Looks to be a clarification update. most of the highlighted stuff is the same as the one from last week.

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/93/da/93daf87a-d914-4306-aa28-e58ed14e60c6/b_swzrulesreference_v106_book-compressed.pdf

Things of note that I spotted:

In the Force Charges section on page 8 this has been added:

◊ If a ship has multiple sources of recurring , the recurring values do not stack. During the End Phase, each ship with a Force capacity recovers a number of equal the highest number of recurring symbols among the cards that grant it a Force capacity. For example, if a ship with a Force capacity of "0" has two cards that each grant it a Force capacity of "+1" and have one recurring symbol each, that ship has a Force capacity of "2," but recovers only one during the End Phase.

And in the Bonus Attacks portion of the Huge ship appendix (page 30, addition Bolded with context copied alongside):

• A huge ship can use each “Bonus Attack:” or “Attack:” header only once per round.

Might be other changes, happy hunting.

The only other ones I found was an adjustment to shield charges recurring description.

This rule

Quote

During the End Phase, each ship with a shield capacity recovers only a number of equal to the recurring charge symbols on its ship card, regardless of the number of recurring charge symbols that appear on its upgrade cards.

Was changed to read like this

Quote

During the End Phase, each ship with a shield capacity recovers a number of equal the number of recurring symbols on its ship card (only huge ships have recurring symbols, see Appendix: Huge Ships).

Also, the word "the" was removed from this sentence, but I don't think that was intentional or at least not significant.

Quote

While measuring range for abilities that do not specify the attack range, the range between the attacker and the defender is measured from the closest point of the attacker to the closest point of the defender, ignoring the attack arc.

I cant find an explanation of how many squad points we can use for an epic list in any of the new rules documents. Have i missed it or have they not told us yet?

50 minutes ago, SILENT FURY said:

I cant find an explanation of how many squad points we can use for an epic list in any of the new rules documents. Have i missed it or have they not told us yet?

It depends on the scenario (which'll be in the Epic Rulebook, whenever that finally comes out), what you and your opponent agree upon, or what the event organizer specifies.

1 hour ago, SILENT FURY said:

I cant find an explanation of how many squad points we can use for an epic list in any of the new rules documents. Have i missed it or have they not told us yet?

The closest thing I could find was in the Epic Battles Rules Reference under Epic Event Guidance

Quote

SQUADRON REQUIREMENTS
When running an Epic event, event organizers are encouraged to apply certain requirements to all players' squadrons to create a thematic and fun game experience. The following is an example set of requirements that event organizers can use.

• Each squadron must include at least 1 huge ship or wing.
• Each squadron can spend a maximum of half its available squad points (or threat), rounded up, on huge ships and their equipped upgrades (e.g. if the squad limit is 500 points, or 20 threat, up to 250 points or 10 threat can be spent on huge ships and their upgrades).

Organizers can alter these requirements or add their own requirements at their discretion to create flavorful narrative events. Any requirements an event organizer intends to apply should be communicated clearly in advance to all players.

It doesn't give the number of points, aside from the example of 500 points, but it does layout some rules for Huge Ships / Wings.

I was hoping there was going to be a more definitive starting point for standard epic games not just hypothetical numbers or just the scenarios. I never got a chance to play epic in 1st edition, so would you say 500pts would be a good comparison or would 300 be a better place to start.

1 hour ago, SILENT FURY said:

I was hoping there was going to be a more definitive starting point for standard epic games not just hypothetical numbers or just the scenarios. I never got a chance to play epic in 1st edition, so would you say 500pts would be a good comparison or would 300 be a better place to start.

By comparison, a "standard" First Edition Epic game was TRIPLE the size of a standard game (300 points versus 100), along with certain requirements and restrictions (must include at least 1 epic ship, etc). By that example, a Second Edition Epic game would probably be best balanced at that 500 point level. Given that the beefiest epic ships cost close to 150 points (likely close to 200 after upgrades), most truly "Epic" games will need to be somewhere in the 400-600 range, for proper game balance between huge ships and standard ships.

