1 hour ago, Frimmel said:

We've got a bunch of folks in this thread saying the YASB isn't always their best option. And it seems really poor form on our part to just shrug this off because the app isn't any good. That will only encourage them to give even less of a toss about it.

I consider it done. FFG doesn't give a toss about the app. They'll update slots and points and add ships for the normal formats, because that's easy, but the app is terrible and won't get fixed. Move on. Use YASB or Launch Bay Next, because both are better, and both support Epic and have other great features.

17 hours ago, Faerie1979 said:

it's either they don't have a code monkey who can modify the app (and don't want to hire one),

Almost certainly this. The devs of the app are long gone, so now they only have the option of making minor database edits.

** coming from someone in IT making a conclusion based on evidence available to the public plus applying knowledge of how things would likely be set up/changed in the app (ie, no extra insider knowledge beyond profession choice )

7 hours ago, Faerie1979 said:

Because YASB's user interface isn't as good on a touch screen as the official app. Nor can it be used when you don't have internet access.

The official app works without internet? News to me....

7 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

The official app works without internet? News to me....

It does for me. My tablet is not authorised for the local game store's wi-fi. But I can use the official app while at the local game store. Can't update it there or access saved lists, but can open it up and make a list.

13 hours ago, XPav said:

I consider it done. FFG doesn't give a toss about the app. They'll update slots and points and add ships for the normal formats, because that's easy, but the app is terrible and won't get fixed. Move on. Use YASB or Launch Bay Next, because both are better, and both support Epic and have other great features.

What if those guys quit? Or have to quit? What if they get bent out of shape and decide they alone will be the arbiters of the point values and upgrade slots? Maybe just decide to troll everyone for a bit with random changes? Stuff disappears all over the net all the time when someone says the wrong thing or some program flags content as infringing.

M aintaining the app is not the job of the customers. This is just more corporate welfare.

Have they announced there will be NO EPIC support on the app?

42 minutes ago, Explorator88 said:

Have they announced there will be NO EPIC support on the app?

Yes. I shared a link to a twitter post from FFG stating the same.

3 hours ago, Explorator88 said:

Have they announced there will be NO EPIC support on the app?

As noted there is a link to a Twitter post about page three I think.

I would note though it is not a front page of FFG Twitter post and if you do not have a Twitter account you need to follow a link to see it (if I am understanding Twitter correctly.) There is no front page news here about it. To the best of my knowledge it was not included in any of the Epic preview articles. It is not a "state secret" but they have not shouted it from the rooftops either. It is mostly under the radar depending on whether you use the official squad-builder.

I live in the (faint and probably vain) hope that one of these days an update will drop for the official app which includes Huge ships and Epic format. Not that I expect it to happen. But hope springs eternal.

5 hours ago, Frimmel said:

What if those guys quit? Or have to quit? What if they get bent out of shape and decide they alone will be the arbiters of the point values and upgrade slots? Maybe just decide to troll everyone for a bit with random changes? Stuff disappears all over the net all the time when someone says the wrong thing or some program flags content as infringing.

You know what? We'll totally be ok! Because YASB 2.0 is open source! Under the MIT license!

https://github.com/geordanr/xwing

Here, I'll branch it right now just to make sure that when @raithos goes pants-on-head crazy and takes over the community, me, XPav, can take up the mantle! Ok done. Phew, we're saved from the Canadian tyranny.

10 minutes ago, XPav said:

You know what? We'll totally be ok! Because YASB 2.0 is open source! Under the MIT license!

https://github.com/geordanr/xwing

Here, I'll branch it right now just to make sure that when @raithos goes pants-on-head crazy and takes over the community, me, XPav, can take up the mantle! Ok done. Phew, we're saved from the Canadian tyranny.

I did not mean any disparagement of those maintaining the third party apps. Just positing a hypothetical.

And you also bring up the point with your branch that if everyone has an app no one has an app, "A man with one clock always knows what time it is" for example.

That we will be "fine" doesn't make this decision on the part of FFG right. Neither does it not affecting you make it okay to me they have made this decision. It is my prerogative to be bent out of shape even if you are not.

24 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I did not mean any disparagement of those maintaining the third party apps. Just positing a hypothetical.

And you also bring up the point with your branch that if everyone has an app no one has an app, "A man with one clock always knows what time it is" for example.

That we will be "fine" doesn't make this decision on the part of FFG right. Neither does it not affecting you make it okay to me they have made this decision. It is my prerogative to be bent out of shape even if you are not.

I'm getting this impressions that you, and a few other people in this thread, are really looking for FFG to step up and really act as the sole authority through which there is a singular arbiter of all truth in the X-Wing game.

