More data. Everything is found in the below link. Player standing are listed on the final page:

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Germany-Norden_Prime_Championship_2019.pdf?token=AWznzxg3zmpbLKeinludl-2Oe_QYMdkvYYVtdQEWuhB7utl4ocjO3JxtEf6ypkoX2lTzDmMEWlowQ3AZT7wrYVMasfv33ttRTYxGBhEsQ0bk6uTLuvNfQm-BrC4EBLXBYCJxhczNh8t_63l-anL7b243mDGxGqK8rto6RkNR2OMriA

Top 5 interesting points:

#1. 3 players took Republic. 3 players took CIS. Highest CIS player ranking was at #12. Highest Republic player ranking was at #15.

#2. Winner of tournament were the Rebels. Once again, no snipers, x3 Tauntauns, but this time more corps. The list was 10 activations.

#3. Sniper teams are still the most taken non-corp unit. 21 (empire only). 7 (rebels only). The second highest most taken unit were the 74-Z speeders at 9 units. WOW.

#4 Leia, Krennic, and Veers all tied for most taken commander at 7 each.

#5 Vehicles still appear to be a non factor. The T-47 continues to be so oppressive.

More to come.

-RR

I would think CIS and GAR are going to struggle as players take time to figure out how best to use them and also of course the needed unit diversity. I would think CIS would play well against snipers, but not so much against tauntauns

1 hour ago, TheHoosh said:

I would think CIS and GAR are going to struggle as players take time to figure out how best to use them and also of course the needed unit diversity.

GAR hopefully should see some improvement with Rex and R2. That should allow GAR to drop BARCs (rip) and get up to 9 activations. i wonder if that would help the faction any, at least offer some more diverse options.

As for CIS meh? I love the faction so far but maybe Dooku and the weapon pack will help spice things up a bit. Really the commander, 6 B1s, and 2 droidakars seem like the mainstay until the tank. I do wonder if Dooku, Grievous, and 6 B1s could work??? \_(ツ)_/

1 hour ago, R3dReVenge said:

#2. Winner of tournament were the Rebels. Once again, no snipers, x3 Tauntauns, but this time more corps. The list was 10 activations.

Will be super interested to see what the average activation count will be for all these wins. Seems like with 4 factions and all the new stuff the best thing to do is take a jack of all trade list with a crap ton of activations. So a step in a right directions with just vehicles being the problem child.

1 hour ago, R3dReVenge said:

#5 Vehicles still appear to be a non factor. The T-47 continues to be so oppressive.

Speaking of vehicles the T-47 lol. The poor thing feels better at 140, but still sort of sucks. It is a pretty funny armor hunter that can't stand up to and take down other heavies. So it is an expensive anti infantry heavy that sort of melts if you get too close with it. I wonder if switching out pierce for blast would have helped more then just a price drop because I do not know what to do with it. I would have loved to watch their test games to see how to run the thing.

1 hour ago, RyantheFett said:

GAR hopefully should see some improvement with Rex and R2. That should allow GAR to drop BARCs (rip) and get up to 9 activations. i wonder if that would help the faction any, at least offer some more diverse options.

As for CIS meh? I love the faction so far but maybe Dooku and the weapon pack will help spice things up a bit. Really the commander, 6 B1s, and 2 droidakars seem like the mainstay until the tank. I do wonder if Dooku, Grievous, and 6 B1s could work??? \_(ツ)_/

The GAR lists that competed were at 9 activations. Obi, 6 troopers, 2 speeders. I did see a game on here that had Dooku + Grevious + 6 B1s. He ended up stomping, but I think that was due to bad GAR play.

1 hour ago, RyantheFett said:

Will be super interested to see what the average activation count will be for all these wins. Seems like with 4 factions and all the new stuff the best thing to do is take a jack of all trade list with a crap ton of activations. So a step in a right directions with just vehicles being the problem child.

