9 minutes ago, Singulativ said:

There is no rule in the rules reference v106 limiting the Force recurring gained from upgrades to 1. If there is the special case of gaining the recurring charge if my ships Force is 0 I would therefore gain 2 or more if I equip enough crew.

Besides that the wording for e.g. Shields is exact the same so the same pattern would apply.

Okay, third time the charm. Page 8, Force Charges, second Diamond bullet:

◊ During the End Phase, each ship with a Force capacity recovers only a number of equal to the recurring charge symbols on its ship card, regardless of the number of recurring charge symbols that appear on its upgrade cards.

Each ship card currently only has 1 recurring charge symbol. As I explained here:

6 dice limit?

Im upset! Lol

seeriously though why kill fun like that. Why

33 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Okay, third time the charm. Page 8, Force Charges, second Diamond bullet:

◊ During the End Phase, each ship with a Force capacity recovers only a number of equal to the recurring charge symbols on its ship card, regardless of the number of recurring charge symbols that appear on its upgrade cards.

Each ship card currently only has 1 recurring charge symbol. As I explained here:

But

„During the End Phase, each card with a recurring charge symbol recovers one charge.“

contradicts

“During the End Phase, each ship with a Force capacity recovers only a number of Force equal to the recurring charge symbols on its ship card, regardless of the number of recurring charge symbols that appear on its upgrade cards.“,

„During the End Phase, each ship with a shield capacity recovers only a number of shield equal to the recurring charge symbols on its ship card, regardless of the number of recurring charge symbols that appear on its upgrade cards.“

and

“During the End Phase, each ship with an energy capacity recovers only
a number of energ equal to the recurring charge symbols on its ship card, regardless of the number of recurring charge symbols that appear on its upgrade cards.“

And we know that there are (huge) ships which are supposed to gain more than one charge per end phase.

1 minute ago, Singulativ said:

But

„During the End Phase, each card with a recurring charge symbol recovers one charge.“

contradicts

“During the End Phase, each ship with a Force capacity recovers only a number of Force equal to the recurring charge symbols on its ship card, regardless of the number of recurring charge symbols that appear on its upgrade cards.“,

„During the End Phase, each ship with a shield capacity recovers only a number of shield equal to the recurring charge symbols on its ship card, regardless of the number of recurring charge symbols that appear on its upgrade cards.“

and

“During the End Phase, each ship with an energy capacity recovers only
a number of energ equal to the recurring charge symbols on its ship card, regardless of the number of recurring charge symbols that appear on its upgrade cards.“

And we know that there are (huge) ships which are supposed to gain more than one charge per end phase.

Upgrades do not have shield or force charges to recover. These charges are added to the ship and are not tracked by the upgrade card itself. Your first quote is talking about cards, and the others are all talking about ships.

2 minutes ago, Singulativ said:

But

„During the End Phase, each card with a recurring charge symbol recovers one charge.“

contradicts

“During the End Phase, each ship with a Force capacity recovers only a number of Force equal to the recurring charge symbols on its ship card, regardless of the number of recurring charge symbols that appear on its upgrade cards.“,

„During the End Phase, each ship with a shield capacity recovers only a number of shield equal to the recurring charge symbols on its ship card, regardless of the number of recurring charge symbols that appear on its upgrade cards.“

and

“During the End Phase, each ship with an energy capacity recovers only
a number of energ equal to the recurring charge symbols on its ship card, regardless of the number of recurring charge symbols that appear on its upgrade cards.“

And we know that there are (huge) ships which are supposed to gain more than one charge per end phase.

It is outlining an exception to the each card rule for those capacities. Shields and Force flip charges based on the number of recurring charge symbols next to their charge count on the ship card itself. Most only can do one, but the larger huge ships contradict this by having 2 of the symbols thus recover 1 per symbol.

Just now, Hiemfire said:

It is outlining an exception to the each card rule for those capacities. Shields and Force flip charges based on the number of recurring charge symbols next to their charge count on the ship card itself. Most only can do one, but the larger huge ships contradict this by having 2 of the symbols thus recover 1 per symbol.

But my ship card is still a card, isn‘t it?

