Hello everyone,

As some of you may have noticed, I'm a big fan of coming up with ideas for custom stuff (even if not very balanced although i welcome and appreciate constructive discussions ) . I've been thinking recently about Force upgrades and the current pool and it got me wondering what else could be added to the list to make the game more interesting.

So, the question for all of you is basically in the title - what Force upgrades would you want to see added to the game and why? Obviously there are certain limitations due to the starfighter scale (so things like Force Lightning wouldn't work for obvious reasons) but hey, let's get creative!

And yes, I am well aware that certain Force pilots, especially Jedi, are already pretty darn strong in the current state and I know most ideas would be easily exploited by them, but let's see what we can come up with and how to possibly balance things out

Let me throw in a few for starters:

Mind over Matter : [Estimated cost: 8-20p] Action: Choose 1 other ship at Range 0-1. Spend 1-3 Force to assign that many Tractor tokens to the selected ship.

I know, I know, the recent Nantex release probably made everyone hate the Tractor tokens and this thing is likely to be aggravating Still, the idea here is a reference to Yoda, and a variant of telekinesis in space in some way might be an interesting addition (not to mention we have a slight variant of that with the Seventh Sister crew, or at least it seems so). This pure Action-based design is simplistic (and especially dangerous with Vader), so I wonder if you can think of another way of implementing telekinesis and have it not be so easy to pull off?

Mind Trick : [Estimated cost: 10-18p] After an enemy ship at Range 0-2 spends a Focus token, you may spend 1 Force. If you do, that ship gains 1 Stress token, unless it spends 1 Focus token or 1 Force.

A classic ability to mess with your opponent's mind, this take is meant to make them think twice of whether it's worth spending Focus in their current situation, with added touch of extra-focused pilots (e.g. Perceptive Copilot) and of course other Force-sensitives being able to resist the influence. What do you think?

Mind Trick (alternate take): [Estimated cost: 12-25p] When you engage, you may spend 1 Force to choose an enemy ship inside your [Frontal 90 degree arc] and at Range 0-1. It may spend 1 Focus token or 1 Force. If it does not, you may force the ship to perform 1 Action of your choice which is on its action bar, declaring your desired direction and target if necessary.

The wording on this could use improvement, but I think you get the gist of the idea. In this case, mind trick could force a non-focused ship to make a Boost/Barrel Roll to get it out of position, or to have it lock onto a different target to not fire ordnance at your precious target, or maybe just force a red action to have the ship accumulate Stress. Raw balancing aside, I'm also unsure about the timing of the trigger - if it were an Action, lower Initiative pilots would have a better chance of pulling it off before anyone else acts and gains Focus, making high Initiative aces reconsider taking this ability. Then again, 'when you engage' may provide some safeguard for the target should they have already performed a reposition and/or Target Lock action, but would also potentially empower high Initiative aces by allowing them to reposition someone after everyone has moved and the situation is clearer.

Prodigy: [Estimated cost: 8-16p] +1 Force

Yes, as simple as it gets - just a pure increase of Force pool. I do think that it could use a cost based on either pilot's Initiative or their Force pool, since 3-Force pilots would likely be far too powerful with it, but the baseline reason would be to give some less-prominent pilots to pull off their abilities possibly more often, at an appropriate cost that is. The risk is probably that certain pilots (like TIE/v1 Seventh Sister) are likely to benefit from it too well and it would be hard to balance it out, so I'm curious to hear what your take on it is

Serenity (Light Side) : [Estimated cost: 8-18p] At the start of the End Phase, you may spend 1 Focus token to recover 1 Force.

Another simplistic idea, made to reflect the light-side version of Force-regenerating Hate and is in line with the light side being powered by calmness and focus. The major risk though is mostly with certain Jedi pilots paired with R2 astromechs, where their infamous tactic to 'strafe and run to regen' would likely be enforced, as it further rewards taking your time out of combat to hasten getting your Force back. Would you like to see Light Side powers in the game at all?

I don't know what the force power would be called, but this:

Order 66. All Jedi receive a six die attack with target lock and focus. Defensive dice may not be modified.

Light Side-only Force power: When a friendly ship at range 0-2 would receive a face-up Pilot damage card, you may spend 1 Force to flip that card face-down (without resolving the effect).

Probably pretty inexpensive, honestly. There's a dearth of quality budget Force powers, and I think the game needs to add more viable options rather than giving a powerful but very expensive Force power to the Jedi.