Speaking of vehicles the T-47 lol. The poor thing feels better at 140, but still sort of sucks. It is a pretty funny armor hunter that can't stand up to and take down other heavies. So it is an expensive anti infantry heavy that sort of melts if you get too close with it. I wonder if switching out pierce for blast would have helped more then just a price drop because I do not know what to do with it. I would have loved to watch their test games to see how to run the thing.

The T-47 is interesting. Some people here were claiming that it was elite and the meta just hasn't caught up.... Then FFG dropped the cost by ~40 points and people still don't bring it. The problem is it's anti-infantry damage output is to low (mainly due to cover). It also doesn't capture and is quite fragile. It is a strong anti armor option, but the meta doesn't have any vehicles so no one bothers with it.

Maybe it becomes viable in the future.

5 hours ago, TheHoosh said:

I would think CIS and GAR are going to struggle as players take time to figure out how best to use them and also of course the needed unit diversity. I would think CIS would play well against snipers, but not so much against tauntauns

3 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

GAR hopefully should see some improvement with Rex and R2. That should allow GAR to drop BARCs (rip) and get up to 9 activations. i wonder if that would help the faction any, at least offer some more diverse options.

As for CIS meh? I love the faction so far but maybe Dooku and the weapon pack will help spice things up a bit. Really the commander, 6 B1s, and 2 droidakars seem like the mainstay until the tank. I do wonder if Dooku, Grievous, and 6 B1s could work??? \_(ツ)_/

Will be super interested to see what the average activation count will be for all these wins. Seems like with 4 factions and all the new stuff the best thing to do is take a jack of all trade list with a crap ton of activations. So a step in a right directions with just vehicles being the problem child.

Speaking of vehicles the T-47 lol. The poor thing feels better at 140, but still sort of sucks. It is a pretty funny armor hunter that can't stand up to and take down other heavies. So it is an expensive anti infantry heavy that sort of melts if you get too close with it. I wonder if switching out pierce for blast would have helped more then just a price drop because I do not know what to do with it. I would have loved to watch their test games to see how to run the thing.

1 hour ago, R3dReVenge said:

The GAR lists that competed were at 9 activations. Obi, 6 troopers, 2 speeders. I did see a game on here that had Dooku + Grevious + 6 B1s. He ended up stomping, but I think that was due to bad GAR play.

The T-47 is interesting. Some people here were claiming that it was elite and the meta just hasn't caught up.... Then FFG dropped the cost by ~40 points and people still don't bring it. The problem is it's anti-infantry damage output is to low (mainly due to cover). It also doesn't capture and is quite fragile. It is a strong anti armor option, but the meta doesn't have any vehicles so no one bothers with it.

Maybe it becomes viable in the future.

As someone who has been playing TTS (it has all the new units that have been spoiled already), I thought I would throw out observations of GAR and CIS. TTS is kind of like a test bed for the real deal and is a good indicator (though a poor substitute for IRL) of what’s to come in the meta, but full disclosure, I’m a GAR player so my views may be skewed toward them or from that perception.

As far as vehicles go, some are showing up, the GAV tank, AT-ST, and even the Republic tank (only 1, though I think that was premature as it has Arsenal, but extra weapons haven’t been spoiled yet). I personally haven’t seen the CIS tank (it seems the most viable to me), and that may be just because everyone is still getting used to things (as mentioned by others above) and also because Dooku and Grievous together have been dominating CIS lists. I’m sure once the dynamic duo have been tried enough, people will switch to the tank and we’ll see how it does.

