5 hours ago, Uchidan1 said:

I feel like the range 1-2 hurts them though...with only 2 health I am not sure if they are better than just taking more B1's

Ofcourse it hurts them. It forces you to play them a certain way (similar to Fleets). You should hide them behind LOS blocking terrain and try to ambush a unit that passes through.

I think what will end up happening, is people will realize that B1s are pretty weak and people will take just enough to fill the slot (36 * 3). They then will fill the rest of their army with the other CIS goodies. At least from my sample size, B1s have been underwhelming.

4 hours ago, ArcticJedi said:

I find that very ironic and also fairly funny, lore wise, the Republic was supposed to have pretty high unit diversity, far more than the CIS.

Hilarious.
-Arctic

The thing that bothers me the most about it is that they didn't even give a diverse set of weapons to phase 2s. Both phase 1 and phase 2s have the Z-6. It now comes down to is a Z-6 squad of phase 2's worth the ~10 points more than a squad of phase 1's with the Z-6? Still debatable, but I'm leaning towards a no right now.

Guys....

B2s are all about being the TIP of the spear.

Hefty enough to make sure they get the stab before they drop.

Then the masses of b1s...the handle of the spear/ massive stick, overwhelm the wounded.

They are MEANT to work together.

__________

Now, if you must be fundamentally B2-averse.....and absolutely HAVE to run a B1 only army, just make sure you have one or two of these to be that sharp tip:

21 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

The thing that bothers me the most about it is that they didn't even give a diverse set of weapons to phase 2s. Both phase 1 and phase 2s have the Z-6. It now comes down to is a Z-6 squad of phase 2's worth the ~10 points more than a squad of phase 1's with the Z-6? Still debatable, but I'm leaning towards a no right now.

Personally, the Phase 1s have the long range dc15 going for them. I'd run every squad with this over the Z6, if nothing else, for thematics.

______

Phase 2s have mortars going for them, so I'd be inclined to run them with those or vanilla. Phase 2 platoons spend those credits on vehicle support.

____

As for the Z6s, I'd consider one or two, maybe every 2nd squad, because CloneCaptian+Hunter just seems too good to pass up for at least a couple of my Phase 1 squads.

6 hours ago, Bucknife said:

As for the Z6s, I'd consider one or two, maybe every 2nd squad, because CloneCaptian+Hunter just seems too good to pass up for at least a couple of my Phase 1 squads.

I feel like using the Clone Captain to add Overwatch (or just taking it on some Phase 2s) is going to be dreadful to deal with.

6 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Personally, the Phase 1s have the d16s on their side. I'd run every squad with this over the Z6, if nothing else, for thematics.

______

Phase 2s have mortars going for them, so I'd be inclined to run them with those or vanilla. Phase 2 platoons spend those credits on vehicle support.

____

As for the Z6s, I'd consider one or two, maybe every 2nd squad, because CloneCaptian+Hunter just seems too good to pass up for at least a couple of my Phase 1 squads.

Phase 1s can have the DC-15 or the Z-6. Both seem viable for their points and both are thematic (if you've watched the CW series).

My main rule in in legion is if I bring a squad then I bring their heavy weapon. I can't see myself bring a vanilla any squad. I don't think we'll see much of the mortar because... #1 suppression isn't as helpful vs separatists and #2 the mortar has cumbersome which reduces it's mobility.

I completely disagree with your final point. I think we won't be seeing clone captains due to their high cost with relatively low impact (and especially comboed with hunter). Think about it. For that price, you're 10 extra points (4 points to go from extra trooper -> to clone captain and 6 points for hunter) for a situational 2 reroll. You're better off paying 3 more points to get the extra attack on another squad instead.

21 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

My main rule in in legion is if I bring a squad then I bring their heavy weapon. I can't see myself bring a vanilla any squad. I don't think we'll see much of the mortar because... #1 suppression isn't as helpful vs separatists and #2 the mortar has cumbersome which reduces it's mobility.

Republic can go up against any of the 4 factions in Legion.

Playing the rebels I have run fleet troopers to great success. A lot of games have combat occuring at range 2, usually around turn 3. So I personally am interested in a 1 or 2 harder hitting short range units. I also love activation advantage and the problem with the B1s is a couple good attack rolls and you lose an activation, the B2s due to armor are going to be less likely to be aced out in two attacks.

