Wookies are the strongest unit in the game. Git gud son. 🤣 😝

...

I think the real issue is that yes they made droids immune to suppression. But the key drawbacks for that immunity don't count.

• Ion - is rarely taken because it's ****.
• AI - puts constraints on the droids, making them a little worse/harder to control than 'human' armies.

BUT... The designers put in sooooo much stuff that effectively allows you to ignore AI, that it is pretty much pointless!

OH BUT THE B1's are garbage you may say. Yeah but they're 6 points a pop. They are one of the cheapest body bag cheerleader units in the game, that are pretty much only there to add activation control.

The real workhorses of the army will not be B1's. It will be all of the cool **** that we will get outside of corps.

Anyway, my 2c. I for one welcome a new non-human faction, and am keen to rock on with Clone Wars.

1 hour ago, lologrelol said:

• AI - puts constraints on the droids, making them a little worse/harder to control than 'human' armies.

BUT... The designers put in sooooo much stuff that effectively allows you to ignore AI, that it is pretty much pointless!

AI is a really bad drawback. Not being able to Aim or Move beforehand, with such bad shooting, is terrible!

Also, B1 upgrade pack has TWO Personnel focused on dealing with AI, while the other factions have goodies like Training or Gear slots + free action.

16 hours ago, Vector Strike said:

AI is a really bad drawback. Not being able to Aim or Move beforehand, with such bad shooting, is terrible!

Also, B1 upgrade pack has TWO Personnel focused on dealing with AI, while the other factions have goodies like Training or Gear slots + free action.

That's my point.

Why put it in if you're just going to have a tonne of units/upgrades dedicated to undoing it?

Why not just leave it out entirely, and make the 'drawback' (for ignoring suppression) to droids, be they are slightly less good at fighting?

14 minutes ago, lologrelol said:

That's my point.

Why put it in if you're just going to have a tonne of units/upgrades dedicated to undoing it?

Why not just leave it out entirely, and make the 'drawback' (for ignoring suppression) to droids, be they are slightly less good at fighting?

because without that flavor mechanic they are just worse rebels that dont add anything interesting to the game. having to give up your strength of cheap troopers by paying just to get rid of a weakness has its trade offs

1 hour ago, lologrelol said:

That's my point.

Why put it in if you're just going to have a tonne of units/upgrades dedicated to undoing it?

Why not just leave it out entirely, and make the 'drawback' (for ignoring suppression) to droids, be they are slightly less good at fighting?

It's there as a weakness your enemy can exploit. Get up in their face with a Comms Jammer and it will put a serious damper on them. And sure, there are many upgrades that let you ignore it, but those cost points. Points that could be spent on extra units or heavy weapons or something else that more directly helps kill the enemy or capture objectives.

1 hour ago, lologrelol said:

That's my point.

Why put it in if you're just going to have a tonne of units/upgrades dedicated to undoing it?

Why not just leave it out entirely, and make the 'drawback' (for ignoring suppression) to droids, be they are slightly less good at fighting?

There are upgrades to undo Difficult Terrain, Clambering, avoid Suppression for a turn, allow you to re-roll more dice, etc etc.

If you want to have the upgrades to undo any of a units drawbacks, then it costs more points than the base unit which has drawbacks. If you want to take NO upgrades and just run a swarm of naked droids, you can, but then you have to deal with the drawbacks rather than buying them off with upgrades.

On 11/10/2019 at 2:01 AM, lologrelol said:

Wookies are the strongest unit in the game. Git gud son. 🤣 😝

...

I think the real issue is that yes they made droids immune to suppression. But the key drawbacks for that immunity don't count.

• Ion - is rarely taken because it's ****.
• AI - puts constraints on the droids, making them a little worse/harder to control than 'human' armies.

BUT... The designers put in sooooo much stuff that effectively allows you to ignore AI, that it is pretty much pointless!

OH BUT THE B1's are garbage you may say. Yeah but they're 6 points a pop. They are one of the cheapest body bag cheerleader units in the game, that are pretty much only there to add activation control.

The real workhorses of the army will not be B1's. It will be all of the cool **** that we will get outside of corps.