As for GAR and CIS being competitive, I’d have to say they should be competitive, but for three issues. The first is a lack of snipers, though this issue is blunted by the fact that snipers are now limited to range 5. GAR & CIS both have access to range 4 weapons and can give snipers a run for their money, but there is still an advantage to be had having one range greater. The next two issues I’m sure some will disagree with, but this is my opinion. It’s ok to disagree and have a differing opinion, but please allow me my right to my opinion. That being said, the other two problems are Tauntauns and Shores/Mortars/Comms Relay. The issue with Tauntauns should be obvious and I do think they will be getting a nerf. Really I don’t think it would take much to make Tauntauns not OP, so we’ll have to wait and see. I know a lot of people won’t think Shores/Mortars/Comms Relay is OP, especially considering the level TaunTauns bring things too, but let me explain. First having 2 to 3 Mortars with Comms Relay means that the Imperials have Command Token control that rivals the CIS, not to mention that it gives an aim (and a surge if Aggressive Tactics is also in the list on a unit without any surge) to each Shore trooper unit, when Imperials already have access to Veers, the generic Commander and Electrobinoculars to give out aims, so Shore Troopers usually have two aims and possibly a third if they have two actions (that’s every round too). There is also the problem of Critical. By itself Critical isn’t broken, but when put on a long range weapon with 3-4 dice of its own, it becomes rather OP. Let me explain further. The Mortar has 3 white dice, which should mean it misses most of the time, but when fishing for crits, it seems better than 50% odds (I dont actually know the odds, it just seems that way - try to repeatedly rolling three white dice with a surge to crit and see how often at least one crit shows up). Crits go through dodge, cover and Guardian think about how that would work on a faction like GAR. Sure only one or two crits get through, but each attack more than one GAR unit looses one mini. Not good for a faction already low on activations. Even CIS will end up bowing to that kind of attrition. That’s not even taking into account Shore Trooper’s multiple aims (as I mentioned above), meaning a 7 or 8 dice defense roll becomes very common when defending against Shore Troopers (and everyone thought Fire Support on Clones was bad). And that brings us to Fire Support on the Mortar. When coupled with the Command Token control the Comms Relay gives and daisy chaining Command Tokens and the multiple Aim tokens (not including the Coordinated Fire Command Card which gives more aims) the Imperial faction becomes broken. But... but GAR has fire support too. But not the access to Aim, and they can’t handle stress that Imperials give in spades (the Mortars are suppressive as well not to mention several other units) so no second action for GAR and GAR generally can’t get 10 activations without making many sacrifices (usually they have 8, at least 2 below normal, unless they’re fighting Rebels, then it could be 5 less). I can go on, but if you’re not seeing what I’m saying, you probably don’t agree on some level, so I’m not sure I can convince you, but for the new factions to even have a chance, Tauntauns, Mortars, Shore Troopers and Comms Relay need to be nerfed as they are power creep of the worst kind. The nerf doesn’t need to be heavy handed. I think subtle changes will the trick.

You may now attack at will.

3 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

As someone who has been playing TTS (it has all the new units that have been spoiled already), I thought I would throw out observations of GAR and CIS. TTS is kind of like a test bed for the real deal and is a good indicator (though a poor substitute for IRL) of what’s to come in the meta, but full disclosure, I’m a GAR player so my views may be skewed toward them or from that perception.

As far as vehicles go, some are showing up, the GAV tank, AT-ST, and even the Republic tank (only 1, though I think that was premature as it has Arsenal, but extra weapons haven’t been spoiled yet). I personally haven’t seen the CIS tank (it seems the most viable to me), and that may be just because everyone is still getting used to things (as mentioned by others above) and also because Dooku and Grievous together have been dominating CIS lists. I’m sure once the dynamic duo have been tried enough, people will switch to the tank and we’ll see how it does.

