(35) Evaan Verlaine [BTL-A4 Y-wing]
(8) Veteran Turret Gunner
(3) Selfless
(5) Ion Cannon Turret
Points: 51

(48) Biggs Darklighter [T-65 X-wing]
(5) Hull Upgrade
Points: 53

(52) Lowhhrick [Auzituck Gunship]
(6) Leia Organa
Points: 58

(36) Kyle Katarn [HWK-290 Light Freighter]
(2) Jyn Erso
Points: 38

Total points: 200

all I3 pilots.

Evaan and Biggs in front, Kyle and Lowhhrick behind (all in a formation for the first engagment)

If the enemy uses target locks on a pilot, it will be easy to find out who to protect.

then: Evaan spend focus to give extra green dice to the friendly ship being tl’ed. And Kyle will transfer a focus and it will be transformed to a evade-token.

Whether or not any friendly ships is being target locked, Lowhhrick can spend the reinforce to give an evade token to anyone being shot at.

And then again Biggs is doing his thing. Probably stacked up with evades tokens and extra green dice if he is the target. And Evan is taking the crits with selfless.

after initial engagment it is possible to use Leia. Both Lowhhrick and Kyle can do their full stop and still be useful. While Biggs and Evan can do their 4k and still be protected. (Although a little less)

So who is the weakest link in this setup?

I'd shoot at Evaan first, and then focus down Biggs instead. That is a massively annoying group of ships though.

1 hour ago, Cerebrawl said:

I'd shoot at Evaan first, and then focus down Biggs instead. That is a massively annoying group of ships though.

So with tl (if you got torps?) here is what would happen:

Evaan gives himself an extra green die. Lowhhrick would give him an evade.

Kyle would give him an evade-token, and Biggs would take away one of the hits if needed.
(So Evaan would have 2 green dice, 1 focus and 2 evades)

If you are not using tl, so it would be harder to predict who is being focused fired and I am not doing anything with Kyle or Evaan’s abilities: Evaan would have:

1 green dice, 1 focus, 1 evade, and Biggs taking some damage.

If you are correct that Evaan is the obvious target, I can assume he will be focused fired first. I can then already set up it as described when you use tl.

(Would you then change your priority back to Biggs? He will end up with 1 focus, 1 evade and Evaan possibly taking the crits.)

I am trying to figure out the best odds who whom to give tokens and extra green dice to.

Or did you mean to shoot 1 shot at Evaan and the rest on Biggs?

I could just for safety transfer one evade to Biggs from Kyle as a standard procedure, knowing he probably will get shot at. Or giving Biggs that extra green dice as a standard procedure. What would you do?

I’d shoot Biggs I think.

@Minimono I am going to assume this scenario and ask the question who do you protect. And before you ask who would run the below Luke ,Wedge, Thane list. I just ran it this weekend and took two ships off the board (ini killed) at rng one target locked and focused for the cost of one shield to Wedge.

Thane, Luke, Wedge all with advanced proton Torpedo and R3 Mech. All have locks from Previous rnd.

Thane locked Evaan Biggs

Luke locked Kyle, Evaan

Wedge locked Biggs, Kyle

All have rng one of their targets and a focus token. Luke will fire first, then Thane maybe ability procs, then Wedge last. One of those ships is dying (ini Killed) and at least one other should be halved after shots fired. Even without APT and at rng two 9 double modded shots should take either Biggs or Kyle off the board.

If the enemy uses target locks on a pilot, it will be easy to find out who to protect. Not so easy to choose who to protect now.

At the start of engagement does Kyle keep the focus or pass the Focus/evade and have nothing for mods. At the start of engagement does Evaan spend the focus to give someone the extra die and have no mods. Lowhhrick could give an evade spending the reinforce but would then be facing 6-8 focus modified dice with out any mods.

If you protect Evaan +1 die and an evade/focus, Biggs and then Kyle get focused fired.

If you protect Biggs +1 die and an evade/focus, Kyle then Evaan get focus fired.

If you Protect Kyle +1 die and an evade/focus, Biggs then Evaan get focus fired.

The list looks cool though and should be able to take some time to chew through.

1 hour ago, Cpt.Kirk006 said:

@Minimono I am going to assume this scenario and ask the question who do you protect.

Thane, Luke, Wedge all with advanced proton Torpedo and R3 Mech. All have locks from Previous rnd.

