13 hours ago, buckero0 said:

There's way more to draw from in scum and mercenaries than there will ever be in FO and Resistance. I would say that as a whole the idea of a scum faction is more embedded in the fabric of the star Wars universe than anything the new movies have shown up to this point. That's just one reason they're making a Mandalorian show and not a Finn and Rey show

Facetious reasoning... why bother making rebels, republic, empire and separatists? They are just a sliver of the universe after all..

Look, I get that people don't want the sequel stuff (I do), and that people like all the scummy goodness, but I absolutely don't want a scum faction if it turns into a catch all for everything that wouldn't normally fit elsewhere.

Probably not within the next ~5 years.

I think you're more likely to see Sequel factions and the developers have said NO to the sequel factions right now.

There just isn't enough content to make scum a faction that can sell models. I get they have a few units here and there, but they will need a full roster of units.

39 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

There just isn't enough content to make scum a faction that can sell models. I get they have a few units here and there, but they will need a full roster of units.

I disagree, i think the Hutts have plenty of units that would sell well. They could have a heavy Rancor, the Bounty Hunters would sell well too. I imagine any corp unit that has a bunch of aliens would sell well also.

13 minutes ago, jcmonson said:

I disagree, i think the Hutts have plenty of units that would sell well. They could have a heavy Rancor, the Bounty Hunters would sell well too. I imagine any corp unit that has a bunch of aliens would sell well also.

Give me a list. A full fleshy out list of the models that they could offer.

5 Commanders

3 Operatives

3 Corps

4 Special Forces

2 Support

2 Heavy Support.

If you can't fill all of these slots with units that are someone recognizable to the average buyer, then I doubt we'll be seeing the faction anytime soon.

35 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

Give me a list. A full fleshy out list of the models that they could offer.

5 Commanders

3 Operatives

3 Corps

4 Special Forces

2 Support

2 Heavy Support.

If you can't fill all of these slots with units that are someone recognizable to the average buyer, then I doubt we'll be seeing the faction anytime soon.

I don't think that they need those numbers to create a fully fleshed out list, here is what I can come up with off the top of my head.

Commander: Jabba the Hutt, Bib fortuna, (There are other Hutts seen in the comics and other sources that could fill in some other commanders, I'm just trying to go off of the things seen in the original trilogy)

Operative: Boba Fett, Bosk, Dengar, IG88, all of the other ESB bounty hunters

Corps: Hutt cartel thugs, Pirates, smugglers( you can pick and chose what modles you want to use from Jabbas palace/sail barge for these)

Special forces: Gamorean Guards, Bounty Hunter( you could take people from Jabas scene in A new Hope for these)

Support: Heavy blaster Cannon (crew mounted cannon on the back of the sailbarge that Leia uses to destroy the barge), swoop gang (swoops are seen in the special edition of A new Hope)

Heavy: Rancor, Sand skiff

Edit:i also don't think it will be soon, but there is enough material to use

I and several others have already fleshed out a scum/merc Faction in several other posts. My point is that scum mercs bounty hunters whatever have way more written, filmed, drawn, action figured, spoken whatever than all the other factions and way more than the sequels. This has nothing to do with whether you like the new trilogy or not. This is just facts. It has nothing to do with whether you prefer it over some other. Look at previous FFG games even (specifically Imp Assault and X Wing and Outer Rim) look at the comics, cartoons, books, films and now the tv series.

Jabba, Dryden Vos, Hondo, Maul, Xizor, Amorzigan, and several commanders from the comics cartoons video games etc.

Operatives: 30+ bounty hunters from several eras

Troops from same sources

Literally mountains of stuff to draw from

I and several others have already fleshed out a scum/merc Faction in several other posts. My point is that scum mercs bounty hunters whatever have way more written, filmed, drawn, action figured, spoken whatever than all the other factions and way more than the sequels. This has nothing to do with whether you like the new trilogy or not. This is just facts. It has nothing to do with whether you prefer it over some other. Look at previous FFG games even (specifically Imp Assault and X Wing and Outer Rim) look at the comics, cartoons, books, films and now the tv series.

Jabba, Dryden Vos, Hondo, Maul, Xizor,

1 hour ago, R3dReVenge said:

Give me a list. A full fleshy out list of the models that they could offer.

5 Commanders

3 Operatives

3 Corps

4 Special Forces

2 Support

2 Heavy Support.

If you can't fill all of these slots with units that are someone recognizable to the average buyer, then I doubt we'll be seeing the faction anytime soon.

