So I've been looking at a couple of Kihraxz builds.

The first is a five Kihraxz build.

Cartel Marauder (38) w/ Contraband Cybernetics (3)

Cartel Marauder (38) w/ Contraband Cybernetics (3)

Cartel Marauder (38) w/ Contraband Cybernetics (3)

Cartel Marauder (38)

Cartel Marauder (38)

Total (199)

The second build ups the quality of the Kihraxz, at the expense of dropping one and adding N'dru

Black Sun Ace (41) w/ Crack Shot (1)

Black Sun Ace (41) w/ Crack Shot (1)

Black Sun Ace (41) w/ Crack Shot (1)

Black Sun Ace (41) w/ Crack Shot (1)

N'dru Suhlak (31) w/ Crack Shot (1)

Total (200)

Any thoughts on whether increasing the Initiative of the cartels to I3 and adding Crack Shot is worth dropping one of the Kihraxz and adding N'dru with Crack Shot?

Potentially it's still five attacks of three dice, although with a slight reduction in health.

My thought is that increasing from I2 to I3 is probably worth the dropping of a Kihraxz and adding N'dru, but I haven't actually put the Z-95 variant on the table yet.

What is the main advantage you're looking at, going from I2 to I3?

46 minutes ago, Vectivus333 said:

What is the main advantage you're looking at, going from I2 to I3?

Potential initiative kills, especially against swarm lists.

Torkil Mux is what makes the low init K-Fighters so good. not including him seems bad. If ur not playing captain seevor ur missing some of the best disruption scum has right now. Seevor is scums best ship in terms of cost vs quality.

16 hours ago, underling said:

Potentially it's still five attacks of three dice, although with a slight reduction in health.

It is, but N'dru's ability doesn't play well with swarmier lists, since it's hard to stay clear of all your wingmen and still get into engagement range.

16 hours ago, underling said:

My thought is that increasing from I2 to I3 is probably worth the dropping of a Kihraxz and adding N'dru

The problem is that I3 still isn't that much to write home about. Because it's a small increase in initiative, it's cheap but I'd still rather buy it if I planned to equip a talent; I'm unconvinced buying anything less than I4 is worth it for initiative order alone.

Honestly, one of my favourite suggestions is 5 x Cartel Marauders with Deadman's Switches. They're surprisingly agile with speed 1 turns and barrel roll, and against another swarm you can throw them down your opponent's throat to block if you're at the wrong end of the initiative stick. Plus, if you take an initiative loss, deadman's switch and aggressive flying is a great answer; a khiraxz in the heart of a swarm blowing up can easily hit 4+ enemy ships!

Someone else suggested 2 generic Kimogilas with 3 Marauders. Seems tanky to me.

5 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Honestly, one of my favourite suggestions is 5 x Cartel Marauders with Deadman's Switches. They're surprisingly agile with speed 1 turns and barrel roll, and against another swarm you can throw them down your opponent's throat to block if you're at the wrong end of the initiative stick. Plus, if you take an initiative loss, deadman's switch and aggressive flying is a great answer; a khiraxz in the heart of a swarm blowing up can easily hit 4+ enemy ships!

My only concern with the above would be how much residual damage the Cartels suffer from their own ships blowing up.

True, but with 30-odd hit points in the squad, you can afford to take the odd collateral hit as long as your opponent is taking damage too, and it's not like you need to cluster your squad up; unlike swarms you don't have a range 1 'aura' you're trying to stay inside and whilst range 1 is good, with 3-dice primaries fighting at range 2 with some ships is perfectly feasible.

9 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

True, but with 30-odd hit points in the squad, you can afford to take the odd collateral hit as long as your opponent is taking damage too, and it's not like you need to cluster your squad up; unlike swarms you don't have a range 1 'aura' you're trying to stay inside and whilst range 1 is good, with 3-dice primaries fighting at range 2 with some ships is perfectly feasible.

But if you're not at range 1 the DMS upgrades aren't working for you either.

I like the contrabands. Keep the pressure on your enemy.

Another option is 4 Khirazxcvz and an ion turret Kavil, or an ion cannon Serissu that gives your khiraxzcz defensive rerolls.

And Torkhil is still good without title with that focus rotate turret link.

Torkil Mux (37)
L3-37 (4)

Serissu (40)
Ion Cannon (5)

Cartel Marauder (38)

Cartel Marauder (38)

Cartel Marauder (38)
Total: 200

Could also go offensive Drea version if your not going torkhil.