Thane locked Evaan Biggs

Luke locked Kyle, Evaan

Wedge locked Biggs, Kyle

All have rng one of their targets and a focus token. Luke will fire first, then Thane maybe ability procs, then Wedge last. One of those ships is dying (ini Killed) and at least one other should be halved after shots fired.

The list looks cool though and should be able to take some time to chew through.

So in this scenario (wow, hard hitting stuff inbound , but this is worst case scenario that never happens, but it is good to find out the best strategy😬) here is what I know:

1) Lowhhric is probably safe because nobody has tl on him and he has reinforce. He will give an evade to whomever Wedge is firing at: Biggs or Kyle. Knowing that Kyle is my cheapest and most disposable ship (38p) as support, he is my personal prioritized ship to allow to die first.

I assume most players would have Biggs taken out first if he gets to little support. I would argue on average a double modded advanced torpedo would cause 4-5 hits, with at least 1 being a crit. Having Evaan to soak up 2 crits from 2 torps, we have maybe 7-8 hits at least on Biggs.

So knowing this: Evaan would have to give up the focus to give Biggs an extra green dice (he has 3 green dice now). With the evade token from Lowhhric if Wedge shoot Biggs, he has a decent chance to survive 2 torps (from Wedge and Luke. ) But Thane might finish him or cripple him with critical hit.

Now Luke will fire his torp. Still...I don’t think Kyle is important enough that my opponent would spend 2 torps on him, with a high chance not being able to take him out. I might even make Kyle a tempting target and transfer the focus to Biggs. (Since Biggs has 3 green dice, I am not sure if I want Biggs to have 2 focus, or 1 focus and 1 evade, before Lowhhric is giving his evade).

I think I end up protecting Biggs no matter what in some way? I make Kyle and Evaan to be tokenless when Wedge is shooting. If Wegde goes for Kyle it is not that important. 4-6 of the hits will be soaked up by Biggs and Evan. 1 hit will soaked up by evade from Lowhhric.

If Wegde goes for Biggs, he is protected a lot with 3 green dice, 2 evades and selfless from Evaan.

This makes Evaan a tempting target I guess? He will be protected with 1 evade and Biggs. He has 8 hit points and 1 green dice. He is now the easiest to take out I guess. So to even the odds for his survival, I should give an evade token from Kyle to him.

There we have it:

I would the following:

1) Evaan spends his focus, giving Biggs an extra green dice.

2) Kyle gives Evaan an evade.

3) Lowhhric will spend his reinforce on the first pilot being shot at.

4) Biggs is focused.

In this setup I am giving each ship the following (based on Wedge shoot at first)

1) Biggs: 2 shield, 5 hull, 3 green, 1 focus, 1 evade. Two crits taken by Evaan.

2) Evaan: 2 shield, 6 hull, 1 green, 1 evade, hit/crits soaked up by Biggs.

3) Kyle: 2 shields, 3 hull, 2 greens, 1 evade. Crits soaked up by Evaan, hits by Biggs.

4) Lowhhric: 2 shields, 6 hull, 1 green, reinforce, 1 hit+1 crit soaked up every shot.

Who would you then shoot at?

I think that's the big problem - if facing someone who 'telegraphs' their intended target with target locks (or by having a target in a bullseye arc, or at range 1, or whatever), you can make that target next to invulnerable by stacking multiple defence boosts.

Biggs and Lowwhrick are the only ships who can do so reactively, though, and as noted the squad is armed with rolled-up-newspapers as far as firepower is concerned; Lowwhrick won't have modifiers for his primary weapon, and Kyle only has his turreted popguns not the Moldy Crow's forward guns - meaning your two 'big threat' ships are Evaan and Biggs.

I'd probably go with trying to take down Evaan. He and biggs are about the same durability, but once the first turn is passed, even if you're using primary weapons it becomes pretty obvious who the main target is - but whilst Lowwrhick and Kyle can give him an evade token each, evade tokens can't give you more evade results than he has green dice, and unless he spends his focus token on protecting himself - leaving his firepower even more lacking than normal! - he only has 1 die. Keeping him under pressure stops him using the focus offensively, which with 2 shots a turn he would have no problem doing.

Also - as a mildly sarcastic aside - if I was facing this squad it doesn't really matter who I'd engage first. Because the last game I played was with 5 strikers with mines. The main threat wouldn't be the lasers so much as a wall of proximity-fuzed bombs suddenly appearing in front of a quartet of not-very-manoeuvrable ships.....

4 minutes ago, Minimono said:

I would the following:

1) Evaan spends his focus, giving Biggs and extra green dice.