Other than Slave I, what scum ships were recognizable to the average buyer before they were added in X-Wing?

5 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

Other than Slave I, what scum ships were recognizable to the average buyer before they were added in X-Wing?

Both Legion and X-wing are completely different games. How many x-wing ships do you need for a list?

How about legion?

It's very easy to convince someone to buy 1 or 2 products that they haven't seen than 10+.

44 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

Both Legion and X-wing are completely different games. How many x-wing ships do you need for a list?

How about legion?

It's very easy to convince someone to buy 1 or 2 products that they haven't seen than 10+.

3 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

Give me a list. A full fleshy out list of the models that they could offer.

5 Commanders

3 Operatives

3 Corps

4 Special Forces

2 Support

2 Heavy Support.

If you can't fill all of these slots with units that are someone recognizable to the average buyer, then I doubt we'll be seeing the faction anytime soon.

Really I think the big two question for Scum is how diverse the forces will be and how deep they want to go with Canon. Not everybody is super hardcore into comics and books, so they will have to a careful balance. Armada and X-wing took anything they could find and are now using ships from canon books (yaa starhawk!!!), but their is a good argument that Legion is its own thing.

The Clone Wars did a lot with Scum and many people seem to really like that show so I bet they will focus on that. And we all guess they will take a crap ton from the Mandorian/Obi-Wan series and I would not be surprised if those shows are hits and they push out this faction faster. So just from the bigger sources we can get:

Commander: Mother Talzan, Maul, Jabba, Hando, and Moff Gideon (yaa Gus from Breaking Bad!!!)

Operative: Bounty hunters really easy one to fill lol

Corps: Hutt, Pyke, Crimson Dawn, Black Sun, warlord stormtroopers

Special: Death watch, nightsisters or maybe nightsister zombies

Support: Cloud-Riders

heavy: Rancor (seems like something they would rush out asap) and I have seen a Scum version of an AT-ST floating about in leaks from the Mandorian

Not bad for a quick list just pulling from the movies and TV shows. Throw in the comics which have their own crazy characters like Doctor Aphra or Grakkus the Hutt and his pet Roggwart and you can get some pretty cool looking units that are decently familiar to audiences.

I say....why not. There is enough material and looks like enough support. As long as FFG can make money on it, I say...do it

5 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

Give me a list. A full fleshy out list of the models that they could offer.

5 Commanders

3 Operatives

3 Corps

4 Special Forces

2 Support

2 Heavy Support.

If you can't fill all of these slots with units that are someone recognizable to the average buyer, then I doubt we'll be seeing the faction anytime soon.

Are you being serious right now? An underworld faction would have more diversity than any of the other existing factions.

Commanders, 5? Please: Jabba, Bibb Fortuna, Dryden Voss, Old man Maul, Boba Fett (commander variant. Don't argue, he is shown leading teams plenty), Hondo, Azmorrigan, Vizhago, Enfys Nest (could be multi-faction with rebels), Beckett, Lady Proxima, Quay Tolsite. All of these have appeared in Major movies, Clone Wars, or Rebels. Don't have to dig deep at all. Also, not including the Mandalorian characters (there was already justification for a Scum faction before it was ever announced.

Operatives: Dengar, Boba (Dual Faction), 4-LOM, Zuckuss, Cad Bane, Young Lando, Young Han, Less old Chewie, Doctor Evazan/Ponda Baba counterparts, L3, Qi'ra. Again, even if you just used ESB there are more than enough operatives.

Corps: You can go one of two ways with corps subfaction based or generic baddies. I like the idea of generic personally. They fit in any themed subfaction.:

-Thugs (Cantina dudes with pistols and vibroknives, mostly humans in civilian clothes with some Duros, Rodians or Aqualish mixed in)

-Pirates (body armor, rifles, vibro-swords. Mainly weequay and Nikto, Jabba's barge types)

-Crimson dawn troopers (armored with rifles, could be a pathfinder analog)

-Pyke Syndicate Troopers: (With a heavy weapon detachment, Veteran/Shoretrooper Analog)

-Trandoshan Slavers, Ugnaught saboteurs, Cloud city wing guard, Hondo's pirates... So many options

Special Forces

-Mandalorian Mercenaries/Deathwatch: Could be similar to B2s

-Bounty hunters: Well kitted and armored humans and aliens maybe a scout/pathfinder analog

-Gammorean Warriors: Vibro Axes. Wookie/RG analog

-IG-RM Thug droids: Droid unit for another faction

-Crimson Dawn and Pyke Syndicate could go in this slot as well

Support

-Swoop Bike Gangers (Speeder bikes with no main gun, group of three, riders armed with pistols)

-Any of the huge variety of emplacement weapons in the star wars universe. If you need a specific one, you could have Trandoshan slavers crewing a quad cannon.

