I agree the kimigola is overpriced, epic may change that value. in theory "dead to rights" negates reinforce, and how can yoi miss bullseye on an epic base? it strikes me that 4 to 5 kimogilas will melt a Raider while being equivalent on points

1 hour ago, Cerebrawl said:

Those numbers are for a defender that never has focus, while attacker always does. Seems like a pretty crappy calculator since even changing the force number(focus isn't an option) for defender doesn't change outcome, hmm.

PS: If you remove howlrunner from the 2 shot attacks it goes the other way. Sneaky. I chalk this up to lies, damned lies, and statistics.

No, 2 dice with focus but without Howlrunner still breaks for the Kimo: 8.10 to 7.37. http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/ship_durability/?d=AQAAAAAAwBEA&a=AAIAAA

2 dice without focus or Howlrunner is still Kimo. http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/ship_durability/?d=AQAAAAAAwBEA&a=AAAAAA

As to the Force (which is not current but max, if you're paying attention), those are there for Luke's ability and Hate. The reason it doesn't count defender focus is because there's a question of how many focus a defender gets. There are just too many assumptions you'd have to make.

There are other tabs for exploring, and it isn't a crappy calculator by any means, if you're interested in learning something. For instance, you can flip it around, and have a fixed number of attacks, and just see how much damage it does.

For example, four 3-red focused attacks. Let's give the defender a focus, too, since this is a one-round assumption:

2 green dice + focus = 5.138 damage expected, with a 42.25% chance of 6 or more hits. http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi_preset/?d=ggAAAAAAAAAA&a1=AgMAAA&a2=AgMAAA&a3=AgMAAA&a4=AgMAAA

1 green die + focus = 6.846 damage expected, with a 16.92% chance of 9 or more hits. http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi_preset/?d=gQAAAAAAAAAA&a1=AgMAAA&a2=AgMAAA&a3=AgMAAA&a4=AgMAAA

Even if the Kimo decides to use the focus offensively, it'll be 7.523 expected hits, with only a 29.89% chance of 9 or more hits.

I'm not trying to pull one over on you: 9 health behind 1 green die is tougher than 6 health behind 2.

I'd hope that 9 health, 1 agi is tougher (yay, it's not just my "allgreensareblanksitis"!) because the X-wing is far FAR more maneuverable

Just having a small base is a MASSIVE advantage around obstacles and other ships, especially your own when you're trying to fly somewhat close together. It's also a much smaller target, and won't get its fat *** clipped by as many arcs and range rulers. It's even got an honest-to-god not-red barrel-roll! ****, it's got BOOST!!! LINKED BOOST! Sure it's fiddly, but boost is ridiculously potent and the draw back is nonexistent if you're not shooting anyway (opening turns of the game, when you need to gtfo; when you wouldn't get a shot without boost anyway etc.)

Now, just because the game is named X-wing does not mean the X-wing is the "gold standard" for jousters...because the X-wing is not a pure jouster at all. This is second ed, my friends, the goddang X-wing can do other things now! Parked halfway between a Khirax and a fang fighter, it's a real Jack of All Trades!

(Note: you're rarely going to see generic T-65s not because it isn't good, but because their named pilots run the gambit of the worst to the best pilot abilities in the game, and those with the best abilities are pretty dang good)

The Khirax is your current gold standard for "small base, 3-die jouster"

4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I'm not trying to pull one over on you: 9 health behind 1 green die is tougher than 6 health behind 2.

Sorry, I wrote that late and my addled brain was thinking 7 health for the X-Wing, probably because I'd faced Resistance T-70s the evening before.

Cartel executioner with r5-p8. It's a scary, tough, hard-hitting threat. Arguably better than Wolffe, and also cheaper

12 hours ago, Transmogrifier said:

As PhantomFO mentioned, a Kimo made top 16 at Worlds (after finishing 31st in Swiss) in this build flown by Niklas God-Nilsson: Torani Kulda + Snap Shot + R5-P8 Torkil Mux + Proton Bombs + Moldy Crow Cartel Marauder Captain Jostero Gold Squadron has one of his matches on YouTube now - not sure if there are any more that simply haven't been posted yet:

It’s an interesting list. I can’t help but feel that if the Separatist player had just straight up jousted then the scum would’ve melted. Nicklas must have flown very impressively to get so far!

IIRC there was a scary Scum Jank list a the ETC which seemed to be doing well - Sol Sixxa, a Cartel Executioner, either Zuckuss or 4-LOM and Seevor.

Seemed to be full of tricks and punching well above it's perceived weight. Three medium bases takes some flying!

