So, the big question here is WHEN do I measure for the lock with a coordinate that ends up repositioning the ship (from which ST-321 measures for its lock).

Yes, it’s AFTER you perform the coordinate action. But, when EXACTLY is that?

1) Announce Coordinate as the shuttle action.
2) Measure and select a ship within range two.
3) **HERE?**

4) Chosen coordinated ship completes its action. Including a repositioning action.
5) **HERE?**

AND when does a linked action from the coordinated ship fit into the steps above?

RR 8

COORDINATE

Pilots can coordinate to assist their allies. When a ship performs the coordinate action, it coordinates. A coordinating ship is a ship that is attempting to coordinate by performing the following steps:

1. Measure range from the coordinating ship to any friendly ships.
2. Choose another friendly ship at range 1–2.
3. The chosen ship performs one action.
Additionally:

• While a ship coordinates, the coordinate fails if no friendly ship can be chosen.
◊ If the chosen ship attempts to perform an action but that action fails, the coordinate does not fail.

• If an ability instructs a ship to coordinate, this is different than performing a coordinate action. A ship that coordinates without performing the action can still perform the coordinate action this round.

1 minute ago, JBFancourt said:

So, the big question here is WHEN do I measure for the lock with a coordinate that ends up repositioning the ship (from which ST-321 measures for its lock).

Yes, it’s AFTER you perform the coordinate action. But, when EXACTLY is that?

1) Announce Coordinate as the shuttle action.
2) Measure and select a ship within range two.
3) **HERE?**

4) Chosen coordinated ship completes its action. Including a repositioning action.
5) **HERE?**

AND when does a linked action from the coordinated ship fit into the steps above?

The co-ordinate ends after the ship performs it's first action, so 5 is correct. A linked action would enter the ability queue at the same point, so you get to choose which to resolve first (link or ST-321)

12 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

The co-ordinate ends after the ship performs it's first action,

Does it tho? Can you reference where it says this exactly?

5 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

Does it tho? Can you reference where it says this exactly?

From the Rules Reference.

Quote

Coordinate ( )

Pilots can coordinate to assist their allies. When a ship performs the action, it coordinates. A coordinating ship is a ship that is attempting to coordinate by performing the following steps:

1. Measure range from the coordinating ship to any friendly ships.
2. Choose another friendly ship at range 1–2.
3. The chosen ship performs one action.

The 3rd step of performing a coordinate action is the coordinated ship performing its action, so the coordinate action is not complete until the target has performed one action.

14 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

From the Rules Reference.

The 3rd step of performing a coordinate action is the coordinated ship performing its action, so the coordinate action is not complete until the target has performed one action.

OR failed to do so?

3 minutes ago, JBFancourt said:

OR failed to do so?

Failing to resolve a boost or BR is still performing the action

14 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

Failing to resolve a boost or BR is still performing the action

Or technically you can coordinate a stressed ship and still get the lock I guess

1 hour ago, Do I need a Username said:

A linked action would enter the ability queue at the same point, so you get to choose which to resolve first (link or ST-321)

I don't believe this is true, I think the linked action always needs to be performed before ST-321 measures. First off they don't have the same triggers, linked actions are "after you perform an action" and ST-321 is "after you perform a <coordinate> action". Based on how the queue works I believe that linking must "interrupt" the coordinate action finishing.

3 minutes ago, MadTownXWing said:

I don't believe this is true, I think the linked action always needs to be performed before ST-321 measures. First off they don't have the same triggers, linked actions are "after you perform an action" and ST-321 is "after you perform a <coordinate> action". Based on how the queue works I believe that linking must "interrupt" the coordinate action finishing.

They have the same trigger, the coordinated ship performing an action adds the link to the queue and finishes the coordinate which adds ST-321 to the queue. Because both ships belong to the same player, they can choose in what order to add them to the queue.

man, this is a tough one.

the ability of st-321 definitely kicks in and can be added to the ability queue after the coordinated ship has performed one action, since that's the timing of "after you perform a (coordinate) action". linked actions (plus other abilities like vectored thrusters, autothrusters, darth vaders pilot ability, poe damerons pilot ability etc.) can be added to the queue after the coordinated ship has performed an action.

so i believe they share the same timing and should all be considered player's abilities (even though linked actions aren't technically abilities at all, players may add them to the ability queue according to the rules reference). this is despite them having different wordings for the timing. so i interpret it as though you get to choose in which order to resolve linked actions and the st-321 ability.

2 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

Failing to resolve a boost or BR is still performing the action

If by that you mean, the target ship failing to resolve its action, still means the coordinate action is performed, then you are correct. Failing to perform a Coordinate however (no valid target) is failing the coordinate itself, and it is not performed.

22 minutes ago, meffo said:

man, this is a tough one.

Yeah, the timing of when coordination actually is done is kind of a mess. I more or less agree with you on the timings, its just not super clear when coordinate actually ends.

If I'm understanding FFG's recent rulings on the queue correctly, only the pre-linked or pre-Autothrusters position will be relevant . You can't add abilities to the queue unless you meet the requirements. Here, the requirement is a ship at range 0-3 of the coordinated ship. ST-321 Sai coordinates a Focus to Soontir who was beyond Range 3 of the desired enemy ship. ST-321 can't be added to the queue, even if a boost would bring Soontir into range.