The problem with adding Force powers is that it would adversely affect most of the factions. Republic are the only faction with enough consistently-seen Force users to make the Force Power slot viable. Imperial comes in second, with the Inquisitors and Vader, but everyone else is limited to one or at most two force users. Separatists have Maul and Dooku, but they each only appear in one ship. Rebels have Luke in an X-Wing (with a lot of decent uses for Force talents), Resistance has Rey piloting the ungainly Falcon (not the most mobile or powerful platform for adding Force talents to, since very few of them would actually benefit it), First Order has Kylo (although if TRoS has any depth of story with either the Knights of Ren or the Sith troopers, we may see FO leap forward in Force use), and Scum have Asajj.

What would be good are additional Force-using Crew . Unfortunately, then we have a new problem - what would the best platform for carrying them be? Scum have the most crew-carriers, I believe, so that would really give them a shot in the arm, but would it hamstring someone else? I know you said you don't particularly care about balance right off, so I'm not putting too much emphasis on this, but it is a fair point.

I'm having a hard time thinking about Force talents that would translate to a space-combat environment, though. Most of the power of the Force comes through individual applications, and users' strengths and weaknesses in melee combat or in personal talents. The main ones (at least, the ones I would expect) have already appeared. Battle Meditation, for example. The only other one I would consider has already been done, as well - Instinctive Aim.

If we had Force talents that duplicated Jedi maneuverability for Force-using pilots, I'd be happy. Something that gives a barrel roll or boost to a Force user, and which isn't base-size limited, would be neat.

21 minutes ago, Maui. said:

Light Side-only Force power: When a friendly ship at range 0-2 would receive a face-up Pilot damage card, you may spend 1 Force to flip that card face-down (without resolving the effect).

Probably pretty inexpensive, honestly. There's a dearth of quality budget Force powers, and I think the game needs to add more viable options rather than giving a powerful but very expensive Force power to the Jedi.

It reminds me of the old Determination talent from the first edition, and it seems to work like a reversed Impervium Plating. I hear the latter isn't very widely used without Soulless One (and I can see why) and the Pilot critical hits are even less likely to pop up consistently, but as a cheap support piece that also has a range to affect friendlies in need (ignoring Panicked Pilot can pretty much save someone's butt), it sounds pretty darn great My suggestions were pretty over the top in terms of costs and effect, so kudos for such a simple yet creative and thematic idea!

6 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

Rebels have Luke in an X-Wing (with a lot of decent uses for Force talents),

This guy either forgot or ignored Ezra and Kanan

3 minutes ago, Dragon_King said:

This guy either forgot or ignored Ezra and Kanan

Forgot. The guys I play with haven't used them that much, and certainly not as pilots. Thanks for the catch!

44 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

The problem with adding Force powers is that it would adversely affect most of the factions. Republic are the only faction with enough consistently-seen Force users to make the Force Power slot viable. Imperial comes in second, with the Inquisitors and Vader, but everyone else is limited to one or at most two force users. Separatists have Maul and Dooku, but they each only appear in one ship. Rebels have Luke in an X-Wing (with a lot of decent uses for Force talents), Resistance has Rey piloting the ungainly Falcon (not the most mobile or powerful platform for adding Force talents to, since very few of them would actually benefit it), First Order has Kylo (although if TRoS has any depth of story with either the Knights of Ren or the Sith troopers, we may see FO leap forward in Force use), and Scum have Asajj.

What would be good are additional Force-using Crew . Unfortunately, then we have a new problem - what would the best platform for carrying them be? Scum have the most crew-carriers, I believe, so that would really give them a shot in the arm, but would it hamstring someone else? I know you said you don't particularly care about balance right off, so I'm not putting too much emphasis on this, but it is a fair point.

I'm having a hard time thinking about Force talents that would translate to a space-combat environment, though. Most of the power of the Force comes through individual applications, and users' strengths and weaknesses in melee combat or in personal talents. The main ones (at least, the ones I would expect) have already appeared. Battle Meditation, for example. The only other one I would consider has already been done, as well - Instinctive Aim.

If we had Force talents that duplicated Jedi maneuverability for Force-using pilots, I'd be happy. Something that gives a barrel roll or boost to a Force user, and which isn't base-size limited, would be neat.