-Cloud riders

Heavies

-Skiff (open transport with deck gun)

-Hovertank (hard hitter with weapon mount options)

-Rancor (self explanatory)

So. I didn't have to dig into comics, video games or unreleased media and I was able to fill all the slots with extras to spare. This was all off the top of my head. With the mandalorian coming out and a huge variety of other media out there, This would be an incredibly easy faction to build. If they stick with fairly generic corps, your choices of heavies, support and specials will define your subfaction. No subfaction rules necessary for the same reason that we don't need subfactions in the other armies. Boba and Crimson dawn working together is far far far more likely than the emperor personally leading Boba Fett, Shoretroopers and snowtroopers on a mission to destroy moisture vaporators... If you want a thematic force, paint crimson dawn symbols, or pyke syndicate symbols or Hutt symbols on your troops.

-

Maybe as support more Monsters like Reek, Akklay or Nexu! Maybe a beastmaster to!

Ala Rancor Keeper. I like it!

3 hours ago, Chrisael said:

Maybe as support more Monsters like Reek, Akklay or Nexu! Maybe a beastmaster to!

But going by the movies, wouldn't that make sense to be Seperatist? Specifically as an attachment to a Geonosian picador?

12 hours ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

Are you being serious right now? An underworld faction would have more diversity than any of the other existing factions.

Commanders, 5? Please: Jabba, Bibb Fortuna, Dryden Voss, Old man Maul, Boba Fett (commander variant. Don't argue, he is shown leading teams plenty), Hondo, Azmorrigan, Vizhago, Enfys Nest (could be multi-faction with rebels), Beckett, Lady Proxima, Quay Tolsite. All of these have appeared in Major movies, Clone Wars, or Rebels. Don't have to dig deep at all. Also, not including the Mandalorian characters (there was already justification for a Scum faction before it was ever announced.

Operatives: Dengar, Boba (Dual Faction), 4-LOM, Zuckuss, Cad Bane, Young Lando, Young Han, Less old Chewie, Doctor Evazan/Ponda Baba counterparts, L3, Qi'ra. Again, even if you just used ESB there are more than enough operatives.

Corps: You can go one of two ways with corps subfaction based or generic baddies. I like the idea of generic personally. They fit in any themed subfaction.:

-Thugs (Cantina dudes with pistols and vibroknives, mostly humans in civilian clothes with some Duros, Rodians or Aqualish mixed in)

-Pirates (body armor, rifles, vibro-swords. Mainly weequay and Nikto, Jabba's barge types)

-Crimson dawn troopers (armored with rifles, could be a pathfinder analog)

-Pyke Syndicate Troopers: (With a heavy weapon detachment, Veteran/Shoretrooper Analog)

-Trandoshan Slavers, Ugnaught saboteurs, Cloud city wing guard, Hondo's pirates... So many options

Special Forces

-Mandalorian Mercenaries/Deathwatch: Could be similar to B2s

-Bounty hunters: Well kitted and armored humans and aliens maybe a scout/pathfinder analog

-Gammorean Warriors: Vibro Axes. Wookie/RG analog

-IG-RM Thug droids: Droid unit for another faction

-Crimson Dawn and Pyke Syndicate could go in this slot as well

Support

-Swoop Bike Gangers (Speeder bikes with no main gun, group of three, riders armed with pistols)

-Any of the huge variety of emplacement weapons in the star wars universe. If you need a specific one, you could have Trandoshan slavers crewing a quad cannon.

-Cloud riders

Heavies

-Skiff (open transport with deck gun)

-Hovertank (hard hitter with weapon mount options)

-Rancor (self explanatory)

So. I didn't have to dig into comics, video games or unreleased media and I was able to fill all the slots with extras to spare. This was all off the top of my head. With the mandalorian coming out and a huge variety of other media out there, This would be an incredibly easy faction to build. If they stick with fairly generic corps, your choices of heavies, support and specials will define your subfaction. No subfaction rules necessary for the same reason that we don't need subfactions in the other armies. Boba and Crimson dawn working together is far far far more likely than the emperor personally leading Boba Fett, Shoretroopers and snowtroopers on a mission to destroy moisture vaporators... If you want a thematic force, paint crimson dawn symbols, or pyke syndicate symbols or Hutt symbols on your troops.

