Just looking at these ships, has anyone managed much with them? Not much inspiration to be found on metawing sadly, but they’ve got some cool abilities and I wondered if anyone had managed anything? 50ish points should fit nicely into a lot of four ship builds.

Torani Kulda with Snap Shot looks very cool and did well at Worlds. Snap Shot is especially dangerous on him because of the way it can trigger his ability in the activation phase, potentially dealing damage to ships that haven't had the chance to acquire green tokens.

Multiple medium bases is a right pain in the butt to fly. The Arc kinda gets away with this because of having an aux arc, while other ships may be far more manueverable (igs and sprays)

So, to start, I'd never run more than one.

This is extra the case due to Khirax simply being more efficient

For combos? Torani mentioned above. Otherwise, crackshot. R5-P8 is also good on them, but they burn fast and may not be worth the investment

Ignore any and all ordnance related stuff; it ain't worth it

Friend of mine won the our last small kit at the FLGS with two Executioner Kimos mixed with three Kihraxzes. Just very heavy-hitting overall. Not too different from Five. Cartel. Marauders. but it chokes off a bit more space, maybe a hair tougher.

Funny enough, an different friend had Dalan in the same tourney. Not always easy to land that ability, but when it does--it hits hard. He put 4 damage into a focused, obstructed 3 agility ship.

While Dalan's ability bid ridiculously situational, it also has no range restriction

Should be able to do it on a block

22 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

Torani Kulda with Snap Shot looks very cool and did well at Worlds. Snap Shot is especially dangerous on him because of the way it can trigger his ability in the activation phase, potentially dealing damage to ships that haven't had the chance to acquire green tokens.

Torani is a female rodian bounty hunter 😁

9 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

While Dalan's ability bid ridiculously situational, it also has no range restriction

Should be able to do it on a block

Also seems practically broken vs Epic ships, especially when combined with Marksmanship.

Not sure if its better to balance him for regular play and have him be broken in Epic.

18 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

two Executioner Kimos mixed with three Kihraxzes.

I heard of this build as being reasonable and on paper it certainly seems so. It really goes for the bulk. Though its 5 generics with 0 points, and no tricks other than blocking and Kimo bulls-eye. I suspect it gets a bit boring fast.

The Kimo has an awful dial with awful BR. Its mobility is pure AWFUL. Like nearly on par with the Lambda awful.

I also recommend dropping it to 41 points lol.

I keeping trying the executioner with R5-P8. It has some merit, but is also a big slow target. It gets focused down and blown up. Upgrading to Torani with Snap is my next step, though I’ve been busy with other builds of late.

Torani has some merit, however small(I like the friendly fire build, it's fun). As does flying two of them with 3 khiraxzes.

That being said, it's a pig to fly and melts if your opponent looks at it sideways. That bullseye needs a lot of skill and effort, and/or a careless opponent to come into effect, with a few exceptions(large bases, swarms, but swarms are a bad matchup for it, since it melts so easily under concentrated fire).

Agreed on dropping it to 41 points. Probably drop all the pilots by 2 points, even Torani.

37 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I heard of this build as being reasonable and on paper it certainly seems so. It really goes for the bulk. Though its 5 generics with 0 points, and no tricks other than blocking and Kimo bulls-eye. I suspect it gets a bit boring fast.

The Kimo has an awful dial with awful BR. Its mobility is pure AWFUL. Like nearly on par with the Lambda awful.

I also recommend dropping it to 41 points lol.

What strikes me about it is that the physical bulk of the Kimo kinda suits it in this list, at least as a 2 out of 5. Kihraxz are solid-enough knife fighters with the white 1-hard. Kimos add physical heft, and the difference of initiative and dial behavior seems at least somewhat interesting.

//

Dial isn't Lambda bad, not by a longshot. There are all three hard turns (two of which are white), and the barrel roll is at least there. Same price as a B-Wing or X-Wing in their Init 3 Talent versions, 3 points cheaper than the ARC-170. Lack of a 4-straight is tough, but most Medium-base 4-straights are red and not super viable. I don't hate a price cut, but I think it's probably as fair as basic X-Wing prices and I'd rather see the Kimo stand firm and other stuff go up.

Something I'd love to see, however, is Expert Handling come down in price. 1/2/3 for S/M/L would be great. It'd be a nice buff to YT-2400 and Jumpmasters (give the Contracted Scout back its talent), and it'd be nice to have on stuff like Kimos and ARCs. It'd also be pretty decent for a Y-Wing, where it becomes a bit more competitive with R4.

43 minutes ago, Scum4Life said:

Also seems practically broken vs Epic ships, especially when combined with Marksmanship.

Not sure if its better to balance him for regular play and have him be broken in Epic.

