3 minutes ago, Wazat said:

Important rules question: Can huge ships perform bonus attacks granted by sources other than huge ship weapons with the "Bonus Attack: " header?

See Merchant One Title...

7 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

24pts to toss Perc Co on all 3 and end up with 1 Reinforce, 1 calc and 2 focus tokens apiece allowing all 3 attacks from each ship to be double modded.

For sure, I'd toss in Azmorigan and IG-88D in there too to fill slots, but...

Quote

Each squadron can spend a maximum of half its available squad points , rounded up, on huge ships and their equipped upgrades (e.g. if the squad limit is 500 points , up to 250 points can be spent on huge ships and their upgrades).

That's part of the example rules for Epic games. My build fits at 248 points, but any more upgrades beyond something dirt cheap, and you exceed the half point maximum. I can see why they'd want a limit. Want a NPE? How about 8 C-ROCs with 36 points to spare racing across the board as a giant brick of doom?

7 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

See Merchant One Title...

I'm not asking if they can perform turret attacks as a bonus attack...

I mean, what if some other effect grants a bonus attack?

Syndicate Smugglers (58)
Ion Cannon Battery (6)
IG-88D (3)
Broken Horn (4)
Corsair Refit (15)
Ion Cannon (5)
Ship total: 91 Half Points: 46 Threshold: 8

IG-88B (64)
Ion Cannon (5)
Ship total: 69 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 4

Total: 160

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZeZ500Z376XW269WW36WWWWW305W308W11WWWWY82XWWW11WWWWW&sn=Unsaved Squadron&obs=

So you're shooting, and at some point you miss an attack. IG-88B now grants you a bonus cannon attack. This is independent of the bonus attack granted by Merchant One or Ion Cannon Battery.

So you could fire Ion Battery and hit, Ion Cannon with Merchant One's bonus attack and miss, Ion Cannon again with IG-88B's ability and miss, Ion Cannon again and hit, Standard primary attack and miss, Ion cannon again and hit.

So if another effect like IG-88B lets a huge ship get a bonus attack, can that huge ship perform the attack, or do all of its bonus attacks have to come from cards with the "Bonus Attack:" header?

9 minutes ago, Enigami said:

For sure, I'd toss in Azmorigan and IG-88D in there too to fill slots, but...

That's part of the example rules for Epic games. My build fits at 248 points, but any more upgrades beyond something dirt cheap, and you exceed the half point maximum. I can see why they'd want a limit. Want a NPE? How about 8 C-ROCs with 36 points to spare racing across the board as a giant brick of doom?

Ow. I missed that.

I think IG-88B might be under the "once per opportunity" rules? I'd need to look through the rules again to find that, but I think it means Iggy-B allows the reroll on each initial miss, but once it's used it can't be used again in that 'attack chain'. So using IG-88B to fire a cannon once per bonus/engagement attack miss would work, but using IG-88B to fire a cannon after missing with IG-88B's cannon bonus attack wouldn't.

@Wazat The full section that you're referencing:

Bonus Attacks
When an attack granted by a special weapon has the “Bonus Attack:”
header, a huge ship equipped with that upgrade may perform the listed bonus
attack while it engages, before or after its standard attack. Additionally:
• A huge ship may perform any number of bonus attacks each round.
• A huge ship can use each “Bonus Attack:” header only once per round.

That first bullet point "A huge ship may perform any number of bonus attacks each round." seems quite important since it does not specify only "Bonus Attack:" headered bonus attacks. Though "Bonus Attack:" headered bonus attacks are limited to once per header on the upgrade. Ref:

3 minutes ago, Enigami said:

I think IG-88B might be under the "once per opportunity" rules? I'd need to look through the rules again to find that, but I think it means Iggy-B allows the reroll on each initial miss, but once it's used it can't be used again in that 'attack chain'. So using IG-88B to fire a cannon once per bonus/engagement attack miss would work, but using IG-88B to fire a cannon after missing with IG-88B's cannon bonus attack wouldn't.

Each failed attack is an opportunity for IG-88 B to trigger. and the Cannon attack into cannon attack was from a Corsair Refit Bonus Attack.

To break it down, *=IggyB bonus attack, &=Corsair Refit bonus attack:

So you could fire Ion Battery and hit, Ion Cannon with Merchant One's bonus attack and miss, (*)Ion Cannon again with IG-88B's ability and miss, (&)Ion Cannon again and hit, Standard primary attack and miss, (*)Ion cannon again and hit.

Well, if it does work that way (IG-88B triggering on IG-88B) I doubt it'll last long before it gets Errata'd. Point Defense Lasers + Corsair Refit + Merchant One + Turret + Autoblasters + Cluster Missiles can launch 10 attacks in a single turn which chain into infinite IG-88B Autoblaster attacks until all 10 attacks hit.

Edit: Wait, I'm confused. Are you saying that IG-88B can trigger on its own bonus attack, or not?