That said, a smaller event (300-400 points) would probably be a better place to start out, just to get the feel of Epic movement. The game has a very different feel, with these monstrous capital ships unleashing ridiculous amounts of firepower on the table, than it does in a standard 200 v 200 skirmish.

Thanks that helps alot

On 11/7/2019 at 3:57 PM, Hiemfire said:

Looks to be a clarification update. most of the highlighted stuff is the same as the one from last week.

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/93/da/93daf87a-d914-4306-aa28-e58ed14e60c6/b_swzrulesreference_v106_book-compressed.pdf

Things of note that I spotted:

In the Force Charges section on page 8 this has been added:

◊ If a ship has multiple sources of recurring , the recurring values do not stack. During the End Phase, each ship with a Force capacity recovers a number of equal the highest number of recurring symbols among the cards that grant it a Force capacity. For example, if a ship with a Force capacity of "0" has two cards that each grant it a Force capacity of "+1" and have one recurring symbol each, that ship has a Force capacity of "2," but recovers only one during the End Phase.

And in the Bonus Attacks portion of the Huge ship appendix (page 30, addition Bolded with context copied alongside):

• A huge ship can use each “Bonus Attack:” or “Attack:” header only once per round.

Might be other changes, happy hunting.

Head cold making me feel denser than normal. Does this change mean Vader can recover 3 Force charges in one turn?

44 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Head cold making me feel denser than normal. Does this change mean Vader can recover 3 Force charges in one turn?

Nope, not without Hate and really bad dice. Only 1 Charge per recurring symbol (the little triangle symbol next to the number of charges on the card) from the pilot card or upgrade card that has the highest number of them on the card. Barring an upgrade he can take that has 2 of the recurring symbols for Force Charges on it anyways (doesn't exist currently).

4 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Nope, not without Hate and really bad dice. Only 1 Charge per recurring symbol (the little triangle symbol next to the number of charges on the card) from the pilot card or upgrade card that has the highest number of them on the card. Barring an upgrade he can take that has 2 of the recurring symbols for Force Charges on it anyways (doesn't exist currently).

Thanks!

On 11/7/2019 at 1:57 PM, Hiemfire said:

And in the Bonus Attacks portion of the Huge ship appendix (page 30, addition Bolded with context copied alongside):

• A huge ship can use each “Bonus Attack:” or “Attack:” header only once per round.

So this raises a question re: Cluster Missiles.

Assuming that all other conditions are fully met, does a huge ship equipped with cluster missiles get 1, 2, or 4 attacks? I know which of these I want to be the case (and also which of these I think is most reasonable, which may or may not be the same thing ), but I figured I'd see what the community thinks.

Arguments in favor of each option:

1) After using the Attack header once to make an attack, you cannot use it again to make a bonus attack.

2) The card is creating a virtual 'bonus attack' header which is used for the second attack, which is then expended for the round. The bonus attack only has the basic attributes (range, dice, ordinance) of the attack, and NOT the text which follows the Attack header. One could also argue for 'specific exception to general rule', but if so why not keep going? (On the other hand, this argument seems to do a lot of things that the card does not say to do.)

4) Continuing the 'specific exception' argument, the second and subsequent attacks follow all the same rules as the first attack, which each generate their own bonus attack until you run out of charges.

Cluster Missiles only has one Attack header you can use once.

This Attack includes a Bonus Attack which is not a separat Bonus Attack header. This also means you cannot just spam the Bonus Attack without the normal Attack to ignore the Lock restriction.

On 11/7/2019 at 12:57 PM, Hiemfire said:

A huge ship can use each “Bonus Attack:” or “Attack:” header only once per round.

This has me wondering how this combo would work.

Syndicate Smugglers — C-ROC Cruiser58

Ordnance Tubes2

Corsair Refit15

Cluster Missiles5

Ship Total: 80

Half Points: 40 Threshold: 8

There are two "Bonus Attack:" headers that make use of the cluster missiles in addition to the built in bonus attack of the upgrade.

Is the "Attack:" header on Cluster Missiles applied to the limits, even with the Ord Tubes restricting missiles to being bonus attacks? If so, when?