-

While these options may seem "no-brainer" or "obvious" to you, they aren't to people who aren't hardcore fans. For instance, I've seen every Star Wars movie multiple times (I even read up on some lore) and most of the stuff you mention, I haven't seen anywhere. I bolded the options for you.

I think the other problem we run into is FFG isn't going to release a new faction unless there is another faction counterpart to package together in a core set. Who else would complement the Scum faction.

So you're unfamiliar with the ESB bounty hunters?

44 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

But going by the movies, wouldn't that make sense to be Seperatist? Specifically as an attachment to a Geonosian picador?

No Problem with that, mainly (is this the right word in english?) the minis will be available! : D

1 hour ago, R3dReVenge said:

While these options may seem "no-brainer" or "obvious" to you, they aren't to people who aren't hardcore fans. For instance, I've seen every Star Wars movie multiple times (I even read up on some lore) and most of the stuff you mention, I haven't seen anywhere. I bolded the options for you.

I think the other problem we run into is FFG isn't going to release a new faction unless there is another faction counterpart to package together in a core set. Who else would complement the Scum faction.

Why do they need a sixth faction to "complement" the scum? X-wing has an odd number of factions, and here they can just have CW and GCW releases spaced out with new cards at the same time. They could release a half starter like they did for Runewars, or even skip the starter entirely.

From the films, I'm sure you'd probably recognize them if you saw them

Bibb Fortuna is Jabba's majordomo, the Twi'lek that Luke mind tricks (RotJ).

Gammorean Warriors are the pig looking thugs with axe in Jabba's palace (RotJ).

Enfys Nest is the leader of the "bandits" (called Cloud Riders) who among other things, try to rob a hover train at the same time as Han (Solo).

Zuckuss is one of the bounty hunters hired to track the Falcon (ESB).

Beckett is Solo's mentor, Qi'ra is his love interest, and L3-3T is Lando's droid companion/navigator (Solo).

Lady Proxima is the crime boss that "owns" Han and Qi'ra at the beginning of the film (Solo).

Doctor Evazan/Ponda Baba are the two thugs who hassle Luke in Tatooine cantina, costing Ponda an arm (ANH).

The Pyke Syndicate is the criminal organization on Kessel (and other places, but Kessel is the only branch in a film afaik) that Han and the gang steal from (Solo).

Quay Tolsite is the Pyke Syndicate administrator overseeing the operations on Kessel (Solo).

Trandoshan is a race of lizard people, one of whom is Bossk (Trandoshans as slavers are seen more in the cartoons, but ESB for the race).

IG-RM droids are a similar model of droid to IG-88, the droid bounty hunter in Empire (more examples are in the cartoons, first example is ESB).

Skiff is a name for the vehicle used to transport Han, Chewie, Luke, and Lando to the Sarlacc pit (RotJ).

Mandalorian is the name of a people who originated the style of armour Boba Fett wears (arguable ESB).

As far as I'm aware, the rest are mostly from the cartoon shows, either Clone Wars or Rebels.

11 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Why do they need a sixth faction to "complement" the scum? X-wing has an odd number of factions, and here they can just have CW and GCW releases spaced out with new cards at the same time. They could release a half starter like they did for Runewars, or even skip the starter entirely.

From the films, I'm sure you'd probably recognize them if you saw them

Remember, you only need a few ships to play X-wing. In Legion, you need several units and you need to make several purchases.

From a business perspective, the best way to get people into playing a new faction is to release them in a core set. Think about it. How many core sets have you bought? It's the best way to begin selling new models. And if people lose interest in playing the game, they've already spent a large sum of money on a few core set purchases. It just makes sense.

15 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Bibb Fortuna is Jabba's majordomo, the Twi'lek that Luke mind tricks (RotJ).

Gammorean Warriors are the pig looking thugs with axe in Jabba's palace (RotJ).

Enfys Nest is the leader of the "bandits" (called Cloud Riders) who among other things, try to rob a hover train at the same time as Han (Solo).

Zuckuss is one of the bounty hunters hired to track the Falcon (ESB).

Beckett is Solo's mentor, Qi'ra is his love interest, and L3-3T is Lando's droid companion/navigator (Solo).

Lady Proxima is the crime boss that "owns" Han and Qi'ra at the beginning of the film (Solo).