Myself, and others, aren't quite willing to grant FFG full authority over everything. Sure, we buy all their stuff, but the app is bad, they're slow on rulings, they make mistakes, and all sorts of little things that are worked around in various ways so that we can all play the game.

The part where I get cognitive dissonance is that the people that seem to be most bent out of shape about the app and FFG's failings are people playing non-competitive Epic events on their kitchen table, where as people who play competitive are like "yeah, whatever, here's what the rest of us do when FFG falls down".

It's just odd.

12 minutes ago, XPav said:

I'm getting this impressions that you, and a few other people in this thread, are really looking for FFG to step up and really act as the sole authority through which there is a singular arbiter of all truth in the X-Wing game.

Myself, and others, aren't quite willing to grant FFG full authority over everything. Sure, we buy all their stuff, but the app is bad, they're slow on rulings, they make mistakes, and all sorts of little things that are worked around in various ways so that we can all play the game.

The part where I get cognitive dissonance is that the people that seem to be most bent out of shape about the app and FFG's failings are people playing non-competitive Epic events on their kitchen table, where as people who play competitive are like "yeah, whatever, here's what the rest of us do when FFG falls down".

It's just odd.

No, but I would like them to man up and fix then curate the app that they said would be an integral part of the game. I already know one person who doesn't want to use any 3rd party squad builders. It took 3 days of arguing to convince him to use YASB 2.0 to build his list for our upcoming Epic match. He told me after printing off his list that he's not touching YASB 2.0 again, and if an online 3rd party squad builder is the only way to make a list for Epic, then he'll never make a list for Epic again. Or play that format.

I don't doubt there are other people out there with a similar mindset.

Just now, Faerie1979 said:

No, but I would like them to man up and fix then curate the app that they said would be an integral part of the game. I already know one person who doesn't want to use any 3rd party squad builders. It took 3 days of arguing to convince him to use YASB 2.0 to build his list for our upcoming Epic match. He told me after printing off his list that he's not touching YASB 2.0 again, and if an online 3rd party squad builder is the only way to make a list for Epic, then he'll never make a list for Epic again. Or play that format.

I don't doubt there are other people out there with a similar mindset.

FFG isn’t going to fix it.
Your friend is weird and I don’t think there’s a substantial amount of people with that mindset.
These two combined means you need a new person to play Epic with.

2 minutes ago, XPav said:

FFG isn’t going to fix it.
Your friend is weird and I don’t think there’s a substantial amount of people with that mindset.
These two combined means you need a new person to play Epic with.

I don't dispute he's weird. But then again, gamers in general are a rather odd lot. And those of us willing to spend hundreds of dollars on little plastic figures are an especially odd sort. But I think you're underestimating just how common people either refusing to use 3rd party squad builders or not even being aware such a thing exists are. Remember, those of us who spend time on forums like this are a small fraction of the player base. For every person who plays competitively in local and regional tourneys, there's probably a dozen or more who just go down to the local gaming store once in a while or play on their kitchen table with friends/family. And for every person who posts in forums like this, there's probably dozens who (if not hundreds) who don't.

I found out about YASB 2.0 through this forum. But what about the people who never visit the forum? I know about the PDFs because I buy stuff directly from the FFG website due to the local store not stocking what I'm looking for. But what about the people who are unaware that FFG even has a website because they buy all FFG products from brick & mortar stores?

What if they don’t even know about COMPUTERS?

Yes if there are Xwing 2.0 or Epic players that don’t interact with anyone in the community or do a web search they’re going to have a subpar experience.

This is why I make it everyone’s job to tell everyone they know to Just Say Yes To YASB or LBN because they are way better. If they want to keep masochistly banging their head into the wall after that, we’ll, that’s their problem.

In short, I trust in the community more than I trust in FFG on this issue and so should everyone.

39 minutes ago, XPav said:

I'm getting this impressions that you, and a few other people in this thread, are really looking for FFG to step up and really act as the sole authority through which there is a singular arbiter of all truth in the X-Wing game.

Myself, and others, aren't quite willing to grant FFG full authority over everything. Sure, we buy all their stuff, but the app is bad, they're slow on rulings, they make mistakes, and all sorts of little things that are worked around in various ways so that we can all play the game.

The part where I get cognitive dissonance is that the people that seem to be most bent out of shape about the app and FFG's failings are people playing non-competitive Epic events on their kitchen table, where as people who play competitive are like "yeah, whatever, here's what the rest of us do when FFG falls down".

It's just odd.

Part of the point of buying a game is because I do not want to design my own. I want to be able to play with anyone who plays that game without worrying that I am not playing with the same rules as those folks. If there is not a single arbiter then there isn't one game.

Tournament players should be even more out out about the failings of the app.