26 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

This Is the "Attack:" header on Cluster Missiles applied to the limits, even with the Ord Tubes restricting missiles to being bonus attacks? If so, when?

Due to the ruling on Ordnance Tubes you cannot use the Attack header of Cluster Missiles.

You therefore must use the Bonus Attack header printed on Ordnance Tunes to (once) perform the Cluster Missile attack. While doing so you can use the build in bonus attack as usual.

The second Bonus Attack on Ordnance Tubes allows you to perform a torpedo and not a missile attack.

6 minutes ago, Singulativ said:

Due to the ruling on Ordnance Tubes you cannot use the Attack header of Cluster Missiles.

You therefore must use the Bonus Attack header printed on Ordnance Tunes to (once) perform the Cluster Missile attack. While doing so you can use the build in bonus attack as usual.

The second Bonus Attack on Ordnance Tubes allows you to perform a torpedo and not a missile attack.

You're missing the Bonus Attack header on Corsair Refit. That was the second one I was referring to.

40 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

You're missing the Bonus Attack header on Corsair Refit. That was the second one I was referring to.

Ok, with that in mind from the RR p. 30:

[1] A huge ship may perform any number of bonus attacks each round.
[2] A huge ship can use each “Bonus Attack:” or “Attack:” header only once per round.

As per [2] you can perform the Bonus Attack header from Ordnance Tubes and Corsair Refit each once to perform a Cluster Missile attack.

As per [1] during each Cluster Missile attack you may use the included bonus attack.

Interestingly enough only with Corsair Refit equipped you could use the Attack header from Cluster Missiles and then the Bonus Attack header from Corsair Refit to also perform two Cluster Missile attacks (+2 bonus attacks).

31 minutes ago, Singulativ said:

As per [1] during each Cluster Missile attack you may use the included bonus attack.

Yet does the Attack: header on Cluster Missiles still apply when using Cluster Missiles ability? Ordnance Tubes doesn't say "Treat the Attack: headers on your missile and torpedo upgrades as Bonus Attack: headers instead." It says "... perform ... only as bonus attacks.".

17 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Yet does the Attack: header on Cluster Missiles still apply when using Cluster Missiles ability? Ordnance Tubes doesn't say "Treat the Attack: headers on your missile and torpedo upgrades as Bonus Attack: headers instead." It says "... perform ... only as bonus attacks.".

And with the ability of Cluster Missiles I am in fact performing the attack a second time as bonus attack.

On 11/7/2019 at 12:57 PM, Hiemfire said:

A huge ship can use each “Bonus Attack:” or “Attack:” header only once per round.

15 minutes ago, Singulativ said:

And with the ability of Cluster Missiles I am in fact performing the attack a second time as bonus attack.

But can we do so a 4th time? IE: Bonus Attack from Ord Tubes, Cluster's built in bonus attack, Bonus Attack from Corsair, Cluster's bonus attack.

The possible application of the section I quoted also could affect a Cannon armed Corsair C-Roc with IG-88D crew and IG-88B in the squad (possible keep rolling till you hit with your cannon loop).

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

But can we do so a 4th time? IE: Bonus Attack from Ord Tubes, Cluster's built in bonus attack, Bonus Attack from Corsair, Cluster's bonus attack.

The possible application of the section I quoted also could affect a Cannon armed Corsair C-Roc with IG-88D crew and IG-88B in the squad (possible keep rolling till you hit with your cannon loop).

The rule about the Bonus Attack header (Ordnance Tubes and Corsair Refit) and the Bonus Attacks (Cluster Missile ability) are seperated.

The first one you can only do once for each you have, but regular Bonus Attacks like the Cluster Misisoe ability can be used as often as possible by huge ships.

[Ordnance Tubes] Bonus Attack ( usable only once per turn) : Perform a missile attack -> Cluster Missile attack

Bonus Attack by Cluster Missile ability (unlimited for huge ships).

[Corsair Refit] Bonus Attack ( usable only once per turn) : Spend 1 energy to perform a [...] missile attack -> Cluster Missile attack.