He only has two non-recurring charges, and has an agility of 1. That makes him very vulnerable to Turbolaser fire before he can even get into range. There are far more broken combos in Epic.

16 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

3 points cheaper than the ARC-170

Who flies the init 3 talent generic ARCs? Nobody.

I've tried them a couple of times, if you have more threatening ships in the list it helps them live longer. Torani with R5-TK, Clusters, and Failsafe is a nice trick that can cause some extra damage when you pull it off. The Torani Snap Shot build sounds interesting, it's a touch more expensive but sounds potentially pretty effective.

I've flown a fair amount of Republic over the last few months, the ARCs are such good value with similar enough stats it generally makes the M-12 feel underwhelming for a similar cost. Mostly I think ARCs are too cheap, but it might not hurt for Dalan and Torani to come down a point or two each, it's not like they are tearing up the meta right now.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

What strikes me about it is that the physical bulk of the Kimo kinda suits it in this list, at least as a 2 out of 5. Kihraxz are solid-enough knife fighters with the white 1-hard. Kimos add physical heft, and the difference of initiative and dial behavior seems at least somewhat interesting.

//

Dial isn't Lambda bad, not by a longshot. There are all three hard turns (two of which are white), and the barrel roll is at least there. Same price as a B-Wing or X-Wing in their Init 3 Talent versions, 3 points cheaper than the ARC-170. Lack of a 4-straight is tough, but most Medium-base 4-straights are red and not super viable. I don't hate a price cut, but I think it's probably as fair as basic X-Wing prices and I'd rather see the Kimo stand firm and other stuff go up.

Something I'd love to see, however, is Expert Handling come down in price. 1/2/3 for S/M/L would be great. It'd be a nice buff to YT-2400 and Jumpmasters (give the Contracted Scout back its talent), and it'd be nice to have on stuff like Kimos and ARCs. It'd also be pretty decent for a Y-Wing, where it becomes a bit more competitive with R4.

Surprisingly, as a Lambda aces player, I'd argue the Kimo has a WORSE dial. The lambda has a perfect storm of good design to overcome its failures. The Kimo doesn't;t.

//

And yes, the physical bulk and usage of the medium base here makes sense. Everywhere else its nearly a detriment. Also this a reasonable list to want gas clouds

I've been dying to try friendly fire Torani with Asajj and Latts. Still haven't picked up a bargain Kimo yet though.

A couple of big bases with tractor effects might manage to line up that rail gun before exploding. Should be fun.....

21 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Surprisingly, as a Lambda aces player, I'd argue the Kimo has a WORSE dial. The lambda has a perfect storm of good design to overcome its failures. The Kimo doesn't;t.

I really don't think a red stall makes up for loss of white hard turns. Like, if I could run a Lambda on a Kimo dial, I probably would. Kimo on a Lambda dial would be *even worse* than it is now, I figure.

1 hour ago, Cerebrawl said:

Who flies the init 3 talent generic ARCs? Nobody.

I don't see that as a reason to adjust the Kimogila, though. Kimos and ARCs seem mostly fair compared to X-Wings, which *ought* to be the standard.

I certainly wouldn't compare the Kim to the generic i3 arc, which is ludicrously overcosted

What we should compare is the Cartel Executioner with the 104th, as they are the generic baselines for each chassis.

Sure, the Executioner is i3 with a crackshot slot (search your feelings, you know it to be true) and a slightly better dial, but the 104th has a motherloving auxilary arc which is simply a godsend on such a clunky medium base

Oh, and the Executioner has dead to rights...which is WAY too situational to count as a positive. Even if it triggers, force users still laugh at you 😕

When it comes to Kim and Arc v the X-wing, there's no real metric for comparison. The small base is far more maneuverable and able to fit into tight spaces, plus the X comes with conditional access to the very useful boost action (not to mention motherloving WHITE barrel rolls!)

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

I really don't think a red stall makes up for loss of white hard turns. Like, if I could run a Lambda on a Kimo dial, I probably would. Kimo on a Lambda dial would be *even worse* than it is now, I figure.

I don't see that as a reason to adjust the Kimogila, though. Kimos and ARCs seem mostly fair compared to X-Wings, which *ought* to be the standard.

Kimo doesn't have the rear primary that ARCs do, nor the 2 agility of the X-Wings, which is a huge drawback. Kimo are much more fragile than X-Wings as a result, despite 3 more hp. Add to that the worse dial, and red barrel roll, no access to boost or linked actions, why are we paying red squadron veteran prices for these again?

3 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

He only has two non-recurring charges, and has an agility of 1. That makes him very vulnerable to Turbolaser fire before he can even get into range. There are far more broken combos in Epic.

Ahh i'd forgotten it was twice per game. Right, Dalan should drop 4 points minimum. In regular games it has a strong chance never to trigger as it has three conditions to be met to trigger and as now establisged in Epic it could only trigger twice if he even makes it into range 3.