Doctor Evazan/Ponda Baba are the two thugs who hassle Luke in Tatooine cantina, costing Ponda an arm (ANH).

The Pyke Syndicate is the criminal organization on Kessel (and other places) that Han and the gang steal from (Solo).

Quay Tolsite is the Pyke Syndicate administrator overseeing the operations on Kessel (Solo).

Trandoshan is a race of lizard people, one of whom is Bossk (Trandoshans as slavers are seen more in the cartoons, but ESB for the race).

IG-RM droids are a similar model of droid to IG-88, the droid bounty hunter in Empire (more examples are in the cartoons, first example is ESB).

Skiff is a name for the vehicle used to transport Han, Chewie, Luke, and Lando to the Sarlacc pit (RotJ).

Mandalorian is the name of a people who originated the style of armour Boba Fett wears (arguable ESB).

As far as I'm aware, the rest are mostly from the cartoon shows, either Clone Wars or Rebels.

Most likely, I would recognize most of these. But the fact that I can't based off a name is a red flag.

I get that it can be frustrating when someone says that the thing you like will not be implented into the game that you play. Which is why I expected to see backlash. But I'm making the same arguments that I made when we discussed "will the sequels get into the game." It just doesn't make sense from a business perspective. Lots of holes and hurdles to cross with lots of risk and little payoff.

Who knows though. If they begin to flesh out this faction in the Obi Wan movie (through Crimson Dawn?), we might see it. But I think it's unlikely within the next `~5 years.

Oh yes, Enfys Nest would be a great mini! I want her badly!

Just now, R3dReVenge said:

Who knows though. If they begin to flesh out this faction in the Obi Wan movie (through Crimson Dawn?), we might see it. But I think it's unlikely within the next `~5 years.

There will be no Obi Wan Movie, there will be a Obi Wan Show on Disney+ in 2020 or 2021!

Just now, R3dReVenge said:

Remember, you only need a few ships to play X-wing. In Legion, you need several units and you need to make several purchases.

From a business perspective, the best way to get people into playing a new faction is to release them in a core set. Think about it. How many core sets have you bought? It's the best way to begin selling new models. And if people lose interest in playing the game, they've already spent a large sum of money on a few core set purchases. It just makes sense.

In X-wing V1, you needed significantly more than a "few ships" to play X-wing competitively, you had to buy everything that came out, or at least the upgrade cards. I haven't kept up with V2, so I don't know how vital the newer ships/upgrades are to keeping a list competitive.

So do a half core set to start the faction, similar to this product from Runewars: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/11/24/summoning-ceremonies/, which is what I said was also an option. Basically, a core starter with half the models and therefore at a lower price point. It may not be quite as good of a deal as a full starter for miniatures in box, but it could also include "Crime faction" unit cards for Boba Fett, Bossk, or any other currently existing unit that can now do double duty, similar to the initial "Scum and Villainy" starter from X-wing v1.

Quote

Most likely, I would recognize most of these. But the fact that I can't based off a name is a red flag.

I get that it can be frustrating when someone says that the thing you like will not be implented into the game that you play. Which is why I expected to see backlash. But I'm making the same arguments that I made when we discussed "will the sequels get into the game." It just doesn't make sense from a business perspective. Lots of holes and hurdles to cross with lots of risk and little payoff.

Who knows though. If they begin to flesh out this faction in the Obi Wan movie (through Crimson Dawn?), we might see it. But I think it's unlikely within the next `~5 years.

Did you recognize Bossk from name alone, or did looking a picture of the miniature make you go "Right! That guy!"? The name isn't the only way the miniature is marketed, many people wouldn't necessary know what an "Imperial Guard" is, but show them the front box art and they might remember them as the guys guarding Palpatine.

You are also choosing to dismiss the cartoons as a source of materials, focusing only on the movies. The cartoons are mainstream and fairly popular, so marketing miniatures based on that is still a good idea. I expect we will start to see more and more things from the cartoons/comics as FFG continues to flesh out the Clone Wars factions.

I don't care if theyre a catch all faction, I just want to see the main underworld characters being made at some point. Whether they are their own thing, or just add ons for existing factions doesnt bother me. Also would prefer one umbrella non aligned group. Luke and Jyn Erso on a battlefield is more jarring to me than Woody Harrelson and some Mandalorians. I can live with it.

Scum doesn't really excite me at all, so I personally wouldn't be buying them. That said as long as someone would enjoy having them in the game, then they're worthwhile to add in.