2) Kyle gives Evaan an evade.

3) Lowhhric will spend his reinforce on the first pilot being shot at.

4) Biggs is focused.

Who would you then shoot at?

Still probably Evaan. 2 evades are nice but his dice are otherwise unmodified (no focus) and even with a couple of automatic evades gutting a Y-wing in one pass is not unrealistic.

Plus, losing your ability to ionize targets will limit your ability to keep Lowwhrick pointed at someone elusive.

I guess 5 prox mines is a bad matchup against this list. But all lists have bad matchups. 5 prox mines would be one of those for this list.

So what is conclusion? Should Evaan give himself an extra green dice? To even the odds between Biggs and him? Of course if somebody would be ionized and stay in the kill zone made by full stop maneuver from Kyle and Lowhhric and 4k from Biggs and Evaan, is a big threat for any ship.

So let’s change it up a bit:

1) Evaan gives himself an extra green.

2) Kyle gives Evaan a evade token or a focus. (not sure what is the best)

We end up with the following protection:

1) Evaan has 2 shield, 6 hull, 2 evades or 1 evade+1 focus. Biggs taking 1 hit/crit per shot.

2) Biggs has 2 shield, 5 hull, 2 green, 1 focus+1 evade, and Evaan tanking 1 crit per shoot.

3) Kyle ha 2 shield, 3 hull, 2 green, 1 evade, 1 crit+1hit tanked per shot by Biggs and Evaan.

4) Lowhhric has 2 shields, 6 hull, 1 green, reinforced, 1 crit+1 hit tanked per shot.

Is this the best setup? Or is Biggs clearly the target now?

It's certainly the most flexible; there isn't really a 'weak spot' to go for - if there's a problem it's that your return fire consists of:

• 2 unmodified 2-dice attacks
• 1 unmodified 3-dice attack
• 1 unmodified 3-dice ion attack
• 1 focused 3-dice attack

If you use my normal rule of thumb - that unmodified attacks are more or less equivalent to an attack with 1 fewer die with a focus token - that really doesn't look like much punch.

5 minutes ago, Minimono said:

I guess 5 prox mines is a bad matchup against this list. But all lists have bad matchups. 5 prox mines would be one of those for this list.

Agreed. That's not claiming you're likely to come up against it, or that it's a solution to everything. But The squad has weak points, and the key ones I can think of for this squad will be:

• Anything which primarily delivers damage in a way other than attacks (mines, bombs, etc) - e.g. TIE Punishers launching bombs at you
• Anything which prevents token-generating actions (blocking and token-removal effects such as Jam) - e.g. Old Teroch, who doesn't care how many evades you can stack on a target
• Effects like Foresight and Snap Shot, which can lay damage onto your ships before they get their actions
• Being outmanoeuvred (either literally with the outmanoeuvre talent, or just generally) - you've got 4 not-especially-manoeuvrable ships which are required to stick in a range 1 box of each other to use their mutually supporting abilities. Whilst you have got Leia up your sleeve, that's basically limiting you to the HWK-260's dial, so the initial engagement is probably not going to be on your terms.

18 minutes ago, Minimono said:

So in this scenario (wow, hard hitting stuff inbound , but this is worst case scenario that never happens, but it is good to find out the best strategy😬) here is what I know:

1) Lowhhric is probably safe because nobody has tl on him and he has reinforce. He will give an evade to whomever Wedge is firing at: Biggs or Kyle. Knowing that Kyle is my cheapest and most disposable ship (38p) as support, he is my personal prioritized ship to allow to die first.

I assume most players would have Biggs taken out first if he gets to little support. I would argue on average a double modded advanced torpedo would cause 4-5 hits, with at least 1 being a crit. Having Evaan to soak up 2 crits from 2 torps, we have maybe 7-8 hits at least on Biggs.

So knowing this: Evaan would have to give up the focus to give Biggs an extra green dice (he has 3 green dice now). With the evade token from Lowhhric if Wedge shoot Biggs, he has a decent chance to survive 2 torps (from Wedge and Luke. ) But Thane might finish him or cripple him with critical hit.

Now Luke will fire his torp. Still...I don’t think Kyle is important enough that my opponent would spend 2 torps on him, with a high chance not being able to take him out. I might even make Kyle a tempting target and transfer the focus to Biggs. (Since Biggs has 3 green dice, I am not sure if I want Biggs to have 2 focus, or 1 focus and 1 evade, before Lowhhric is giving his evade).