I think it's less of a timing issue around coordinate, and more about the queue in general.

To me, it seems a lot like Anakin Skywalker wanting to use Afterburners to get into Range 1 of a ship to clear stress with his ability: it doesn't work, since you can't queue up Anakin's pilot ability unless the enemy ship is already at Range 1. The ability texts here are really similar.

//

*edit* That said, I'm not 100% sure on ST-321 and simply coordinating a movement action. I'd go with "after the action" for the timing.

6 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

If I'm understanding FFG's recent rulings on the queue correctly, only the pre-linked or pre-Autothrusters position will be relevant . You can't add abilities to the queue unless you meet the requirements. Here, the requirement is a ship at range 0-3 of the coordinated ship. ST-321 Sai coordinates a Focus to Soontir who was beyond Range 3 of the desired enemy ship. ST-321 can't be added to the queue, even if a boost would bring Soontir into range.

I think it's less of a timing issue around coordinate, and more about the queue in general.

To me, it seems a lot like Anakin Skywalker wanting to use Afterburners to get into Range 1 of a ship to clear stress with his ability: it doesn't work, since you can't queue up Anakin's pilot ability unless the enemy ship is already at Range 1. The ability texts here are really similar.

//

*edit* That said, I'm not 100% sure on ST-321 and simply coordinating a movement action. I'd go with "after the action" for the timing.

I don't think that is an ability requirement

The rules state that an ability requirement includes explicit requirements that follow if statements , attack requirements for abilities that grant a bonus attack , and cost requirements for an ability cost . Since ST-321 does not have any of those, it should not have any ability requirements.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

If I'm understanding FFG's recent rulings on the queue correctly, only the pre-linked or pre-Autothrusters position will be relevant . You can't add abilities to the queue unless you meet the requirements. Here, the requirement is a ship at range 0-3 of the coordinated ship. ST-321 Sai coordinates a Focus to Soontir who was beyond Range 3 of the desired enemy ship. ST-321 can't be added to the queue, even if a boost would bring Soontir into range.

I think it's less of a timing issue around coordinate, and more about the queue in general.

To me, it seems a lot like Anakin Skywalker wanting to use Afterburners to get into Range 1 of a ship to clear stress with his ability: it doesn't work, since you can't queue up Anakin's pilot ability unless the enemy ship is already at Range 1. The ability texts here are really similar.

//

*edit* That said, I'm not 100% sure on ST-321 and simply coordinating a movement action. I'd go with "after the action" for the timing.

That's not how locking works. When you lock, you measure to anything and everything and then lock something that is within range. You do not have to identify the target of the lock before measuring.

15 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

If I'm understanding FFG's recent rulings on the queue correctly, only the pre-linked or pre-Autothrusters position will be relevant . You can't add abilities to the queue unless you meet the requirements. Here, the requirement is a ship at range 0-3 of the coordinated ship. ST-321 Sai coordinates a Focus to Soontir who was beyond Range 3 of the desired enemy ship. ST-321 can't be added to the queue, even if a boost would bring Soontir into range.

I think it's less of a timing issue around coordinate, and more about the queue in general.

To me, it seems a lot like Anakin Skywalker wanting to use Afterburners to get into Range 1 of a ship to clear stress with his ability: it doesn't work, since you can't queue up Anakin's pilot ability unless the enemy ship is already at Range 1. The ability texts here are really similar.

//

*edit* That said, I'm not 100% sure on ST-321 and simply coordinating a movement action. I'd go with "after the action" for the timing.

i think the more relevant part of the 'requirement' rule for this title is this.

If an ability instructs you to make a choice, such as choosing a ship, that is not itself a requirement to initiate an ability.

Which i would argue is the case here.

On 11/5/2019 at 7:35 PM, Maui. said:

That's not how locking works. When you lock, you measure to anything and everything and then lock something that is within range. You do not have to identify the target of the lock before measuring.

How locking works is irrelevant, because ST-321 doesn't work like a Lock action *at all* .

The ST-321 ability doesn't say "After you perform a [Coordinate] action, acquire a lock, measuring range from the ship you coordinated." It says "Choose an enemy ship at Range 0-3 of the ship you coordinated." I think folks get confused about ST-321 because it has some superficial similarities to how the Lock action works (best to treat 0-3 as a coincidence), but if we pretend the text of ST-321 had a slightly different, it'd become clearer.

Suppose BS-123. "After you perform a [Coordinate] action, you may choose an Enemy ship at Range 0-3 of the ship you coordinated. If you do, that ship suffers 1 damage." This clearly would work the same way as ST-321, since the triggers and enemy ship selections are exactly the same.

On 11/5/2019 at 5:04 PM, joeshmoe554 said:

I don't think that is an ability requirement

The rules state that an ability requirement includes explicit requirements that follow if statements , attack requirements for abilities that grant a bonus attack , and cost requirements for an ability cost . Since ST-321 does not have any of those, it should not have any ability requirements.

This and @Lyianx might be right.

My gut has been to treat roughly everything as a requirement, using a basic plan of "if you can't do an ability in its entirety when you want to enter it into the queue, you can't do it." Feels like it'll be hard to go wrong with a basic guideline of that. Maybe it's an overly cautious approach.