As for GAR and CIS being competitive, I’d have to say they should be competitive, but for three issues. The first is a lack of snipers, though this issue is blunted by the fact that snipers are now limited to range 5. GAR & CIS both have access to range 4 weapons and can give snipers a run for their money, but there is still an advantage to be had having one range greater. The next two issues I’m sure some will disagree with, but this is my opinion. It’s ok to disagree and have a differing opinion, but please allow me my right to my opinion. That being said, the other two problems are Tauntauns and Shores/Mortars/Comms Relay. The issue with Tauntauns should be obvious and I do think they will be getting a nerf. Really I don’t think it would take much to make Tauntauns not OP, so we’ll have to wait and see. I know a lot of people won’t think Shores/Mortars/Comms Relay is OP, especially considering the level TaunTauns bring things too, but let me explain. First having 2 to 3 Mortars with Comms Relay means that the Imperials have Command Token control that rivals the CIS, not to mention that it gives an aim (and a surge if Aggressive Tactics is also in the list on a unit without any surge) to each Shore trooper unit, when Imperials already have access to Veers, the generic Commander and Electrobinoculars to give out aims, so Shore Troopers usually have two aims and possibly a third if they have two actions (that’s every round too). There is also the problem of Critical. By itself Critical isn’t broken, but when put on a long range weapon with 3-4 dice of its own, it becomes rather OP. Let me explain further. The Mortar has 3 white dice, which should mean it misses most of the time, but when fishing for crits, it seems better than 50% odds (I dont actually know the odds, it just seems that way - try to repeatedly rolling three white dice with a surge to crit and see how often at least one crit shows up). Crits go through dodge, cover and Guardian think about how that would work on a faction like GAR. Sure only one or two crits get through, but each attack more than one GAR unit looses one mini. Not good for a faction already low on activations. Even CIS will end up bowing to that kind of attrition. That’s not even taking into account Shore Trooper’s multiple aims (as I mentioned above), meaning a 7 or 8 dice defense roll becomes very common when defending against Shore Troopers (and everyone thought Fire Support on Clones was bad). And that brings us to Fire Support on the Mortar. When coupled with the Command Token control the Comms Relay gives and daisy chaining Command Tokens and the multiple Aim tokens (not including the Coordinated Fire Command Card which gives more aims) the Imperial faction becomes broken. But... but GAR has fire support too. But not the access to Aim, and they can’t handle stress that Imperials give in spades (the Mortars are suppressive as well not to mention several other units) so no second action for GAR and GAR generally can’t get 10 activations without making many sacrifices (usually they have 8, at least 2 below normal, unless they’re fighting Rebels, then it could be 5 less). I can go on, but if you’re not seeing what I’m saying, you probably don’t agree on some level, so I’m not sure I can convince you, but for the new factions to even have a chance, Tauntauns, Mortars, Shore Troopers and Comms Relay need to be nerfed as they are power creep of the worst kind. The nerf doesn’t need to be heavy handed. I think subtle changes will the trick.

You may now attack at will.

I ain't not imperial scum! I played Rebels in the past before this games poor release schedule drove me away to spend my money elsewhere. I came back for the CW and I'll be staying for the CW. I remember there was a thread awhile back that talked about Tauntauns. It's very obvious (from my untrained eye) that they are overpowered. I've played lots of competitive games of 40k / Fantasy, so I have learned to identify problemsome / weak units very quickly. The action economy on them is incredible and nothing in this game can compete with them (at generating actions).

I haven't come across the Shore argument yet (no one uses a shore army at my store), but you give a compelling argument. I loved Rogue One, so I would run an entire Shore / Death trooper army if I had the chance. To bad I committed to GAR. The only problem with your theory is these imperial lists aren't winning the tournaments. The last two tournaments were won by Leia + Tauntauns (10 activation count). I believe the runner ups were also Rebel lists.

26 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

I ain't not imperial scum! I played Rebels in the past before this games poor release schedule drove me away to spend my money elsewhere. I came back for the CW and I'll be staying for the CW. I remember there was a thread awhile back that talked about Tauntauns. It's very obvious (from my untrained eye) that they are overpowered. I've played lots of competitive games of 40k / Fantasy, so I have learned to identify problemsome / weak units very quickly. The action economy on them is incredible and nothing in this game can compete with them (at generating actions).

I haven't come across the Shore argument yet (no one uses a shore army at my store), but you give a compelling argument. I loved Rogue One, so I would run an entire Shore / Death trooper army if I had the chance. To bad I committed to GAR. The only problem with your theory is these imperial lists aren't winning the tournaments. The last two tournaments were won by Leia + Tauntauns (10 activation count). I believe the runner ups were also Rebel lists.

