Hello,

this weekend we matched our first custom decks and got into a debate regarding the timing of two cards: Unfathomable Elder Thing and Ravager from the Deep.

1) Ravager

Somewhere in the forum, I read that Ravager from the Deep triggers his forced response in the "first white action box" after he is committed to a story. So, if he is committed by the active player, his ability is triggered after he (and possible companions) are committed to a story (thus wounding his companions), but before the opponent commits his characters. These don't get a wound.

If Ravager is committed by the non-active player, his ability is triggered afterwards and he wounds his companions as well as the opponent's characters. Is this correct? I guess we played it wrong because we interpreted the wording as "whenever Ravager is committed, he wounds...", so he always wounded all our characters, regardless of who was the active player. I guess this was due to our confusion with the wording of Unfathomable Elder Thing:

2) Unfathomable Elder Thing

The card states that "after UET is committed to a story, choose an opponent's character with an investigation icon. That character cannot commit to the same story as UET". How do we use this ability, can it only be used when the owner is the active player (I commit the UET and choose an opponent's ready character which cannot be commited to this story) or can I use it in the defense by committing the UET to a card where my opponent already committed his characters, then I choose one of his committed characters with an investigation icon, so that he is forced to uncommit this character from the story?

Thanks for your clarifications!

Dunwich Horror said:

Ravager's ability is a Forced, so it kicks in when you commit him, not during an Action window (since it's not an Action). If you're the defender (non-active) player, committing Rav wounds all characters committed to the story are Rav, including all of yours. If you're the attacker (active player), don't commit Rav unless you really, really, really need to, you're only zapping your own characters.

Dunwich Horror said:

UET is pretty much the opposite of the Rav, in that it works when you're the active player, does nothing with his ability when you're the non-active (since it doesn't remove already committed characters).

Dam said:

Now you are confusing me

According to the rulebook, a Forced Response IS an action (page 12). During the action phases (=white boxes after the green boxes), the active player resolves his forced responses, then the inactive player resolves his forced response. Then, the active player resolves his responses, followed by the inactive player. Last but not least, all other actions resolve.

I always thought the only action which may take place DURING a story action (ie. in the green box) is a "disrupt", and forced responses were resolved immediately after the "green phase" is over and the next white box phase begins. Why is Ravagers forced response no action?

Just to get things right (and to clear my confusion), Ravager is played as follows (regardless of the "action" question):

1) Active player plays Ravager and one companion. Ravager wounds his companion. The inactive player commits characters. Nothing happens to them.

2) Inactive player plays Ravager (and one companion). Ravager wounds his companion and the opponents characters.

Did I get this right?

Thanks again for your help!

Dunwich Horror said:

There are actions and Actions in CoC . The white boxes (aka Action windows) allow you to take an action, meaning stuff with " Action: " before it (playing a character or support also counts as an Action).

"A triggered effect is any effect with preceded by the following text
in bold: Action, Disrupt, Response, or Forced Response." (p. 13)

Above it:

"SEQUENCES IN GREEN BOXES CANNOT BE INTERRUPTED
BY ANY ACTIONS OR RESPONSES (DISRUPTS
MAY STILL TAKE PLACE AND FORCED RESPONSES
MUST RESOLVE IMMEDIATELY)." (p. 13)

Forced happens whenever its circumstances trigger, even if there is no Action window at that stage (like Cthulhu's Forced or Ravager).

As to #1 and #2, right, though in both cases Ravager wounds itself as well.

Okay, but I don't think Ravager wounds itself. The card text states: "After Rav is committed to a story, wound ALL OTHER characters committed to that story". I always thought the "all other" excludes Ravager. Cthulhu, on the other hand, would devour himself because his effect states "... he must sacrifice A character".

TBH, didn't bother digging out my Ravager, so went with just my recollection of the text .

That's comforting, I was afraid I got another thing completely wrong

Ravager happens immediately when he is committed to a story. If committed by the active player, he'll wound anybody he brings along. If committed by the non-active (defensive) player, he'll wound all of the defender's characters and all of the active player's characters. So it sounds like you're writeup of the rules has the correct interpretation while the "always wound all characters" was wrong. Basically think of it as when he commits, he wounds. If stuff commits after he commits they're safe. (And keep in mind that a player commits all his characters at the same time)

Your first interpretation is correct. I.e. when he commits by the active player, he picks a character that cannot defend at that story. Some things to note:

1) you could use him as the defensive player, and pick a character. It'd have no effect, but it would be legal to do so. (If for some reason you wanted to have a response to a character triggering an ability)

2) When used by the active player even if he later dies before the other player commits (such as by taking a wound from say.. a shotgun blast) his effect still remains for the duration of the phase.

Dunwich Horror said:

You are playing Ravager correctly.

To make it easier, type out the wordings of cards in question, cause sometimes people are in a position where they don't have access to the cards exact wording, to answer your question.

Okay, I will do that in the future! Thank you very much for your help!