I have flown both 4 Arcs (Rep), 2 Rebel Arcs+stuff and 2M12+stuff.

Agreed on them melting fast, when concentrated on, esp if blocked.

It is a medium base dial, thus it is rather fast! That 4k covers a huge distance, more than once I surprised opponents with it. The dial has all turns. Also, one of the very few Scum ships with a 3 turn. A Lambda dial is abysmal in comparison. G1A is far more similar to the Lambda.

Still I would, of course, like another turn-around option.

The ship should have gotten a boost instead of barrel roll (it is a giant engine), boost makes it easier to achieve Bullseye. Medium Barrel roll is not easy, esp if your BR is red.

4 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Multiple medium bases is a right pain in the butt to fly. (..)So, to start, I'd never run more than one.

Nope. See also the comments on 2M12+ stuff. Medium can be learned. And 2 M12 running parallel is pretty intimidating, esp with dead to rights. I had some success with that. Then of course, the Arc170 is easier with its 2 Arcs.

5 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Ignore any and all ordnance related stuff; it ain't worth it

Torani has edge case builds were it is worth it. But totally agreed for Dalan and the generic. The M12L has a 3 primary with dead to rights, ordnance is just a waste of points, esp since you can reload only 1 charge nowadays. Still it feels like the Kimogila has to pay extra for reload option.

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

I certainly wouldn't compare the Kim to the generic i3 arc, which is ludicrously overcosted

What we should compare is the Cartel Executioner with the 104th, as they are the generic baselines for each chassis.

Comparison to 104th Arc is neither optimal, because that one is clearly undercosted.

Dalan in Epic will be good, and funally he can trigger (in standard often in the first attack he is at full health (thus cannot do it). Next attack run he would like to pull off a shield to regen, as now he is damaged, but either everyone is already damaged, or it is already to rifficult to achieve. Or almost no shield at all (seps, empire)). In 200/3 he is a points trap (no higher Ini), triggers far too seldomly. Better take a generic+Contraband for the same points.

How is the 104th undercosted?

It's not clear at all, unless one completely devalues the added difficulty of dealing with medium bases of lesser mobility

And, given it wasn't touched at all last update, ffg apparently agrees. ****, all the named pilots (justifiably) came DOWN in price

Being one of the few reliable generic pilots doesn't make one undercosted, it makes one...more useful than the current Cartel executioner

The 104th is a benchmark and should be used as such

1 hour ago, Cerebrawl said:

Kimo doesn't have the rear primary that ARCs do, nor the 2 agility of the X-Wings, which is a huge drawback. Kimo are much more fragile than X-Wings as a result, despite 3 more hp. Add to that the worse dial, and red barrel roll, no access to boost or linked actions, why are we paying red squadron veteran prices for these again?

But the Kimo isn't more fragile than an X-Wing: statistically speaking it takes an extra attack to bring down the Kimo than the T-65, whether we're talking about 3-red focus, or 2-red focus Howlrunner.

http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/ship_durability/?d=AQAAAAAAwBEA&a=AgIAAA

http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/ship_durability/?d=AQAAAAAAwBEA&a=AQIAAA

24 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Dalan in Epic will be good, and funally he can trigger (in standard often in the first attack he is at full health (thus cannot do it).

Kimo overall might not be too bad in Epic. Executioner with Marksmanship isn't too pricey at 44 (or 45 for Predator), and Dead To Rights ought to prevent Reinforce from adding the extra evade, since Huge Ships should be easy to Bullseye.

I wouldn't go wild with them or overload them (less is more in Epic, in my experience), but should be decent enough to bring one or two.

18 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

But the Kimo isn't more fragile than an X-Wing: statistically speaking it takes an extra attack to bring down the Kimo than the T-65, whether we're talking about 3-red focus, or 2-red focus Howlrunner.

http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/ship_durability/?d=AQAAAAAAwBEA&a=AgIAAA

http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/ship_durability/?d=AQAAAAAAwBEA&a=AQIAAA

Kimo overall might not be too bad in Epic. Executioner with Marksmanship isn't too pricey at 44 (or 45 for Predator), and Dead To Rights ought to prevent Reinforce from adding the extra evade, since Huge Ships should be easy to Bullseye.

I wouldn't go wild with them or overload them (less is more in Epic, in my experience), but should be decent enough to bring one or two.

Those numbers are for a defender that never has focus, while attacker always does. Seems like a pretty crappy calculator since even changing the force number(focus isn't an option) for defender doesn't change outcome, hmm.

PS: If you remove howlrunner from the 2 shot attacks it goes the other way. Sneaky. I chalk this up to lies, damned lies, and statistics.