Anyway, my 2c. I for one welcome a new non-human faction, and am keen to rock on with Clone Wars.

So you’re saying B1s are OP, or at the very least they’re too efficient because they get two actions per round regardless of Suppression, but the mechanic that forces their actions to be in the worst order is somehow pointless. You’re now disproving both your points. The droids may get two actions per round, but if a single unit in their Coordinate chain is lost (really easy to do), then those two actions become garbage or pointless as they no longer benefit by having an aim for their attack. In order to keep the Coordinate chain, droid players have to either keep the B1s in the center of the chain away from fire, or they must double up units in that area (to honeycomb in a sense) so that the chain isn’t lost if a central unit goes down. This is actually an advantage to other players tactically as the periphery of that chain will now be weaker or it forces the droids to operate in a clump (easy pickings for units like Tauntauns or Jedi or even the Emperor). In no way is having to maintain that chain a strength not to mention that if that chain is lost, the two action benefit becomes pointless. And despite any tactics the droid player may use to protect his/her chain, a 5 point upgrade can stop it fast (Comms Jammer).
Also if you’re adding other minis or upgrades to the B1s to circumvent their deficiencies, then their overall cost is no longer 6 points per mini. That means each Security droid or HQ Uplink adds to their overall cost. It won’t be 6 points per mini and if the unit cost as much as a rebel unit, it shouldn’t have the AI drawback, so it’s nice to have the option. Pay a small amount and get a drawback, or pay more and don’t.
And if the real workhorses are going to be other units, so far each one of them has been quite a bit more costly (B2s & Droidekas), so the droids are really going to need some cheap units to offset those costs.

I haven’t mentioned Ion yet, because I agree. The whole tapping issue makes those units not so relevant or useful to include in an army. If vehicles start to make a real showing, that may change, but it remains to be seen.

If you still don’t see that droids are good, but not OP, I don’t think we’ll ever see eye to eye, but I’ll agree to disagree. 😁

8 hours ago, lologrelol said:

That's my point.

Why put it in if you're just going to have a tonne of units/upgrades dedicated to undoing it?

Why not just leave it out entirely, and make the 'drawback' (for ignoring suppression) to droids, be they are slightly less good at fighting?

Yeah but both those new toys exhaust, so it's not undoing anything permanent and it potentially steals actions elsewhere.

If your point were valid, b1's already have the tools to ignore ai (bar 1 unit). It's called electrobinoculars....... but you don't see that stapled to b1's

Heh I don't get the argument about B1s having "bad shooting". Currently they roll 7 whites and either 3 blacks or 2 blacks and 1 red. That's roughly 3 hits and isn't far behind rebel troopers. If they get a surge token and/or aim they become beastly. I play against a separatist player regularly and 5-6 hits from a single b1 squad hardly surprise me anymore.

Anyway, suppression immunity is certainly a strength of the faction. It's hard to stop rogers from getting those objectives since you have to physically eliminate them or at least tiem them up in melee to do so. They don't feel overpowered though and AI can be a very serious vulnerability if their formation is disrupted or is forced to split up.

6 hours ago, Lightrock said:

Currently they roll 7 whites and either 3 blacks or 2 blacks and 1 red. That's roughly 3 hits and isn't far behind rebel troopers.

The rocket launcher has exhaust, and a savvy opponent can force a unit with that weapon to fire only that weapon with clever placement. If the weapon is exhausted, then AI attack can remove the possibility of using it in a turn as the first action has to be Attack.

3 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

The rocket launcher has exhaust, and a savvy opponent can force a unit with that weapon to fire only that weapon with clever placement. If the weapon is exhausted, then AI attack can remove the possibility of using it in a turn as the first action has to be Attack.

If you're running the rocket lawnchair on the B1s, then you're running HQ uplink on the same unit. Overall, it's a bad idea to not have at least two of those in your B1s somewhere in order to ensure almost perfect activation control.

1 hour ago, thepopemobile100 said:

If you're running the rocket lawnchair.......

Aaaaaaaand there's where I lost it! LOL!