Sorry, I wasn’t trying to imply that Shore Troopers are more powerful than Tauntauns. I spent more time talking about them, cause at first glance, it may not be obvious that there is a problm. The Tauntaun problem is obvious because they are so OP. Honestly, if I was still playing Imperials, I would be using Shores competitively, but for fun games I’d probably use something else unless my opponent was bringing Tauntauns, then it would be, “help me shore troopers, you’re my only hope”.😆

41 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

I personally haven’t seen the CIS tank (it seems the most viable to me), and that may be just because everyone is still getting used to things (as mentioned by others above) and also because Dooku and Grievous together have been dominating CIS lists

Sweet. I was hoping Dooku/grievous were strong together and I hear good things about the tank.

41 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

Really I don’t think it would take much to make Tauntauns not OP, so we’ll have to wait and see.

Thoughts? I main rebel/CIS and my friend the other two. He finds that ram giving two auto hits as what breaks them. I find the unit was built that it needs it free attack, pivot, and two Dodge tolkens so I lean towards a price increase or a ram nurf as well.

32 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

The problem is it's anti-infantry damage output is to low (mainly due to cover). It also doesn't capture and is quite fragile. It is a strong anti armor option, but the meta doesn't have any vehicles so no one bothers with it.

I agree with most of what u said, but my friend loves his atst and the t-47 has little chance aginst. I have not tried it against other armor options so maybe when we have dewbacks and other weaker armor units the unit will shine..... I am in the camp of giving it blast (or maybe surge to hit?) and make the harpoon free. It will still die to a mean look, buuut it at least it can finally be a real glass cannon.

27 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

I agree with most of what u said, but my friend loves his atst and the t-47 has little chance aginst. I have not tried it against other armor options so maybe when we have dewbacks and other weaker armor units the unit will shine..... I am in the camp of giving it blast (or maybe surge to hit?) and make the harpoon free. It will still die to a mean look, buuut it at least it can finally be a real glass cannon.

I always say, don't let me or anyone else tell you how to play your army. Play what you think is cool and fun. That's what makes wargaming diverse and awesome.

Naturally, I look at things through a competitive lens, but not everyone is like that.

I think they need to wait a bit longer and see how the T-47 can compare to the AAT and the other vehicles when they get released. If it's still on the shelf, I hope they rewrite the entire ruleset (or atleast give us an alternative rule set).

35 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

Sweet. I was hoping Dooku/grievous were strong together and I hear good things about the tank.

Thoughts? I main rebel/CIS and my friend the other two. He finds that ram giving two auto hits as what breaks them. I find the unit was built that it needs it free attack, pivot, and two Dodge tolkens so I lean towards a price increase or a ram nurf as well.

I agree with most of what u said, but my friend loves his atst and the t-47 has little chance aginst. I have not tried it against other armor options so maybe when we have dewbacks and other weaker armor units the unit will shine..... I am in the camp of giving it blast (or maybe surge to hit?) and make the harpoon free. It will still die to a mean look, buuut it at least it can finally be a real glass cannon.

Oh yeah, Grievous & Dooku are strong together, but Dooku alone doesn’t have the power to cary an army as the mainstay (in my opinion). Dooku’s lack of jump, relentless and charge make him very vulnerable to gun lines, but he is still a very powerful piece and terrifying to Jedi. I think that’s Dooku’s main thing, attacking Jedi. Grievous by himself is good, but a Obi and Clones can take him out easily if the player isn’t careful with his Grievous. Having Grievous & Dooku in the same list makes Obi a very frightens boy. Lol. I do find Droidekas a little underwhelming though and maybe overpriced by 10-15 points. Once their shields are down, they are so easy to remove. BARC speeders are also overpriced, but that’s another discussion.