1 hour ago, arnoldrew said:

Republic can go up against any of the 4 factions in Legion.

Obviously, but many players are playing with the new toys (Separtists and Republic).

1 minute ago, R3dReVenge said:

Obviously, but many players are playing with the new toys (Separtists and Republic).

Sure, but what does that have to do with Phase 2 Clones?

Totally anecdotal evidence: Played a 500 point game of legion, Clones vs. B2's. I managed an aimed attack with one 4 man DC15 squad being fire supported by a 4 man Z6 squad (5 models total per squad) and killed 3 out of 4 B2 battle droids with that one attack. My dice served me well, but after the 1 armor reduction and light cover, they still roll white dice. I'm not impressed with their survival capability.

That said, I do not think they are bad. They might draw fire away from b1's allowing them to get into position, or hold objectives pretty well. I'm also not sure what exactly their special weapons are so those might really help.

8 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Sure, but what does that have to do with Phase 2 Clones?

If you take Phase 2s -> You can take mortar or Z-6 -> Mortar is less effective against CIS -> You end up taking the Z-6 or take Phase 1s.

39 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

If you take Phase 2s -> You can take mortar or Z-6 -> Mortar is less effective against CIS -> You end up taking the Z-6 or take Phase 1s.

Only if you are only going to be playing against CIS, which is certainly not guaranteed now, and will be even less common by the time Phase 2s come out.

18 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

Armor 1 doesn't boost impact weapons. The change to crits from impact happens after dodge and cover, so unless they have literally zero normal hits to cancel after impact conversions, Armor 1 still works really well against Impact. Armor 1 is never a drawback and still works fine against impact because the number of cancelled results is so low. Impact doesn't do anything to Armor 1.

I didn't really make my point clear. I did get the timing wrong on dodge vs armor, but after adjusting for that, the point I am trying to make is that Armor 1 only removes 1 hit (i.e. akin to a single dodge removing one hit). Unless I am missing something and each mini gets Armor 1 instead of the collective unit having it....

1 minute ago, Mokoshkana said:

I didn't really make my point clear. I did get the timing wrong on dodge vs armor, but after adjusting for that, the point I am trying to make is that Armor 1 only removes 1 hit (i.e. akin to a single dodge removing one hit). Unless I am missing something and each mini gets Armor 1 instead of the collective unit having it....

It's an automatic 1 hit removal that stacks with cover and dodge...that's pretty good. Unless you just leave them in the open, their health pool will go significantly further than B1's.

Just now, MasterShake2 said:

It's an automatic 1 hit removal that stacks with cover and dodge...that's pretty good. Unless you just leave them in the open, their health pool will go significantly further than B1's.

They will absolutely go farther than B1s defensively if they sit in cover, but then they won't have the same output offensively as B1s. At just range two, I don't think they will be able to hit many targets from those covered positions, so they will have to be out in the open in order to add offensive value. The B1s can comfortably sit behind cover and return fire at range 3. I see their best case scenario as objective grabbers for missions with objectives in the center, but that's likely a minimum squad size. They extra trooper or heavy weapon (especially this one) is likely to be cost prohibitive.

16 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

The thing that bothers me the most about it is that they didn't even give a diverse set of weapons to phase 2s. Both phase 1 and phase 2s have the Z-6. It now comes down to is a Z-6 squad of phase 2's worth the ~10 points more than a squad of phase 1's with the Z-6? Still debatable, but I'm leaning towards a no right now.

Granted we don't know their heavy weapon point costs yet (I would bet you're in the ballpark), I lean toward an emphatic "yes". Maybe you don't completely replace all the P1s, but that's certainly an option!

A free shareable surge token every turn, courage 2, and the possibility to take Overwatch? Sign me up! If you load up on P2s you can probably drop Aggressive Tactics even. And GAR is unique as a faction in that you can drop a heavy weapon upgrade on a unit or 2 without sacrificing your overall attack output too much due to token sharing.

8 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Only if you are only going to be playing against CIS, which is certainly not guaranteed now, and will be even less common by the time Phase 2s come out.

You're missing the point. The problem is a combination of factors. One of them being that the mortar's best text(suppressible) is pretty useless against a common foe. Another being that it has cumbersome which makes it clunky to use.

I don't think they'll be competitively viable especially when the clones get access to special forces with surge -> hit.

32 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

I don't think they'll be competitively viable especially when the clones get access to special forces with surge -> hit.