I think I end up protecting Biggs no matter what in some way? I make Kyle and Evaan to be tokenless when Wedge is shooting. If Wegde goes for Kyle it is not that important. 4-6 of the hits will be soaked up by Biggs and Evan. 1 hit will soaked up by evade from Lowhhric.

If Wegde goes for Biggs, he is protected a lot with 3 green dice, 2 evades and selfless from Evaan.

This makes Evaan a tempting target I guess? He will be protected with 1 evade and Biggs. He has 8 hit points and 1 green dice. He is now the easiest to take out I guess. So to even the odds for his survival, I should give an evade token from Kyle to him.

There we have it:

I would the following:

1) Evaan spends his focus, giving Biggs an extra green dice.

2) Kyle gives Evaan an evade.

3) Lowhhric will spend his reinforce on the first pilot being shot at.

4) Biggs is focused.

Who would you then shoot at?

I really like your answer, well thought out. Since Biggs is protected Evaan gets focused down, I will assume 2 hits an two crits from Luke's double modded shot = and we will assume a blank roll spent evade token from Kyle and Biggs takes one for the team. Evann - shields down, Biggs - 1 shield. Thane shoots lets call it 3 hits and a crit with Lowhhrics reinforce spent for an evade on Evann and same defense. Biggs takes another for the team and Evann is left with 4 hull (half points scored) Wedge is up to bat next and we go back to 2 hits and 2 crits at that point I do not see Biggs being that Honorable and letting Evaan live another rnd. The risk of taking the direct hit crit is there and that would put Biggs at half also, so Evaan dies, and 51 points are off the board with Biggs shield-less. Following rnds target priority becomes hurt Biggs/Lowhhrick/ Kyle and Wedge shooting 1 Agility ships is fun as mods do not help so much.

However it is all hypothetical put it on the table and see what happens. Vs a Swarm list with 4 esc's and two Proton Torps and 1 two die attack you can try to protect the vs the torps but the esc's may use up the mods and then the torps roll in. Energey shell charges do not really telegraph who to protect.

I like the conceptualization of the list I will give it a try but I think it needs more firepower.

Live long and ..................May the force be with you.

What Magnus said is correct the lack of real punch coupled with some low AGI will hurt. Since the list is not totally reducing damage but spreading it around you are still taking the hits and Biggs and Evaan can only take so much before reaching a critical mass. In that case you will have to hit the other side with a ton of bricks and outmaneuver them also. Maneuverability of the list is also not so great. Swarms may cause it a problem blocking and mass of fire.

In general no matter what list I was flying I think that target priority would be as follows:

Evann because Evaan can give the extra die mod and has selfless which doth not work on thyself and has a double tap possibility. also 51 points

Biggs because well he's worth a lot of points too (53) and at this point he has probably used up his shields taking one to many for the team. removes a 3 die attack.

Lowhhrick and or Kyle in that order as targets of opportunity.

Or try this:

(35) Evaan Verlaine [BTL-A4 Y-wing]
(8) Veteran Turret Gunner
(3) Selfless
(5) Ion Cannon Turret
Points: 51

(48) Biggs Darklighter [T-65 X-wing]
(3) R-3 Astromech
Points: 53

(45) Heff Tobber[U-wing]
(6) Leia Organa

(3) Selfless
Points: 54

(41) Blue sqd escort [T-65 X-Wing]
(3) R-3 Astromech
Points: 44

Total 200.

So, Evaan can not spend the focus to give himself an extra green dice? It says ”a friendly ship range 0-1”

Regards to the unmodified attacks. This set up is assuming that the enemy is 4+ Iniative pilots. (or I3 with first player). If the enemy has spend their focus, they are also rolling green unmodified most likely. The list is on the low end on damage output. The design is to survive the first initial engagement, then be able to cripple the enemy more than any of the friendly ships.

If this list is meeting any other low iniative pilots and is able to fire first, I guess it would make sense to focus up and fire away, hoping to remove 1 ship before it fire back. And then hope selfless and that extra shield on Biggs is enough to survive first turn of engagement.

later, any friendly ship that is crippled, would then get bosted next turn to make it a less juicy target, and tempt the enemy to divide their shooting, thus making the ships survive longer.

in playing with formation flying I find myself not being limited so much on the first joust with the hawk.

he can spend the focus for himself for the extra die.

Thanks for the suggestion of alternative list. I am for now trying to keep the theme/pilots of the list. Here with some adjustments to have more focused attacks.