I’m always in favour of subtle changes when trying to nerf a unit. In X-Wing 1.0 they nerfed 1 ship (JumpMaser) 3 times before they reduced it to an equal level. It was way too powerful, like the Tauntaun. But like you said the problems with the Tauntaun seem to be baked into it. It has white defense dice and is a pretty easy to hit (hard to find cover for) target, so it needs dodges, and it’s attack dice aren’t that stellar that Ram isn’t useful. It may be that a points change is all that can be done and 90 points is way too low, maybe 110-120. Also the disengage for creature troopers may have to be removed or at the very least say they can’t be in engagement. Removing Enaged may be too much, unless the points are not altered, then not being engaged may be ok. Then they can be shot at even while in melee, but then maybe allow them better chances at cover, like with barricades etc. Keep in mind I’m not a game designer.😊

IMHO I thought the T-4 should have been reduced further in points to about 125 (a full 50 points lower than where it started). The rebels need some decent units and options. When Legion started the rebels were quite a bit cheaper in price than the imperials. If you look at newer units, the prices are almost identical (from rebel & imperial comparable units), and dodge does not equal aim. Aims (which is an ability the empire favours) can be used when the player wants, but dodges (an extra ability/strength of rebels that they favour) can only be used if your opponent decides to attack that unit and the dodge may not be used at all. Making the T-47, 125 points makes it easily useable and even somewhat expendable. The equation for point value for any unit should be, “for an average player, how many points of minis can the unit in question clear from the board before the unit in question is itself removed from the board?”. That is how much the unit’s price should be. This also goes toward the above question of Tauntauns, their price and what should or should not be nerfed on them.

25 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

I always say, don't let me or anyone else tell you how to play your army. Play what you think is cool and fun. That's what makes wargaming diverse and awesome.

What he said.😁

@JediPartisan I really think you spoke insightfully about tauntauns and mortars, activation control is the big adavantage for CIs and if empire can come very close to replicating it with stronger guns then CIS would struggle. We also have very limited units for CIS and GAR so far so they are going to struggle some until more diversity of units come out, but we just need to be patient give it about 6 months and then re-evaluate

1 hour ago, TheHoosh said:

I really think you spoke insightfully about tauntauns and mortars, activation control is the big adavantage for CIs and if empire can come very close to replicating it with stronger guns then CIS would struggle. We also have very limited units for CIS and GAR so far so they are going to struggle some until more diversity of units come out, but we just need to be patient give it about 6 months and then re-evaluate

I am betting that Legion goes with every faction has something OP so it all balances out in pro play. Rebels got tauntauns and the Empire gets Shoretroopers/mortors. Everybody will have to build with that as their core or build to counter them both. The meta seems like it is in a better place, but the Clone Wars factions need their OP unit pros will take into every tournament.

5 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

I am betting that Legion goes with every faction has something OP so it all balances out in pro play. Rebels got tauntauns and the Empire gets Shoretroopers/mortors. Everybody will have to build with that as their core or build to counter them both. The meta seems like it is in a better place, but the Clone Wars factions need their OP unit pros will take into every tournament.

The only problem with that is that you must include the OP unit in your list or you will lose to someone with the OP unit. That limits creativity and options and is rather restrictive. I’m really hoping a nerf is coming sooner than later.

53 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

I am betting that Legion goes with every faction has something OP so it all balances out in pro play. Rebels got tauntauns and the Empire gets Shoretroopers/mortors. Everybody will have to build with that as their core or build to counter them both. The meta seems like it is in a better place, but the Clone Wars factions need their OP unit pros will take into every tournament.

I'm hoping those OP units(for the republic) will be Republic Commandos, 'cause those guys are awesome. Reasons I think/hope they will be the OP unit is...

1. Versatility. They'll be able to take out enemies from a distance with Sniper's, Get up close and destroy the enemy infantry with the Stock DC-17m, and blast apart enemy armored units with the Anti-Armor Attachment.

2. Armor. They have light shields built in to their armor(1-2 shields) and probably have a decent health pool besides that. With that kind of survivability they should be able to take an objective as long as they don't get surrounded/cut off from shared tokens and direct orders.