You undermine your own argument. I made the suggestion that perhaps the third party apps might want to do their own thing and that might cause difficulties. Your response is third party wants to do their own thing.

If there is no ultimate arbiter we can not all play the same game. If there is a single arbiter folks can still do their own thing at their home table.

I was considering Epic. Now I am not.

5 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

Part of the point of buying a game is because I do not want to design my own. I want to be able to play with anyone who plays that game without worrying that I am not playing with the same rules as those folks. If there is not a single arbiter then there isn't one game.

Tournament players should be even more out out about the failings of the app.

You undermine your own argument. I made the suggestion that perhaps the third party apps might want to do their own thing and that might cause difficulties. Your response is third party wants to do their own thing.

If there is no ultimate arbiter we can not all play the same game. If there is a single arbiter folks can still do their own thing at their home table.

I was considering Epic. Now I am not.

Most people: YASB is great and has accurate points and is a great squad builder.

You:

2 minutes ago, XPav said:

What if they don’t even know about COMPUTERS?

Yes if there are Xwing 2.0 or Epic players that don’t interact with anyone in the community or do a web search they’re going to have a subpar experience.

This is why I make it everyone’s job to tell everyone they know to Just Say Yes To YASB or LBN because they are way better. If they want to keep masochistly banging their head into the wall after that, we’ll, that’s their problem.

In short, I trust in the community more than I trust in FFG on this issue and so should everyone.

You are saying don't trust the corporation and yet want to let them off the hook when they are untrustworthy. And it doesn't take a long visit to the rules forum to understand why there needs to be a single arbiter.

I find YASB to just have a different set of things I do not like. I can not use LBN on my tablet. For the failings of the official app it works the same kind of less than ideal on all my devices. I do not like any of them on my phone.

I have to choose between things that do not work that well for me. I place higher value on official. That is not an attack on third party apps nor is it an attack on you. And suggesting I am making claims of heresy is not going to get you very far.

By suggesting I am making claims of heresy you give yourself away. You do not understand why any one is not using third party so do not understand why anyone cares about the official app. You are the one who has been making the claims of heresy at those who do not want to use YASB.

Part of the deal with second edition was the app. FFG is breaking the deal. It is not wrong to call them out for it. Even if you don't use the official app.

5 hours ago, XPav said:

Most people: YASB is great and has accurate points and is a great squad builder.

You:

Best post of the year award goes to @XPav

6 minutes ago, Quack Shot said:

Best post of the year award goes to @XPav

It’s not mine, it’s from Reddit.

YASB is not "great", it's "serviceable". It has it's flaws, just like the official one does. They just have different flaws.

And really, why are people so eager to shout down those of us who want FFG to man up and improve the official app , in addition to adding the Huge ships and Epic format to it like they should have done to begin with?

32 minutes ago, Faerie1979 said:

YASB is not "great", it's "serviceable". It has it's flaws, just like the official one does. They just have different flaws.

And really, why are people so eager to shout down those of us who want FFG to man up and improve the official app , in addition to adding the Huge ships and Epic format to it like they should have done to begin with?

Because it’s not going to happen. FFG isn’t going to update the app beyond easy points and slots.
We aren’t shouting you down, we’re shouting that you’re chasing windmills.

8 hours ago, XPav said:

I'm getting this impressions that you, and a few other people in this thread, are really looking for FFG to step up and really act as the sole authority through which there is a singular arbiter of all truth in the X-Wing game.

This is pretty hilarious.

They own the f**king license.

They ARE the single arbiter of truth in XWM. It's why I want Good Things to be Official. Every thing else is DIY and off label.

By all means, have fun on your own. But your efforts are now just a cheap knock off.

Something occurred to me while recording with the Inland Empire Aces last night, and I might as well share it now before the thread gets locked.

1. FFG says the Epic and Huge points will not make it into the app.
2. Wave 6 is on time except for the ships that have never been in 2.0. They will release in February.
3. The card packs are all releasing soon except Hotshots and Aces, which has pilots new to 2.0. This will release in February.

My little brain, searching for patterns, conjured up this wild hypothesis: what if the contract with the current app developer ends this year, and they are not renewing? What if they are instead opting to produce a new app with a different developer? Anything already in the app is free to release between now and the new year, except for Epic and Huge which are casual so they can reasonably skip adding those to the app. But come next year, the new app will have more functionality and be able to contain all components of the game, including our beloved Epic and Huge.

What do you think? Am I totally crazy?

10 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

What do you think? Am I totally crazy?

Nope.

Makes sense. It's kinda hard to fathom FFG taking a huge dump on epic when they worked so hard to bring it back to the fore.

And I hope you are right.