2 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

IIRC there was a scary Scum Jank list a the ETC which seemed to be doing well - Sol Sixxa, a Cartel Executioner, either Zuckuss or 4-LOM and Seevor.

Seemed to be full of tricks and punching well above it's perceived weight. Three medium bases takes some flying!

Sounds fun, all initiative matched as well.

Something like this, I suppose (intimidation is my pick for maximizing the potential of this jank, since this is going to get very crowded):

4-LOM (49)
Intimidation (3)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Qi'ra (2)
Mist Hunter (2)

Ship total: 66 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 5

Sol Sixxa (46)
Intimidation (3)
Dorsal Turret (3)
Proximity Mines (6)

Ship total: 58 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 5

Cartel Executioner (43)
Intimidation (3)

Ship total: 46 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 5

Captain Seevor (30)
Ship total: 30 Half Points: 15 Threshold: 2


Total: 200

Honestly can't remember, pretty sure Sol had Skilled Bombardier and the Execution we R5-P8 though.

Lot of health to chew through and it seemed to catch a few players off guard!

3 hours ago, Estarriol said:

I can’t help but feel that if the Separatist player had just straight up jousted then the scum would’ve melted.

from @RStan, in his own words:

"Deployed in wrong corner, saved you an hour+"

@Wazat

19 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

While Dalan's ability bid ridiculously situational, it also has no range restriction

Should be able to do it on a block

I thought all pilot abilities are 1-3 unless mentioned (like the shuttle that lets you lock outside of range three).

1 minute ago, SuperWookie said:

I thought all pilot abilities are 1-3 unless mentioned (like the shuttle that lets you lock outside of range three).

I think he was talking about using it at range zero. Confused me at first too.

3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

IIRC there was a scary Scum Jank list a the ETC which seemed to be doing well - Sol Sixxa, a Cartel Executioner, either Zuckuss or 4-LOM and Seevor.

Seemed to be full of tricks and punching well above it's perceived weight. Three medium bases takes some flying!

Yes our Swiss Scum Player!

He adjusted the list and is flying curently without Kimo.

Zuckuss (45)
Trick Shot (4)
Qi'ra (2)
Contraband Cybernetics (3)
Mist Hunter (2)
Jamming Beam (0)

Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 5

Cartel Executioner (43)
R5-P8 (4)
Contraband Cybernetics (3)

Ship total: 50 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 5

Captain Seevor (30)
Ship total: 30 Half Points: 15 Threshold: 2

Sol Sixxa (46)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Tobias Beckett (2)
Skilled Bombardier (2)
Seismic Charges (3)
Proximity Mines (6)

Ship total: 64 Half Points: 32 Threshold: 5


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z110X133WW55W92WW155W12Y131XWWW8W92WY247XWY145XW138W62W88W71W70WW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

8 hours ago, Cerebrawl said:

Sorry, I wrote that late and my addled brain was thinking 7 health for the X-Wing, probably because I'd faced Resistance T-70s the evening before.

All good.

I do think the kimo is overpriced, and it's hard to field them in a serious, competitive fleet. The last Worlds was kinda fantastic because a bunch of players up and decided "ok fine, everyone's bringing the easy top-meta fleets, so we'll bring SCUM fleets to show we're way more skilled!". And that's awesome.

Granted the Kihraxz is pretty efficient (as mentioned) and the kimos were largely there as bulk and to scare aces with the bullseye. You don't have to ever use Dead To Rights for it to be useful, you just have to make aces twitch and expend resources avoiding the arc.

Torani has been one of my favorite pilots for a long time. For a while her go-to trick was Cluster Missiles, but now Snap Shot is probably even better because of the timing.

A generic with Predator or Crack Shot is pretty cool. I used to fly a 4-Kimo list and have fun with it, but it felt underpowered and got a bit boring to fly too.

Avoid Dalan right now. He used to have a single fun trick to use his ability effectively and enjoy some synergy: Inertial Dampeners. When FFG decided to solve a surgical-scale problem (Handbrake Han) with a shotgun, Dalan was severely priced out of that option. Now he's just a bad deal no matter how you equip him. Some people are hopeful he'll be valuable in Epic thanks to huge ship regen and base sizes, but I'm waiting to see if it works out in actual practice.