3 minutes ago, Maui. said:

Upgrades do not have shield or force charges to recover. These charges are added to the ship and are not tracked by the upgrade card itself. Your first quote is talking about cards, and the others are all talking about ships.

Again: And if I add from two Force crew both Force and recurring Force to my ship card I have 2 recurring Force on my ship card?

4 minutes ago, Singulativ said:

Again: And if I add from two Force crew both Force and recurring Force to my ship card I have 2 recurring Force on my ship card?

No. Your ship has a pool of two force charges, and recovers one charge per turn, because the recurring part from the upgrades is ignored and only the ship's recurring charge (which every ship has, even if its Force capacity is 0) is considered.

Basically, from now on you can ignore the recurring triangle on Force crew, and pretend that every single ship has one instead.

8 minutes ago, Maui. said:

No. Your ship has a pool of two force charges, and recovers one charge per turn, because the recurring part from the upgrades is ignored.

Whoopsie, you are right.

For traceability from the rules reference: „[...] all Force capacities have a recurring charge symbol. [...]“

So I add the shield and Force upgrades, ignoring the recurring charges and then set the recurring charge value of my Force to 1.

Nonetheless I believe this:

„During the End Phase, each card with a recurring charge symbol recovers one charge.“

should read:

„During the End Phase, each card with a recurring charge symbol recovers one charge per recurring charge symbol.“

to avoid contradicting the other parts about individual types of charges regenerating.

11 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

6 dice limit?

Im upset! Lol

seeriously though why kill fun like that. Why

There's probably lots of ways to reach 7+ attack dice in Epic or with other new stuff coming out. Range 1 + Trick Shot + Wullffwarro + Jan Ors is a solid basis for up to 7 attack dice already, and there may be more stuff coming out that could amplify it further. More likely they're focused on defense dice, and attack dice got capped for consistency.

I'd assume FFG sees a problem when an Aggressor Assault Fighter could conceivably roll 11 defense dice ( 3 base + 2 for range 4/5 + 2 for cloak + 1 for stealth device + 1 for a huge ship obstruction + 1 for another ship with tactical scrambler + 1 for obstacle obstruction, bonus points if it's a gas cloud, extra bonus points if you have both calculate tokens and an evade token). With all those options, you're likely hitting 8-ish often by just meeting some of the conditions. That max could be even higher with other pilots/upgrades yet to be revealed.

An Epic-played Whisper could easily roll 7+ very well-modified defense dice this way, and capped to 6 she still has amazing defense, just not statistically untouchable defense; if she's unmodded she can be hit with decent odds with only 6 defense dice. FFG may have decided there needs to be a cap to the min/maxing for balance reasons, so a ship always has some reasonable chance of being hit by attacks. Also you're not losing much for whisper: if she has one or two evades and a focus, her 6-dice chances of being hit by a locked + focused attack are 0.23%, with good odds of having tokens left. ( tool here )

It's possible they're just cleaning up the rules to be more like how they envisioned them, and rolling more than 6 dice is too clumsy in their view. 6 dice is 2 core sets, or a core + dice pack, or especially important, it's just 1 dice set per player -- that might fit neatly into FFG's view of what a player should take to a game.

But as for the absurd fun of rolling 7+ dice... yea, that's dead. Oh well. I love the options for maximizing dice, but I get it.

Even with the cap, as I pointed out with Wullffwarro War Crimes, all these sources of extra dice are still quite useful. The 6-dice cap keeps you from hitting a maximum of 8 or 11 etc, but each option adds a way to get extra dice, so your ships will frequently have bonuses and approach or hit the cap of 6. Whisper or a cloaked Aggressor etc will very easily hit 6 dice by satisfying just a couple conditions of many, and other ships will hit 5 or 6 with great ease too. Obstructing shots with obstacles and huge ships, especially at range 3, 4, or 5, will keep your fleet (and especially your aces or other critical support pieces) relatively save, just not untouchable.

11 minutes ago, Wazat said:

I'd assume FFG sees a problem when an Aggressor Assault Fighter could conceivably roll 11 defense dice ( 3 base + 2 for range 4/5 + 2 for cloak + 1 for stealth device + 1 for a huge ship obstruction + 1 for another ship with tactical scrambler + 1 for obstacle obstruction, bonus points if it's a gas cloud, extra bonus points if you have both calculate tokens and an evade token).