3. The Advisor. I feel like ffg could bake Commando Advisors into an upgrade for the RC's, I don't know what specifically the card might do but i'm sure it'll give you an order token or some other kind of token.

4. Optional Ordnance. They carried door breaching explosives, mines, and numerous grenade types.

-Arctic

39 minutes ago, ArcticJedi said:

I'm hoping those OP units(for the republic) will be Republic Commandos, 'cause those guys are awesome. Reasons I think/hope they will be the OP unit is...

1. Versatility. They'll be able to take out enemies from a distance with Sniper's, Get up close and destroy the enemy infantry with the Stock DC-17m, and blast apart enemy armored units with the Anti-Armor Attachment.

2. Armor. They have light shields built in to their armor(1-2 shields) and probably have a decent health pool besides that. With that kind of survivability they should be able to take an objective as long as they don't get surrounded/cut off from shared tokens and direct orders.

3. The Advisor. I feel like ffg could bake Commando Advisors into an upgrade for the RC's, I don't know what specifically the card might do but i'm sure it'll give you an order token or some other kind of token.

4. Optional Ordnance. They carried door breaching explosives, mines, and numerous grenade types.

-Arctic

The way Republic seems to be setup so far, we’ll probably get a really powerful unit, but it will cost so much that we’ll only be able to have 6 units in our lists.😆

15 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

The only problem with that is that you must include the OP unit in your list or you will lose to someone with the OP unit. That limits creativity and options and is rather restrictive. I’m really hoping a nerf is coming sooner than later.

Oh I agree, I'm not saying it is the best option, but at least they have op units on two sides. They were not very concerned about the tauntans in their Q&A and it sounded like they only wanted it as a once a year thing.

So at this point I guess I have more faith that they make something broken for Clone Wars then fix their mistakes.

On 11/8/2019 at 1:08 AM, R3dReVenge said:

The T-47 is interesting. Some people here were claiming that it was elite and the meta just hasn't caught up.... Then FFG dropped the cost by ~40 points and people still don't bring it. The problem is it's anti-infantry damage output is to low (mainly due to cover). It also doesn't capture and is quite fragile. It is a strong anti armor option, but the meta doesn't have any vehicles so no one bothers with it.

Maybe it becomes viable in the future.

I think the T-47 might allready be viable in very specific builds. With Aggressive Tactics and Linked Targeting Array, it is very possible to shoot with one or two Aim Tokens plus a surge token every turn. That way it is very unlikely to get less than 5 hits. This may solve the problem with the poor output. It might even work to take two T-47. If you get off 2 or 3 of those early attacks on the opposing commander, vehicles or something like that, they could have a pretty strong impact.

With 145 points, they are still a significantly more expensive than units with a similar output like Deathtroopers or Shoretroopers. It can be very difficult to hide from their attack though, and Impact 3 makes them a little bit more flexible.

On the defensive side, I think they also need the option to move out of the fray to get fixed by two or even three repair droids. If the rest of the rebel army stays out of sight and the T-47 go last/first, it can put some pressure on the opposing force to push up. If the rest of the list is able to handle such aggressive pushs, that might actually work. That concept will probable still struggle with lists that are designed to get into the opponents face fast.

56 minutes ago, M.Mustermann said:

I think the T-47 might allready be viable in very specific builds. With Aggressive Tactics and Linked Targeting Array, it is very possible to shoot with one or two Aim Tokens plus a surge token every turn. That way it is very unlikely to get less than 5 hits. This may solve the problem with the poor output. It might even work to take two T-47. If you get off 2 or 3 of those early attacks on the opposing commander, vehicles or something like that, they could have a pretty strong impact.

Aim tokens can really strengthen it's damage output, but in your scenario, you are keeping the T-47 within 1-3 range of your commander. This may be hard due to it's mandatory move. And you're committing order tokens to the T-47. It's hard to estimate the damage output of the T-47 because it's very terrain / deployment dependent. Also, if it activates first, it may overextend into enemy position and then expose itself to being attacked by multiple units.