The kimo's problems are:

• IMO decent dial for what it is, but bad repositions for aiming its bullseye, and sometimes it's just tough keeping foes in your arc in this ace-dominated meta
• Still feels expensive for what it can do in actual practice, nevermind any on-paper arguments about its presumed viability
• Not a good munitions carrier: too expensive to justify or be effective, and it already has 3 dice anyway
• Low-initiative, making it even more difficult to position arc, aim bullseye, get locks, etc. Generics, Dalan and Torani are stuck in the Init 3-4 outworld, where they can't deal with aces and are priced a bit high for what they can do.
• Reload isn't meaningful here. You won't get that many munitions off in actual practice, and disarming yourself isn't usually a great play because you don't necessarily know who will be in arc at your init. Knife-fighting IMO works a bit better than the hit & run strategy, given the ship's dial.
• The ship could really use a gunner or crew slot, or something. Or just a wider selection of viable illicits.
• That red barrel roll, combined with the absurd cost for expert handling. An already slightly-overpriced ship that wants its talent slot does not want to spend 4 points for a non-linking white barrel roll.
• Overall not great action economy.
• edit: Dead To Rights doesn't matter particularly against most force users, and less importantly, a smattering of free-mod (without a green token) ships like Norra and the Fang Fighter.

The kimo's advantages are:

• That ship ability makes token-reliant ships pee themselves with fear, and the fear itself is an asset. Even if you never get to use Dead To Rights or Crack Shot etc, it will force opponents to make suboptimal plays to stop you from doing that. They can't just fly the way they want if they don't want to lose Howlrunner, Duchess, etc to a nasty token-bypassing deathblow. Just position your arcs as best you can, and let your lines of threat do the work for you.
• Torani is a one-woman doomsday scenario for some lists. The ship does melt against focused fire, but if that vulture or other swarm fails to make her joust, she's going to be stripping tokens and handing out damage in spades. Pretty solid against non-swarms too. They were already afraid of that bullseye, but with snap shot and a regular shot both threatening auto-damage, now they're really worried. Snap Torani's mere presence in the list will change how the opponent flies. Use that.
• I would argue that it has an okay or good dial. Not great, and I say that recognizing that most of us are spoiled by the forking fantastic maneuverability on several other ships. But it's a solid dial for what the ship does, and thank the gods it has a k-turn. Contraband Cybernetics is actually a delightful addition to any kimo: for 3 points you can pull a solid round when you should be struggling to stay effective.

The kimogila is on the verge of greatness, it is this close! [ holds up fingers ] Despite the glaring problems, this ship has real potential. It's primary failure is that it's in the scum faction, which has been overall overcosted for a long time now, and the faction regularly gets nerfed as collateral damage for other things that have FFG's attention. Whatever goes wrong, scum gets to share in the pain. This means we're paying overall a bit too much kimo and most of its best options for allies save for kihraxz scrubs. Hate Asajj or Ketsu with Shadow Caster is one of my favorites, along with two quadrijets. I love that fleet to death, but FFG... does not.

The other problem the kimo faces is the efficiency of enemy fleets/ships in comparison to itself. You normally don't want to pit an expensive, low-mobility, forward-arc ship against the current ace-heavy and swarm-heavy meta. You can do it, but other factions have an easier time of it. And the nerfs to tractor and snap shot (e.g. vs fine-tuned controls or afterburners) don't help.

I personally think that if the scum faction get some real solid love in the next points update, and finally dodges the shrapnel of other factions' nerfs and errata for... gods help me, just give us a few months without another nerf-nuke dropping on them, then I think scum in general and the kimogila specifically could do really well. Dalan would be delighted if Inertial Dampeners were faction-priced cheap for scum, instead of globally-priced bonkers-expensive. Scum would love generally cheaper illicits. Price drops and buffs in recognition of the errata nerfs to tractor effectiveness and poor illicit value would be very welcome.

The kimogila's ship ability is the reason it has only moderate maneuverability, poor reposition, and middling init: if Torani were init 5 or 6, her ability would be terrifying. Heck, any kimo that could more effectively position that bullseye would be violent to enemy pocket aces. But even given what we have, I see so, so much potential in the ship. It's priced high and kinda awkwardly designed (munitions ship that shouldn't field munitions, for example, but still supposedly pays for empty slots and reload), but I've had amazing fun with it nonetheless.

And players at worlds have certainly proven that with practice and good allies, you can take the ship decently high in rankings. That does unfortunately mean FFG will increase the price of all the offenders, because scum are not meant to excel and President Snow is not happy, but what can you do.

When I'm feeling optimistic, I hope a list like this will get much cheaper, given that its tractor tricks are much less effective and its foes are pretty efficiently priced:

Ketsu Onyo (70)
Contraband Cybernetics (3)
Shadow Caster (3)
Ship total: 76 Half Points: 38 Threshold: 5

Torani Kulda (48)
Snap Shot (8)
Contraband Cybernetics (3)
Ship total: 59 Half Points: 30 Threshold: 5

Jakku Gunrunner (32)
Ship total: 32 Half Points: 16 Threshold: 3

Jakku Gunrunner (32)
Ship total: 32 Half Points: 16 Threshold: 3

Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z126XWW92WWW160Y129X256WWWW92WY143XWWWWY143XWWWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

You guys should throw R5-TK on Torani Kulda, honestly. If you have a friendly ship in arc, and you're up against a swarm, and just so happen to have something in bullseye... Well, there you go. Torani just lets you damage stuff that you **** near shouldn't be allowed to.