Possibly higher since each obstructing ship with tactical scrambler adds a green die, so multiple medium or large ships with the upgrade can contribute. Only real limits are how many points are available and if your opponent is going to still want to try and do a moon shot with an Estes by trying to get through 11+ green.

Just now, Hiemfire said:

Possibly higher since each obstructing ship with tactical scrambler adds a green die, so multiple medium or large ships with the upgrade can contribute. Only real limits are how many points are available and if your opponent is going to still want to try and do a moon shot with an Estes by trying to get through 11+ green.

Yup, when talking about this many green dice, it assumes a cooperative opponent; usually they'd prefer to just shoot the ship in front instead, cut out all the middlemen. The only time they'd consider the moon shot is against a very high-value target that's worth a ton of points, or very dangerous, or the goal of the scenario (e.g. the shuttles in the article's scenario), etc.

Even with only 1 agility, the scenario shuttle still easily hits or exceeds the cap of 6 defense dice when at long range and enjoying a few obstructions or support abilities (plus the free evade in the shuttle's ability, which ignores the cap). Too many green dice on a kill objective could be a big reason for the change. For example, in a game of Prototype (from 1E: your goal is to kill the enemy's one prototype, a double-cost ship), you don't want your prototype never taking damage because the player is able to cloak, equip, and obstruct it too well.

6 minutes ago, Wazat said:

Yup, when talking about this many green dice, it assumes a cooperative opponent; usually they'd prefer to just shoot the ship in front instead, cut out all the middlemen. The only time they'd consider the moon shot is against a very high-value target that's worth a ton of points, or very dangerous, or the goal of the scenario (e.g. the shuttles in the article's scenario), etc.

Even with only 1 agility, the scenario shuttle still easily hits or exceeds the cap of 6 defense dice when at long range and enjoying a few obstructions or support abilities (plus the free evade in the shuttle's ability, which ignores the cap). Too many green dice on a kill objective could be a big reason for the change. For example, in a game of Prototype (from 1E: your goal is to kill the enemy's one prototype, a double-cost ship), you don't want your prototype never taking damage because the player is able to cloak, equip, and obstruct it too well.

Does give me an idea for an escort squadron for one of the escape missions. A wing of Z-95s for interception of attackers and several Ion/TacScram Loks for screening the VIP.

Who here has blanked focused out on 6-8 green dice before. Raise your hand.

(Yes I broke the focus rule. But only cuz I was being shot at from like 3 different ships. Probably epic)

raises hand.

8 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Does give me an idea for an escort squadron for one of the escape missions. A wing of Z-95s for interception of attackers and several Ion/TacScram Loks for screening the VIP.

Yea, I'm liking the play-counterplay options these new modes will create.

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

Who here has blanked focused out on 6-8 green dice before. Raise your hand.

(Yes I broke the focus rule. But only cuz I was being shot at from like 3 different ships. Probably epic)

raises hand.

* sheepishly raises hand *

I've blanked/focused out on at least 5 - 6 defense dice a couple of times or more... There's about a 6% chance of doing it with 6 green dice if you've already spent your focus/evade, and tokens tend to go away fast in Epic.

52 minutes ago, Wazat said:

There's probably lots of ways to reach 7+ attack dice in Epic or with other new stuff coming out. Range 1 + Trick Shot + Wullffwarro + Jan Ors is a solid basis for up to 7 attack dice already, and there may be more stuff coming out that could amplify it further. More likely they're focused on defense dice, and attack dice got capped for consistency.

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!!!

Standard ship movement instructions

Quote

1. Maneuver Ship: During this step, the ship moves using the matching
template.
a. Take the template that matches the maneuver from the supply.
b. Set the template between the ship’s front guides (so that it is flush
against the base).

(emphasis mine)

But Huge ships

Quote

Both the hook and the hook’s edge should be flush against the huge ship’s base.

(Emphasis mine). I am not a native speaker, but why is that formulated as "should" and not as "must" or as for the standard ships above ("is flush against")? Sounds weaker and opens up for strange behaviour from cheesy opponents.

