I just beat Klaw (standard with Masters of Evil) using Black Panther / Protection in solo play and this was a close one. It was very fun. However, I managed to do it while making a specific tactical choice and I wondered if this was truly legal. I happen think it is, and therefore I haven't "grim ruled" it, but I thought I'd ask here, just in case I have to put an asterisk next to my Win column.

During an encounter while Klaw was Stage I, I happened to reveal The Immortal Klaw side-scheme. I added his 10 hit points as required.

Considering that I was maintaining good control over the main scheme, which was still at 1B, I believed I was able to stomach the increased threat for a while. Therefore, I proceeded to kill Klaw instead of getting rid of his side-scheme.

I managed to do it. When he flipped to Stage II, his text reads: "When Revealed: Search the encounter deck and discard pile for The "Immortal" Klaw and reveal it. Shuffle the encounter deck."

Since the side-scheme was already revealed, I didn't do that, but I did shuffle the encounter deck. I presume this does count as a change in game state.

Now, Klaw II starts at 18 hit points, but since I've already added the +10 from the side scheme earlier, I didn't have to add anything at this point. On my next turn, I thwarted to remove the side-scheme, which made Klaw lose 10 hit points. He was now at 8 hit points. Which enabled me to kill him on my next turn...

Is that legit? I cannot see why not...

I think you probably should have set his Stage 2 hit points to +10 as well (and then removed them when you removed the side scheme). It’s obviously fine that you can’t put the side scheme into play if it’s already in play. The Rules Reference has an entry on searching the Encounter deck and what happens if you don’t find it.

Yeah, the HP increase would also apply to stage II, making him start at 18P+10.

Alright, I stand corrected. I will replay this. Thanks for your input!

I... don’t know about that? You still ate through the extra 10 HP at one point or another, so I don’t see any reason this is particularly broken—though it happened to work out in your favor.

I don’t have the cards in front of me right now, but I don’t think the wording implied you might have to add the 10 HP a separate time 🤷‍♂️

1 hour ago, SpiderMana said:

I... don’t know about that? You still ate through the extra 10 HP at one point or another, so I don’t see any reason this is particularly broken—though it happened to work out in your favor.

I don’t have the cards in front of me right now, but I don’t think the wording implied you might have to add the 10 HP a separate time 🤷‍♂️

Klaw schemes for 2, the immortal is an acceleration token, and the first main scheme is 6; you have a 1/3 chance of automatic progress to the second stage (8 threat), and stage III Klaw (schemes for 3) would have a 1/10 chance of instantly winning on a scheme turn while the side scheme is out.

That being said, the RRG seems to suggest side schemes don’t carry over between villain stages, as they aren’t called out as carrying over.

VILLAIN DEFEAT
If the villain’s hit point dial is reduced to zero, the players have defeated that stage of the villain.
Remove the current stage of the villain deck from the game. The next sequential stage of the villain deck is revealed. Set the villain’s hit point dial as indicated by that stage.
If the final stage of the villain deck is defeated, the players win the game.
• Excess damage that is dealt to defeat a villain stage does not carry over to the new stage.
• Attachments, status cards, counters, and non- damage tokens on a villain carry over to the new stage.

edit: although the side scheme entry says they remain in play until:

• A side scheme remains in play until there is no threat on it (which causes it to be defeated and discarded), or until a card ability removes it from play. (Threat can be removed from side schemes by using the thwart power of heroes and allies, or by using card abilities.)

So, I’m inclined to say this works, but is too risky to be plausibly “worth it”

2 hours ago, Derrault said:

So, I’m inclined to say this works, but is too risky to be plausibly “worth it”

I'm not saying this should always be the right course, but I did make the call based on a situation during my game which had the odds in my favour at that particular time.

I've been thinking about this all evening and to be honest I've been waffling back and forth even after letting myself be convinced that it was the wrong play.

The side-scheme does not say "When Revealed" -- which would categorically give +10 only once -- but if I add the 10 hit points to the next villain stage, the side scheme ends up adding +20 overall. This feels wrong.

3 hours ago, Ascarel said:

I'm not saying this should always be the right course, but I did make the call based on a situation during my game which had the odds in my favour at that particular time.

I've been thinking about this all evening and to be honest I've been waffling back and forth even after letting myself be convinced that it was the wrong play.

The side-scheme does not say "When Revealed" -- which would categorically give +10 only once -- but if I add the 10 hit points to the next villain stage, the side scheme ends up adding +20 overall. This feels wrong.

It only gives him plus 20 if you chew through the first 10 without removing it, which is possible, and an option, but not your only option. While it’s out, the Villain has +10 hit points. Each Stage of the Villain is essentially another villain (that keeps the effects listed above. Klaw II should still have an extra 10 hit points while it’s in play.

8 hours ago, FearLord said:

It only gives him plus 20 if you chew through the first 10 without removing it, which is possible, and an option, but not your only option. While it’s out, the Villain has +10 hit points. Each Stage of the Villain is essentially another villain (that keeps the effects listed above. Klaw II should still have an extra 10 hit points while it’s in play.

I like your reasoning.

Alright, I agree with that reasoning as well. In any case, earlier today I faced him again with the same encounter deck. I beat him fair and square this time, so Klaw and I are even now. 😋

You played it right.

3 hours ago, i_has_a_flavour said:

You played it right.

Wow, you're right. I'm deeply swayed by your reasoning.