Here's what I think though, right?

It needs a Krayt title. Being able to bang on an Ion Cannon turret gives the slow turner just that much higher a threat value.

15 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

It needs a Krayt title configuration. Being able to bang on an Ion Cannon turret gives the slow turner just that much higher a threat value.

Configuration, not title. While I understand the nomenclature holdover from 1st ed, configs now fill the place that nonlimited titles other than IG-2000 did. The config would need to drop the Torp and Astro slot and add a gunner and turret slot iirc to fit. Maybe lose Reload for a Crew slot too if you want to be a bit loose in the interpretation of what the passenger compartment carried.

3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Configuration, not title. While I understand the nomenclature holdover from 1st ed, configs now fill the place that nonlimited titles other than IG-2000 did. The config would need to drop the Torp and Astro slot and add a gunner and turret slot iirc to fit. Maybe lose Reload for a Crew slot too if you want to be a bit loose in the interpretation of what the passenger compartment carried.

Yeah, but at that point, you basically made a Scurrg with no bombs and less health. There is dead to rights to consider if you want to try the Vet Turret Gunner treatment, but I think that’s gonna get the title jacked up in price.

I’m not necessarily against a Krayt config, but I feel it needs to be more its own thing, not just another Scurrg or beefier y-wing.

1 hour ago, SabineKey said:

Yeah, but at that point, you basically made a Scurrg with no bombs and less health. There is dead to rights to consider if you want to try the Vet Turret Gunner treatment, but I think that’s gonna get the title jacked up in price.

I’m not necessarily against a Krayt config, but I feel it needs to be more its own thing, not just another Scurrg or beefier y-wing.

Sort of. The missile slot vs 2x payload slots along with the dial differences does run a bit counter to the Scurrg comparison as does the use of missiles over the torps and bombs available to the Y-Wing to that comparison. Still I was more focused on accuracy to the Krayt as it was implemented in SW:G to the extent that I recall it (which admittedly could be off by a little).

I have been asking for an illicit upgrade that will allow for another upgrade to be taken that ignores ship size restrictions. This would allow the Kimolgila to take an R4 droid, at a cost, which would help it a bit.

It would also fix the jumpmaster and the Scurrg, and it would only fix one per squad as both of those require the unique title to access an astomech.

43 minutes ago, balindamood said:

I have been asking for an illicit upgrade that will allow for another upgrade to be taken that ignores ship size restrictions. This would allow the Kimolgila to take an R4 droid, at a cost, which would help it a bit.

It would also fix the jumpmaster and the Scurrg, and it would only fix one per squad as both of those require the unique title to access an astomech.

Scurrg doesn't have illicit slot

8 hours ago, Oldpara said:

Scurrg doesn't have illicit slot

Doesn't really need a fix either as long as you're running a named pilot or "forget" that it is supposed to be a bomber.

16 hours ago, KCDodger said:

You guys should throw R5-TK on Torani Kulda, honestly. If you have a friendly ship in arc, and you're up against a swarm, and just so happen to have something in bullseye... Well, there you go. Torani just lets you damage stuff that you **** near shouldn't be allowed to.

Shooting an ally is useful when you have Cluster Missiles and the opponent is out of range 1-2, or you were out of range 3 when you needed to grab a lock. Works even better with Munitions Failsafe so you don't hurt your buddy and you don't waste tokens. This allows you to double-ping opponents in your bullseye even though you failed to get the cluster missile lock or range.

But otherwise you wouldn't want to shoot your ally -- it's far better to shoot one of the enemies instead, since if they're in your bullseye to get pinged by Torani's ability, they're also in your forward arc to be targeted with attacks.

(reminder that a bullseye arc only extends to range 3 for non-epic ships, so if the foe is outside range to shoot with your primary weapon, they're also outside of bullseye)

Anyone who says the Kimo has a bad dial is wrong. It clearly has the best dial of any Medium based ship. It even has a good dial for a Small based ship! It has every single move in the speed 1-3 category, besides the turn around ones. How is that a "bad" dial???

I think Kimogilas will do better in Epic. I mean Epic Battles with Scenarios. The Torpedo and Missile slots will be useful when it isn't just about killing the enemy ships. Or....when Cluster Missiles will be good against Wings of ships. The more ships out there and the more things that can be in bulls eye arc.