2 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Standard ship movement instructions

(emphasis mine)

But Huge ships

(Emphasis mine). I am not a native speaker, but why is that formulated as "should" and not as "must" or as for the standard ships above ("is flush against")? Sounds weaker and opens up for strange behaviour from cheesy opponents.

Should in this context = is/are supposed to. So read as "Both the hook and the hook's edge are supposed to be flush against the huge ship's base." It is an instruction, not a suggestion.

4 hours ago, heychadwick said:

These were my important take aways:

ALLIED = ships that are controlled by another player on the same team.
FRIENDLY = ships that are under your control.
=====
Command Upgrades - each ship has ONE command upgrade.
=====
A huge ship can perform as many bonus attacks as it wants per turn. You can only do each one once.
=====
Huge ship gets ionized when it has 6 ion tokens.
=====
Huge ships obstruct. Add 1 green die.

You can add to the list:

Huge ships is "tractored" when it has 6 or more tractors tokens. Affected by having -1 defense die, but is neither barrel rolled nor boosted.

Also: Ramming, esp high speed Ramming, makes huge crit damage to the run over ship, but the Huge runs the risk of

1/8 crit, 3/8 stress, which means loss of previous energy, when running over 1 small ship,

2/8 crit, 6/8 stress running over 1 medium ship,

3/8 crit, 9/8 stress running over 1 large ship, respectively.

Interesting edge case side effect, if a Huge is running over several standard ships, depending on the Huge ships final position, some standard ships might be autodestructed, despite having suffered less crits than their hull, if there is not enough space behind the huge to place all collision survivors.

12 hours ago, Jarval said:

You're capped at a maximum of 6 attack or defence dice on any roll.

So now my Stealth Cloak Obstructed R3 Talonbane Cobra, when shot by Zuckuss' ability no longer rolls 9 dice. Boo.

Edit: forgot that Tac Scrambler used to be able to bump it to 10.

Trampling ships with my Epic monster is something I loved in 1E, and I'm glad that's still around. A fast maneuver stomping a TIE Swarm is likely to cause far more grief for the TIEs than for the bulldozer. Like stepping on bubble wrap.

And for tougher ships there's the potential to double-dip, since plowing into a swarm positions the swarm behind you, perhaps in the path of the next huge ship you're moving. Even if everyone could be placed and there were no instant deaths, that's a lot of damage to survive. >:)

They're not speedy ships, and it's super-easy to avoid them, but the stakes are pretty high. Mistakes are bad , and there's always ionization to line up the cavalry charge.

Now I just have to not stomp allies in the process.

Hmm. Looking through the updated RR I didn't find anything that would block Cad Bane on a C-ROC boosting after dropping or launching a device... So dump a mine or bomb out the back, boost (either forwards or banked), loose an energy to cover a little bit more ground.

Just now, Hiemfire said:

Hmm. Looking through the updated RR I didn't find anything that would block Cad Bane on a C-ROC boosting after dropping or launching a device... So dump a mine or bomb out the back, boost (either forwards or banked), loose an energy to cover a little bit more ground.

Huge ships don't reposition by any means but maneuvers.

Quote

“MOVE” AND “ROTATE” EFFECTS

If another card’s effect instructs a huge ship to move or rotate its base a number of degrees, it does not move or rotate its base. Such effects include: • Barrel Roll • Boost • Cloak/Decloak • SLAM • Any effect that calls for a base rotation (e.g. “rotate your base 90˚” or “rotate your base 180˚”) to occur.

If something tells a huge ship to perform a maneuver, such as SLAM or Ailerons, or 1E's RAC crew , then that would work.

9 minutes ago, Wazat said:

They're not speedy ships,

Broken Horn can do White 5 straights.

3 minutes ago, Wazat said:

Huge ships don't reposition by any means but maneuvers.

If something tells a huge ship to perform a maneuver, such as SLAM or Ailerons, or 1E's RAC crew , then that would work.

Drat... Missed that. Page 31 for anyone else that had the same idea...

Context of my previous post

It ain't the Falcon, but it sure as heck ain't no slug.