Bonus Attack by Cluster Missile ability (unlimited for huge ships).

7 minutes ago, Singulativ said:

The rule about the Bonus Attack header (Ordnance Tubes and Corsair Refit) and the Bonus Attacks (Cluster Missile ability) are seperated.

The first one you can only do once for each you have, but regular Bonus Attacks like the Cluster Misisoe ability can be used as often as possible by huge ships.

[Ordnance Tubes] Bonus Attack ( usable only once per turn) : Perform a missile attack -> Cluster Missile attack

Bonus Attack by Cluster Missile ability (unlimited for huge ships).

[Corsair Refit] Bonus Attack ( usable only once per turn) : Spend 1 energy to perform a [...] missile attack -> Cluster Missile attack.

Bonus Attack by Cluster Missile ability (unlimited for huge ships).

You're lasered in on the wrong part.

On 11/7/2019 at 12:57 PM, Hiemfire said:

or “Attack:” header only once per round.

When this upgrade's bonus attack from its ability is used, does it use the Attack: header?

If so then it can only be used 3 times (2 separate Bonus Attack: header bonus attacks and 1 Attack: header bonus attack).

If not then a Cannon equipped Corsair Refit C-ROC can gain an infinite loop with its Cannon upgrade with these 2 cards added to the list:

on the Corsair C-ROC

In the Squad. Bonus attacks are attacks.

1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

When this upgrade's bonus attack from its ability is used, does it use the Attack: header?

If that would be the case Cluster Missile would not work at all:

„Each ship may perform one attack when it engages during the Engagement Phase.“

The text states to „perform this attack [Attack: Spend 1 charge...] as a bonus attack“.

With Cluster Missiles you therefore perform one „ Attack: Spend 1 charge...“ and one „Bonus Attack: Spend 1 charge...“

19 minutes ago, Singulativ said:

If that would be the case Cluster Missile would not work at all:

„Each ship may perform one attack when it engages during the Engagement Phase.“

The text states to „perform this attack [Attack: Spend 1 charge...] as a bonus attack“.

With Cluster Missiles you therefore perform one „ Attack: Spend 1 charge...“ and one „Bonus Attack: Spend 1 charge...“

🤨 Ummm…. Using that logic, nothing would permit a ship to perform more than one action during its Perform Action step of the Activation phase...

"Perform Action: The ship may perform one action."

Okay, per RR step-by-step:

Cluster Missiles

1. Choose Weapon: The attacking player chooses one of the attacker’s primary or special weapons.
2. Special weapon -> I choose Cluster Missiles
3. Attack (lock): (the Attack header provides my special weapon - the lock is one requirement)
   1. Spend 1 charge. (spending a charge is a further requirement)
   2. Front arc, 3 Attack dice, Range 1-2 (this is the attack I perform)
   3. After this attack, you may perform this attack as a bonus attack against a different target at range 0-1 of the defender, ignoring the lock requirement.
4. Bonus attack after the attack (only one per round for non huge ships):
   1. Spend 1 charge. (same cost requirements except for the lock )
   2. Front arc, 3 Attack dice, Range 1-2 (same 3 dice weapon, same arc requirements and range requirements )

Ordnonance Tubes

1. Choose Weapon: The attacking player chooses one of the attacker’s primary or special weapons.
2. Special weapon -> I choose Ordnonance Tubes
3. Bonus Attack: Perform a missile attack. (the Bonus Attack header provides my special weapon; I can use this one only once)
   1. Missile attack -> I choose Cluster Missiles
   2. (lock) (bonus attacks follow the same requirements, therefore I need a lock)
   3. Spend 1 charge. (spending a charge is a further requirement)
   4. Front arc, 3 Attack dice, Range 1-2 (this is the attack I perform)
   5. After this attack, you may perform this attack as a bonus attack against a different target at range 0-1 of the defender, ignoring the lock requirement.
4. Bonus attack after the attack (unlimited for huge ships):
   1. Spend 1 charge. (same cost requirements except for the lock )
   2. Front arc, 3 Attack dice, Range 1-2 (same 3 dice weapon, same arc requirements and range requirements )