What makes u think they will get special forces with surge to hit?

17 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

Ofcourse it hurts them. It forces you to play them a certain way (similar to Fleets). You should hide them behind LOS blocking terrain and try to ambush a unit that passes through.

I think what will end up happening, is people will realize that B1s are pretty weak and people will take just enough to fill the slot (36 * 3). They then will fill the rest of their army with the other CIS goodies. At least from my sample size, B1s have been underwhelming.

Yes B1s are weak what helps is activation control and that will be the reason for taking some B1s with the B2s to chain the order to the B2s so they can do just as you say and come out from behind LOS blocking terrain at just the right time. The big thing with CIS is activation control that the other factions just don't have. Just like Republic players have to figure out the best way for fire support and token sharing, CIS players mastering how to maximize that activation control to their advantage and B1s are a big part of that.

2 hours ago, lunitic501 said:

What makes u think they will get special forces with surge to hit?

What makes you think that they won't get a special forces option with surge to hit???

To answer your question, look at the empire and rebel roster. Go through their special forces options. Expect the similarity for the clones.

2 hours ago, nashjaee said:

Granted we don't know their heavy weapon point costs yet (I would bet you're in the ballpark), I lean toward an emphatic "yes". Maybe you don't completely replace all the P1s, but that's certainly an option!

A free shareable surge token every turn, courage 2, and the possibility to take Overwatch? Sign me up! If you load up on P2s you can probably drop Aggressive Tactics even. And GAR is unique as a faction in that you can drop a heavy weapon upgrade on a unit or 2 without sacrificing your overall attack output too much due to token sharing.

The biggest problems that P2s have is that they fill the same role as P1s except they cost more. What reasons would you want a P2 squad over a P1?

The courage buff is nice, but Obi Wan's courage 3 prevents your clones from running anyways. Courage 2 let's them fight through suppression better, but P1s can get through it via Fire Support so I'm not to worried.

The extra surge is nice. More flexibility, but Aggressive Tactics does the same for far cheaper. 10 points to give out 1-4 surges vs 8-14 points for a single surge.

Now we look at the Heavy weapons. P1 Heavy weapons are really strong. DC-15 is a great, flexible range 4 option. P2s lacking access to this is a HUGE drawback.

Now, I agree that the training option on P2s is pretty interesting and this would be the only reason that I would consider them. Grab overwatch on a squad and have them sit with another P1 squad away from the rest of your force.

I bet once we receive comandos or arc troopers, we won't be seeing much P2s. I don't even plan on bringing them now and have been doing quite well in my games.

14 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

What reasons would you want a P2 squad over a P1?

I think you proceeded to list some of the reasons 😝

The choice between P1 and P2 is an interesting one, which is a good thing. You can build lists around either. Neither invalidates the other.

The surge token from P2s is potentially more consistent than AT, depending on how many P2s you have. There are turns where AT only gives you 1. But also, I don’t mean to frame this as P2s vs AT. Rather, as a side effect of running multiple P2s you might consider dropping AT to more efficiently spend your points elsewhere.

GAR as a faction has issues against suppression due to very limited access to Inspire. Upgrading your Corp units to courage 2 is pretty big I think. FS is cool, but doesn’t help you when you need to accomplish objectives.

5 minutes ago, nashjaee said:

I think you proceeded to list some of the reasons 😝

The choice between P1 and P2 is an interesting one, which is a good thing. You can build lists around either. Neither invalidates the other.

The surge token from P2s is potentially more consistent than AT, depending on how many P2s you have. There are turns where AT only gives you 1. But also, I don’t mean to frame this as P2s vs AT. Rather, as a side effect of running multiple P2s you might consider dropping AT to more efficiently spend your points elsewhere.

GAR as a faction has issues against suppression due to very limited access to Inspire. Upgrading your Corp units to courage 2 is pretty big I think. FS is cool, but doesn’t help you when you need to accomplish objectives.

Looking forward too, upon the release of a generic commander (as I suspect there will be) the P2s will be less dependent on a high courage commander to keep them moving. I suspect as the factions continue to develop we;ll see more reasons to diversify units.

When did this become about clones, go find your own thread replicas!

Just now, TheHoosh said:

When did this become about clones, go find your own thread replicas!

3 hours ago, TheHoosh said:

When did this become about clones, go find your own thread replicas!

Agreed. Move out, meatbags!