Yeah, I'm aware that the Republic rules in terms of sheer amount of Force-using pilots, and sadly due to the constraints of the canon it's likely to remain that way. A shame really, since the Force mechanic opens up plenty of options in the game and I'd love to see other factions get more Force-using pilots and Crew/Gunners. I'm sadly not holding my breath for the Ep9, although just for the sake of Resistance and FO factions getting new stuff to fly I really want to be proven wrong on this. Maybe future stuff like Jedi Fallen Order or The Mandalorian will be a positive surprise, we'll have to wait and see how it goes.

About Crew (and potential Gunners), while it is a different thing than what I asked in my post, I'm definitely up for other factions receiving more options in this area Sadly though, as with Force powers, I'm afraid it is very likely that the Republic would receive most of them again, just based on the fact that the Jedi often doubled as generals and we'll probably have more of them as Crew as time goes on. About Crew carriers, it is an extensive topic in itself. I suspect FFG will be very hesitant to provide more crew carriers for the Empire (like the old TIE bomber configuration that gave it the access to Crew slots) just because of how powerful Vader is and they already burned themselves when giving Phantom a Crew slot. For the Republic, I think LAAT could one day compete for a dedicated Crew carrier with ARC-170, even if it was expensive on its own. I sadly don't play other factions that much to know more about the topic though, so feel free to share your toughts on that

In regards to duplicating Jedi ability (I assume you mean Fine Tuned Controls), I'm pretty sure it would be on the level of Supernatural Reflexes in terms of power and probably cost too which... would be interesting^^ I'm sure the majority of the community would hate to see that though, since this ability is very powerful and widely hated for that

1 hour ago, feltipern1 said:

The problem with adding Force powers is that it would adversely affect most of the factions.

Then add other things for those factions? I don't see anyone complaining that only droids get tactical relays (although i imagine plenty of TIE swarm players wouldn't mind having access to one)

I personally would like to see a light-side-only power, but I don't really know what.

6 minutes ago, gadwag said:

Then add other things for those factions? I don't see anyone complaining that only droids get tactical relays (although i imagine plenty of TIE swarm players wouldn't mind having access to one)

I personally would like to see a light-side-only power, but I don't really know what.

My point with that was more that Force powers, particularly, have limited utility across the whole of the game's factions, not that adding something for one faction would make other factions weaker.

1 minute ago, feltipern1 said:

My point with that was more that Force powers, particularly, have limited utility across the whole of the game's factions, not that adding something for one faction would make other factions weaker.

That's fine though. Not every upgrade is useful to every faction. Factions are supposed to be different.

I don't think anyone is complaining that new illicits would only be useful to scum.

2 minutes ago, gadwag said:

That's fine though. Not every upgrade is useful to every faction. Factions are supposed to be different.

I don't think anyone is complaining that new illicits would only be useful to scum.

Not sure if you're understanding what I'm saying in my response. Twice, you've mentioned upgrades that affect faction identity, and that wasn't where I was heading. Can you clarify?

I think the issue is that there are so few Force Users in the other factions that any new Force Powers defacto become a Republic-specific upgrade due to the number of Force Users in their roster. I don't know if this can be solved by adding more Force Users into other factions, as half the problem is that the Delta-7 covers a whole range of initiative values, and can practically be two ships (CLT for a 'cheap' agile interceptor, D7B for a more X-wing like statline).

Some sort of force grab power a la tractor if the ship is in your bullseye and would cost 2 force to use. I can't decide if there should be another option that would extend the range or extend the area to full arc for an additional cost.

Also, not really a force power but I would like a definition of what a Dark Side upgrade is and how to know which force powers/upgrades are dark side.

Force Push/Pull

Spend Force, as an action, to assign a tractor beam token to a ship at Range 0-1.

Illusion - Make enemies think debris is in a different location, and cause them to run into it.

Spend Force during the System phase to have enemy ship of equal or lower Initiative at Range 0-2 reveal dial and you can have them change it to another maneuver of the same speed.

45 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

Not sure if you're understanding what I'm saying in my response. Twice, you've mentioned upgrades that affect faction identity, and that wasn't where I was heading. Can you clarify?

I thought you were saying that adding force powers would adversely affect some factions because not all factions have the same number (or quality) of force users. In response to that, I was saying that it's fine for upgrades to be more useful to one faction than another, with examples of tactical relays and illicits.

If a new generic crew upgrade was released, you could argue that it's not much use to separatists or republic because they have so few crew carriers.