Cartel Marauder (38)

Cartel Marauder (38)

Cartel Marauder (38)

Drea Renthal (49)
Crack Shot (1)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Captain Seevor (30)
Crack Shot (1)
Total: 200

how about...

Cartel Marauder (38)
Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 3

Cartel Marauder (38)
Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 3

Torkil Mux (37)
Moldy Crow (18)

Ship total: 55 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Shadowport Hunter (58)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Shadow Caster (3)

Ship total: 69 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 5


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z124XWWWWY124XWWWWY114XWWWWW156Y128X54WWWW160&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

hunter can put tractor on a ship then the team can init kill it

On 10/31/2019 at 1:44 AM, underling said:

Potential initiative kills, especially against swarm lists.

Note that some of the CIS lists to make cut at worlds used i3 separatist droids, probably so they could initiative kill trade federation droid matchups.

I appreciate the feedback, and there are some good suggestions. I think a cluster of Kihraxz can form the backbone of some decent lists.
Here's another list that I've been dinking with:

Inaldra (31)
Tractor beam (2)
Afterburners (6)

Black Sun Enforcer (46)

Cartel Marauder (38)

Cartel Marauder (38)

Cartel Marauder (38)
Total: 199

The theory is that all five ships are I2, which does two things: eliminates any sequencing issues,
and allows Inaldra to potentially tractor a target for the other four.
You could also sub in another Kihraxz for the starviper, and give three of the four K's Cybernetics.

Inaldra (31)
Tractor beam (2)
Afterburners (6)

Cartel Marauder (38)
Contraband Cybernetics (3)

Cartel Marauder (38)
Contraband Cybernetics (3)

Cartel Marauder (38)
Contraband Cybernetics (3)

Cartel Marauder (38)
Total: 200

This...

Inaldra (31)
Tractor beam (2)

Cartel Marauder (38)
Contraband Cybernetics (3)

Cartel Marauder (38)
Contraband Cybernetics (3)

Cartel Marauder (38)
Contraband Cybernetics (3)

Cartel Marauder (38)
Contraband Cybernetics (3)

Total: 197

... was really fun today.

But Inaldra needs to be protected enough to have one or two shots with the beam.

@underling Why not Unkar Plutt with Cloaking instead of Inaldra and 1-2 CCs? Now you can Tractor without needing your dice to cooperate, and you get some extra defense until the cloak breaks. And you keep your universal I2.

1 hour ago, ChahDresh said:

@underling Why not Unkar Plutt with Cloaking instead of Inaldra and 1-2 CCs? Now you can Tractor without needing your dice to cooperate, and you get some extra defense until the cloak breaks. And you keep your universal I2.

Probably more personal preference than Inaldra being more or less effective. I've just never been a big fan of the quad.

But a quad would serve a similar function to the tractor beam.

The minor differences would be (assuming I understand the differences correctly):
* The beam works at range 1-3, while the quad needs to be at range 1 (or 0 with Unkar).
* The beam has a (small) chance of affecting medium or large bases, while a quad would need to have the target in its bulls-eye.
* Inaldra might be a little easier to protect due to the range 1 limitation of the quad.
* The quad does automatically work if in range 1 and an action is available. However, Inaldra doesn't need an action to be able to work. Just a shot on target.
* A quad would still get a chance to damage something, as it doesn't use an shot to tractor a target.

The function of either is similar, while the effectiveness of either might be more a function of preference.

@underling The timing distinction is significant. Inaldra has to shoot to work, meaning the target must be in arc at that time, but you get to tractor the target ideally for where your ships ended up. A quad jumper can snag a target in activation, meaning you know where to go to pull it off. However, you have somewhat less info for the ideal tractor location. That said, tractoring people in activation can be catastrophic for them if you can throw them on an obstacle.

3 hours ago, ChahDresh said:

@underling The timing distinction is significant. Inaldra has to shoot to work, meaning the target must be in arc at that time, but you get to tractor the target ideally for where your ships ended up. A quad jumper can snag a target in activation, meaning you know where to go to pull it off. However, you have somewhat less info for the ideal tractor location. That said, tractoring people in activation can be catastrophic for them if you can throw them on an obstacle.

Yep, I realize they can be effective. I've just never been big on the looks of the ship.

And I can see potential advantages to tractoring a ship during the activation phase.