New Squadron

(35) Evaan Verlaine [BTL-A4 Y-wing]
(5) Ion Cannon Turret
Points: 40

(48) Biggs Darklighter [T-65 X-wing]
Points: 48

(52) Lowhhrick [Auzituck Gunship]
(3) Selfless
Points: 55

(36) Kyle Katarn [HWK-290 Light Freighter]
(3) Baze Malbus
(18) Moldy Crow
Points: 57

Total points: 200

So... assume the following:

at first engament, Kyle has 3 focus tokens.
If nothing special about the enemy (predator, tl’s etc) that gives away who is most beneficial to shoot first.

1) Kyle gives Evaan a focus.

2) Evaan gives Biggs an extra green die

3) Lowhhric still reinforce and give an evade to whomever is targeted.

Is this more fearful to face?

Kyle can charge up focuses more easily if needed after the initial engagement because of Base.

Evan, Biggs and Kyle will be focused. All have access to 3 dice attacks.

Lowhhric has selfless to make him a more juicy target and Evaan less so.

Flanking is harder because of 2 turrets and Lowhhrick’s arc.

Target priority order would be Biggs, Lowhhrick, then whichever one of the remainders present the best opportunity. Don't waste time and charges using lock based weapons, if you have missiles or torps that require it forget about them till Biggs and Lowie are off the table. Lean on focused fire with your Focus, calc or Force modded primaries instead.

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

Target priority order would be Biggs, Lowhhrick, then whichever one of the remainders present the best opportunity. Don't waste time and charges using lock based weapons, if you have missiles or torps that require it forget about them till Biggs and Lowie are off the table. Lean on focused fire with your Focus, calc or Force modded primaries instead.

Any thoughs about Base Malbus? He can be swapped for another selfless on Evaan. But then Kyle would run out of focuses faster I guess, but not getting stressed so much.

I think the key in getting good with this list is to know the right combination and evaluate/predict who the enemy would target down.

2 minutes ago, Minimono said:

Any thoughs about Base Malbus? He can be swapped for another selfless on Evaan.

I was answering your titular question while referencing the initial post. For the list you're referencing the target order doesn't change. As for your question regarding Baze vs Kyle. I lean towards Selfless. Even with the be in arc of the attack requirement, the crits ending up on Verlaine are less problematic than Kyle stressing at point blank making use of Baze.

Vs that set up? I'd just face off with my six Tie Fighters and shoot the closest guy. Try to aim Seyn Marana's bullseye to just force damage into one. But I'd focus the Y-Wing first. No Target Locks on a Tie Swarm. 1 Defence Dice vs six times 2 Attack Dice with a Reroll. A couple Crack Shots, one Tie shooting 3 dice even out of Range 1, if you are damaged. I think that Y-Wing would not survive the first joust. If Ties are Focused and your Y-Wing is Focused, you get an average of 8.7 damage in. Not counting Crack Shots or Critical Hits.

Without the Y-Wing you lose the bonus die to defence, so it's a matter of another joust and to see, who to target next. Probably Lowhhrick, because of his massive arc and the price on his head. That's a fat 58 points on a 1 Defence Die with 8 hit points total. Same issue as the Y-Wing, although Reinforce and his ability would assist a lot. Say he survives two turns.

In return you are throwing 3, 3, 2, 2 dice back at 3 Agility ships. With Iden Versio in the squad. Even if one Tie dies to the attack on turn one, Iden can prevent it. Problem is, it's formation vs formation and most of your ships will fly first. So you could try to block and bump.

Problem is, if you are not facing an enemy that uses Target Locks, you have to guess on who to use the Kayle and Evaan abilities, or not use them at all. And enemy can punish this a lot. But yeah, good set up.

This is 2nd Edition, I have no problem spreading dmg. Half of Biggs and Low while I shoot and half Evan is probably enough to win the game, as your squad does not have the firepower to probably kill 80pts worth of ships, especially not meta lists like regen jedi, etc.

In 1st edition, having three ships on 1 or 2 hull was still good enough to win like 35-0 by doing little damage and just surviving. Half point rule makes lists like these less viable. You need some offense to do damage vs things like Whisper, Vader, Grand Inq or regen jedi? Fully modded shots barely do much.

I start by dropping Kyle for Wedge and then do everything to protect wedge. There is no guessing game who they are going after. The answer is Wedge, and if they go after anybody else, that is a win for you.