Maybe in the right list, it might work, but so far we have yet to see it work in game. I'll continuously be updating the forum on tournament results and will make note of it's performance.

1 hour ago, R3dReVenge said:

Aim tokens can really strengthen it's damage output, but in your scenario, you are keeping the T-47 within 1-3 range of your commander. This may be hard due to it's mandatory move. And you're committing order tokens to the T-47. It's hard to estimate the damage output of the T-47 because it's very terrain / deployment dependent. Also, if it activates first, it may overextend into enemy position and then expose itself to being attacked by multiple units.

Maybe in the right list, it might work, but so far we have yet to see it work in game. I'll continuously be updating the forum on tournament results and will make note of it's performance.

I don't know how much it would help, but I feel the rules need to change so that Speeder X can not lose Cover below X due to sharpshooter. One problem with the T47 is Boba almost one shots it. It needs protection against Sharpshooter. I also feel this applies to Bikes. All these Speeder vehicles just get wrecked by Sharpshooter/Pierce, which is basically every hero in the game.

25 minutes ago, SirCormac said:

I don't know how much it would help, but I feel the rules need to change so that Speeder X can not lose Cover below X due to sharpshooter. One problem with the T47 is Boba almost one shots it. It needs protection against Sharpshooter. I also feel this applies to Bikes. All these Speeder vehicles just get wrecked by Sharpshooter/Pierce, which is basically every hero in the game.

How does Boba one shot the T-47? The math says `~2 hits per shot (through saves) and they both cost 140 points. He also needs to get in pretty close. I think you're forgetting that the T-47 has armor which negates most of his damage.

Though I agree that he wrecks the BARC and the 74-Z bikes.

5 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

How does Boba one shot the T-47? The math says `~2 hits per shot (through saves) and they both cost 140 points. He also needs to get in pretty close. I think you're forgetting that the T-47 has armor which negates most of his damage.

Though I agree that he wrecks the BARC and the 74-Z bikes.

Aim+Impact+Pierce. He'll do 3 easy, which is devastating to the Speeder. Even if he needs to move, Veers can give him Aim. Not hard to get Range 2 since that thing moves so fast.

Also, don't forget about Boba's Rocket card. Has Impact 2 on it, and full dice at Range 3. 2 rounds of Boba shooting and the T47 is dead to Boba alone.

12 minutes ago, SirCormac said:

Aim+Impact+Pierce. He'll do 3 easy, which is devastating to the Speeder. Even if he needs to move, Veers can give him Aim. Not hard to get Range 2 since that thing moves so fast.

My point still stands. You roll 4 dice. He has Impact 1 Pierce 1. You need crits to get through armor. He only rolls 4 dice. Odds say you roll 1 crit on 4 dice and then impact converts another hit. That's two hits and 2 damage (assuming T-47 misses saving throws).

With his 3 pip commander card you are looking at 3 red 3 black Impact 2 pierce 1.

Which is 1.5 hits + 2 from impact = 3.5 hits (assuming no aims). With aims you get ~4 hits which still doesn't one-shot the T-47 (assuming all failed saves), but it doesn't do some significant damage.

The t-47 is okay, but needs something changed if they ever want it to shine. I think(?) that it wants to fly on the side, gets behind enemy lines, and then hit heavies weak points or troopers without cover. It just cannot take the hits and dies to most things at range 3 and let's not talk about anything closer. Then there is the fact that most heavies u just want to leave alone so yaaa.

Maybe in the future where armor is everywhere the ship will shine. I do wonder if this ship becomes FFGs white whale. Will they they lower the points, give it surge, blast, more health, an upgrade card, or maybe change more rules??? But may at 140 I rather just take two AT-RTs at 10 points more. They feel so much better.

Interesting comparing these results to the ones at Warfaire Weekend. Tauntauns dominate, the GAR is left far behind.