21 minutes ago, Enigami said:

Wait, I'm confused. Are you saying that IG-88B can trigger on its own bonus attack, or not?

Yes, each attack that misses can trigger IG-88B's bonus attack, including one of IG-88B's bonus attacks. It can just keep granting itself bonus attacks until the attack hits. At least as currently written, it shoots until it hits. That's definitely something that will be errata'd, and rightfully so.

IMO, unloading all your Cluster Missiles don't seem like a huge problem, though its wording might allow alternating between two targets; that would be up to 2 3-dice attacks per target. It's just neat to me that a huge ship could spend all those charges all at once on a swarm. But I'm happy to give that up to prevent the infinite IG-88B shots.

Also, I'm really happy that the C-ROC can have Deadman's Switch. That's a very large area to blast on your way out. If only it had a 2nd illicit slot for Cikatro to double-stack deadman switches for 2 damage in a large radius. It's not a massive loss, but it's cool.

Thoughts on Inertial Dampeners on huge ships that naturally regen their shields? IMO it won't be amazing, you need those shields and stress isn't fun... but the ability to park at any time could be really handy.

Quick-Release Locks will be fun after running over foes. Here, I feel bad about crushing you earlier, have an asteroid free of charge. Good incentive for them to not position right behind you, but instead err on the sides... which may be predictability you can exploit.

Just now, Wazat said:

Also, I'm really happy that the C-ROC can have Deadman's Switch. That's a very large area to blast on your way out. If only it had a 2nd illicit slot for Cikatro to double-stack deadman switches for 2 damage in a large radius. It's not a massive loss, but it's cool.

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZeZ500Z376XWW25WWWWW93W305WWW92Y159XW93WW&sn=Double Boom&obs=

Broken Horn adds an Illicit 😎

8 minutes ago, Enigami said:

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZeZ500Z376XWW25WWWWW93W305WWW92Y159XW93WW&sn=Double Boom&obs=

Broken Horn adds an Illicit 😎

Oh my, I didn't see that extra illicit slot there at the bottom. Excellent...

Rose Tico crew. She's really valuable on a huge ship. Free locks for the low price of spending a result on one of your many attacks.

21 hours ago, Wazat said:

Rose Tico crew. She's really valuable on a huge ship. Free locks for the low price of spending a result on one of your many attacks.

I'm pondering on a Resistance fleet using my existing ships, and it's unfortunate they don't get the Tantive. The GR-75 is kind of a weak carrier for Rose. Though Chewbacca Crew is alright for Epic -- he has no trouble replenishing charges, so in practice he's giving regular dice mods, acting like a force charge or Fifth Brother on attacks.

I wonder if instead of Ion Cannon Battery, I should just go with Point Defense for Rose shenanigans... but that's a very energy-intensive weapon! Energy is such a precious resource, and is far better spent on support on a GR-75. It's actually got a pretty neato ship ability, and combined with Adaptive Shields, it's a great ally-support craft.

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Resistance&d=v8ZeZ500Z372XW269W138W173W188WW282W285Y258X5WW175WWW12WY258X5WW175WWW12WY258X5WW175WWW12WY258X5WW175WWW12WY260X114WWWWW69WWWY260X114WWWWW69WWWY300X116W172WWWY300X116W172WWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

If only the GR-75 had Targeting Synchronizer or some way to share those locks. As it stands, Rose isn't a terrible choice, but she's under-utilized. I may want to replace her, or simply remove the crew and redistribute the points to allies. Support crafts shouldn't run too pricey!

I could probably remove Rose and the Ion Turret to free up points for the four T-70s. Either upgrade them to Heroic Red Squadron Experts, or give each a Heavy Laser Cannon (which should be decent in Epic), or Advanced Optics. The astromechs are very negotiable too. So perhaps both Heroic and HLC.

I'm also interested in Veteran Wing Leader for the T-70s, but its text isn't listed on YASB yet. I could trade out the delayed fuses for that. And depending on how the Ordnance upgrades work (Ordnance Tubes + Ordnance Team), I could see torps or missiles being a nice option for the GR-75. Time will tell.

In this version, I like that my support craft has dropped to 74 points (from 93), and the T-70s are a lot meaner. I see them as the workhorses of the fleet, with the A-Wings serving as flankers/harassers and the StarFortresses herding or punishing swarms. Everybody's pretty cheap. I would be open to stripping down the T-70s etc further to add another A-Wing, though I do like the bite I've given them.

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Resistance&d=v8ZeZ500Z372XW269WWWWW282W285Y257X172WWW175WWW10WY257X172WWW175WWW10WY257X172WWW175WWW10WY257X172WWW175WWW10WY260X114WWWWW69WW236WY260X114WWWWW69WW236WY300X116W172WWWY300X116W172WWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Thoughts/corrections are welcome!

@Wazat ?

huh, so no more ion/energy interaction?