Hopefully that made more sense

9 minutes ago, SuperWookie said:

Force Push/Pull

Spend Force, as an action, to assign a tractor beam token to a ship at Range 0-1.

Illusion - Make enemies think debris is in a different location, and cause them to run into it.

Spend Force during the System phase to have enemy ship of equal or lower Initiative at Range 0-2 reveal dial and you can have them change it to another maneuver of the same speed.

Both of those abilities are terrifyingly powerful, and I don't think they'd be much fun to play against.

1 minute ago, gadwag said:

I thought you were saying that adding force powers would adversely affect some factions because not all factions have the same number (or quality) of force users. In response to that, I was saying that it's fine for upgrades to be more useful to one faction than another, with examples of tactical relays and illicits.

If a new generic crew upgrade was released, you could argue that it's not much use to separatists or republic because they have so few crew carriers.

Hopefully that made more sense

Ah. You did understand me; I didn't understand you. Thanks!

Whatever the new or existing force power, let's make them a bit more expensive.

Salt aside, I like the idea of a Darkside Only (Imps and FO) Force Choke which basically hands out a Blinded Pilot crit on an enemy ship at range one when you are in their primary firing arc and they are in yours, but you skip your attack in lieu.

Yeah, I'm a bit dark around the edges...

...now where's my tea?

15 minutes ago, Skitch_ said:

Also, not really a force power but I would like a definition of what a Dark Side upgrade is and how to know which force powers/upgrades are dark side.

Dark side upgrades are upgrades that say "dark side" on them.

All squad builders (official and unofficial) show you which pilots can equip these. The only think missing is an indication in the PDF of which pilots are dark side, but no one really uses the PDF.

Just now, clanofwolves said:

Whatever the new or existing force power, let's make them a bit more expensive.

Salt aside, I like the idea of a Darkside Only (Imps and FO) Force Choke which basically hands out a Blinded Pilot crit on an enemy ship at range one when you are in their primary firing arc and they are in yours, but you skip your attack in lieu.

Yeah, I'm a bit dark around the edges...

Interesting...

The image actually reminded me that the Force Choke Vader does in Empire when Ozzel has failed to find the Falcon is actually something that happened. Your design seems to take that direction. I like it!

13 minutes ago, SuperWookie said:

Force Push/Pull

Spend Force, as an action, to assign a tractor beam token to a ship at Range 0-1.

Illusion - Make enemies think debris is in a different location, and cause them to run into it.

Spend Force during the System phase to have enemy ship of equal or lower Initiative at Range 0-2 reveal dial and you can have them change it to another maneuver of the same speed.

Those are neat concepts, with some tailoring, balancing and proper cost I could see them work

Speaking of debris and push/pull, what about...:

Telekinesis: Action: Spend 1 Force to choose an asteroid at Range 0-1; relocate that obstacle using a [Straight 1] template so that two template corners are in contact with the asteroid before and after relocating. Any ship or remote under the relocated asteroid instantly suffers its effects.

Couldn't help myself there We can destroy obstacles, so why not move them?

1 minute ago, TedW said:

Those are neat concepts, with some tailoring, balancing and proper cost I could see them work

Speaking of debris and push/pull, what about...:

Telekinesis: Action: Spend 1 Force to choose an asteroid at Range 0-1; relocate that obstacle using a [Straight 1] template so that two template corners are in contact with the asteroid before and after relocating. Any ship or remote under the relocated asteroid instantly suffers its effects.

Couldn't help myself there We can destroy obstacles, so why not move them?

Moving an entire asteroid is a pretty big ask for Force users, I think! I mean, consider the size of the "Big One"...It had an entire space worm in it! But the capability is still there. Perhaps, rather than an asteroid, target debris fields (which is more in line with what we can see actually being done in movies). Tossing Senate pods, large transformers/power converters, boxes, etc. are all canonical.

Just now, feltipern1 said:

Moving an entire asteroid is a pretty big ask for Force users, I think! I mean, consider the size of the "Big One"...It had an entire space worm in it! But the capability is still there. Perhaps, rather than an asteroid, target debris fields (which is more in line with what we can see actually being done in movies). Tossing Senate pods, large transformers/power converters, boxes, etc. are all canonical.

Of course, I was just messing with the idea alone And I still remember the good ol' Force Unleashed with powers up to eleven, throwing star destroyers around...