Overlapping Huge Ships During the Activation Phase, if a huge ship overlaps another huge ship, it executes a maneuver that is one speed lower than what was revealed on its dial. The huge ship repeats this process until it does not overlap another huge ship (executing a stationary maneuver [󲁡] if it was executing a speed 0 bank). See Example of Overlapping a Huge Ship. Then the ship that executed the maneuver and each huge ship that it overlapped suffers 󲁨 damage equal to the speed of the maneuver on the overlapping ship’s dial.

Oh look, it's Armada! (sorta; bumps only ever resulted in 1 damage through shields)

If a standard ship (a small, medium, or large ship) overlaps a huge ship, it resolves the overlap using the same rules used for overlapping a standard ship.

Huh...they REALLY want us to suicide TIEs into the big guys, eh?

53 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

@Wazat ?

New Republic Volunteers — GR-75 Medium Transport	55
Ion Cannon Battery	6
Ion Cannon Turret	5
Rose Tico	9
Chewbacca	5
Sensor Experts	10
Boosted Scanners	8
Ship Total: 98
Half Points: 49 Threshold: 8

That ship is getting only 2 attacks so Rose isn't bad, but not how I imagined abusing Rose's ability. I was thinking of 3+ attacks every round, and didn't notice the energy cost on point defense. Again, it's too bad the GR-75's options are limited. My first impression is I'd rather use the points on the swarm instead of the support... but Rose + Chewie do manage to make the ion battery pretty accurate. I wasn't into sensor experts until I reread it and realized it's pretty nifty with rose for the multiple locks. Rose can spend defense dice when she gets them, or attack dice when she gets blanks, and start collecting up to 3 locks. Not bad... It's a 98 point ship, but it's not bad for those points IMO. And yea, in this setup you really want that Ion Cannon turret, since it's so much better than the primary.

Hrm... I feel myself becoming convinced.

Probably add Tibanna Reserves simply because everything's so hungry for energy.

On 10/28/2019 at 4:08 PM, Blail Blerg said:

Who here has blanked focused out on 6-8 green dice before. Raise your hand.

Hand held high! 1st ed cloaked and focused Echo at range 3 through a rock. They rolled 1 hit, and I took it!

18 minutes ago, Wazat said:

That ship is getting only 2 attacks so Rose isn't bad, but not how I imagined abusing Rose's ability. I was thinking of 3+ attacks every round, and didn't notice the energy cost on point defense. Again, it's too bad the GR-75's options are limited. My first impression is I'd rather use the points on the swarm instead of the support... but Rose + Chewie do manage to make the ion battery pretty accurate. I wasn't into sensor experts until I reread it and realized it's pretty nifty with rose for the multiple locks. Rose can spend defense dice when she gets them, or attack dice when she gets blanks, and start collecting up to 3 locks. Not bad... It's a 98 point ship, but it's not bad for those points IMO. And yea, in this setup you really want that Ion Cannon turret, since it's so much better than the primary.

Hrm... I feel myself becoming convinced.

Probably add Tibanna Reserves simply because everything's so hungry for energy.

Idk, feels like the GR-75's support capabilities are going to be integral to keeping your ships alive given the volume of firepower you're likely to run into

At first glance, seems that Adaptive Shields is the big "thing." Alongside coordinate shenanigans, it lets the GR-75 contribute while remaining outside Range 0-3 of the enemy. It'll probably also protect your "big deal" pilots that'd probably just get diced off the table, otherwise. And don't forget Leia!

I can already imagine the silliness of someone like Vennie staring down entire fleets thanks to the GR-75 at his back.

Then again, I don't think the GR-75 is going to keep up with a gaggle of RZ-2s. A full on Ion offense variant would probably be your go-to there.

11 hours ago, Wazat said:

If only the GR-75 had Targeting Synchronizer or some way to share those locks

Could you not get some of this effect with Holdo crew?

Nice to see quick build hasn't been forgotten - in the epic ships summary - covering one of the persistent questions on scoring in quick build games:

• "If players are using Quick Builds and threat values (󲐉), standard scoring is determined as follows:
  • A player’s standard score is determined by totaling the 󲐉 of each enemy Quick Build ship that was destroyed or fled, plus half the 󲐉 of each enemy Quick Build ship at half health, rounded up.
  • If a Quick Build contains multiple ships (such as a Wing Quick Build), score it as if it were a single ship. Add the health value of all ships in the Quick Build, and compare that to the total lost health of all ships in the Quick Build. It counts as destroyed if all ships in the wing are destroyed or have fled.
  • The player with the higher standard score wins."

9 hours ago, Surak said:

Could you not get some of this effect with Holdo crew?

Yes I could, though sadly only for one ship. Targeting Synchronizer is nice because one huge ship could help the whole fleet, especially with Rose + Sensor Experts granting up to 3 locks to anyone who needs one.

It's a neat idea, and it further adds to the support role of the ship. I may end up using Holdo.