The timing rules are a bit vague around resources and how you pay for cards. I’m pretty sure this works, but wanted opinions to confirm.

Pepper Potts says “Resource - Exhaust to generate the resources of the top card in your discard pile.”

Resource rules say “A player can generate resources to pay a cost by discarding cards from their hand to...”

It sounds like the discard is immediate, so I could (for example) pay for Avengers Mansion by discarding Genius for 2 resources, then exhausting Pepper for the other two.

Is there something in the timing somewhere that I’m. Issuing, or is this solid?

34 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

The timing rules are a bit vague around resources and how you pay for cards. I’m pretty sure this works, but wanted opinions to confirm.

Pepper Potts says “Resource - Exhaust to generate the resources of the top card in your discard pile.”

Resource rules say “A player can generate resources to pay a cost by discarding cards from their hand to...”

It sounds like the discard is immediate, so I could (for example) pay for Avengers Mansion by discarding Genius for 2 resources, then exhausting Pepper for the other two.

Is there something in the timing somewhere that I’m. Issuing, or is this solid?

No, the designers have stated that resources have to all be generated at the time they’re spent before they move to discard. So you can’t double use a 2 resource to pay a 4 cost card with her.

Is there a source for that? Not that I doubt, but it’s looking like typical FFG awful wording and templating, would be nice to know where these come from.

The designers clarified that Pepper cannot be used in this way in one of the podcasts that came out recently. There's a thread on BGG with a link.

Also:

Rules Reference:
COST
- If multiple costs for a single card or ability require payment, those costs must be paid simultaneously

Translation: The cost for a card or ability must be paid simultaneously, i.e. all at once. You can't pay part of a cost, do something, then pay the rest.

Just to clarify, does this mean Pepper can only be used alone, ie to make a 1 or 2 cost card? There is now way to make her help pay for a 3 or 4?

From what it sounds like, she can generate the resources on the top deck of the discard pile. This means you can use the resources already present at the time of purchase. To pay for a four cost card, you play a two resource card from to your hand. There just happens to be a two resource card in top of the discard pile the combined resource pool generated from the card that you play, combined with Pepper's ability to generate resources from the top of the discard pile, will give you the necessary four resources. Discard all cards from hand used to pay for resource cost, with the exception of Pepper of course.

You pay for stuff all simultaneously. I.e whatever cards you discard + resource abilities (Pepper Potts, Peter Parker etc) are considered to be used/activated at once.

So Pepper can help pay towards a cost of any amount, but she can only use whatever was on the top of the discard before you start paying

18 hours ago, AshgarPN said:

Also:

Rules Reference:
COST
- If multiple costs for a single card or ability require payment, those costs must be paid simultaneously

Translation: The cost for a card or ability must be paid simultaneously, i.e. all at once. You can't pay part of a cost, do something, then pay the rest.

I look forward to having to implement this rule in practice. “Okay, I’ve got the two cards I’m discarding in my left hand, and my right is on Pepper, and... Now! Wait, I exhausted Pepper too early, let me try that again...”

Honestly, this feels like one of those rules that’s going to break the game at some point...

3 hours ago, Buhallin said:

I look forward to having to implement this rule in practice. “Okay, I’ve got the two cards I’m discarding in my left hand, and my right is on Pepper, and... Now! Wait, I exhausted Pepper too early, let me try that again...”

Honestly, this feels like one of those rules that’s going to break the game at some point...

I'm not finding this too difficult or problematic.

You go to pay for a card. During which you can discard cards and/or activate any 'Resource' abilities to pay for the card. Whilst there is a physical sequence of moving cards around, exhausting cards, using abilities etc - timings wise they're all considered to be simultaneous.

Trying to use Pepper to use the card you just played is interrupting this process. So it doesn't work.

And in terms of managing it, it's pretty simple to place the cards you're using as resources face up somewhere on the table, then once the card is paid for, move them into the discard.

7 hours ago, Buhallin said:

I look forward to having to implement this rule in practice. “Okay, I’ve got the two cards I’m discarding in my left hand, and my right is on Pepper, and... Now! Wait, I exhausted Pepper too early, let me try that again...”

Honestly, this feels like one of those rules that’s going to break the game at some point...

How will it break the game? you say you are paying for something - Use Pepper to generate resources from top card of the discard pile and then discard any others from hand (which do not enter the discard pile until the action is complete), play card and then move on to next action.

9 hours ago, DarkFallenAngel said:

How will it break the game? you say you are paying for something - Use Pepper to generate resources from top card of the discard pile and then discard any others from hand (which do not enter the discard pile until the action is complete), play card and then move on to next action.

They wanted to double dip, using the resource and using pepper to reuse it before playing a card. That violates the simultaneity rule, which is why you have to resolve the cost of one card before a resource in the process of being spent can be targeted by Pepper.

The easy work around is to play a permanent, discarding the double resource second, then use pepper to draw on the now discarded resource card.

19 hours ago, jonboyjon1990 said:

I'm not finding this too difficult or problematic.

Sorry, I’ll add the sarcasm tag to make it clearer next time.

14 hours ago, DarkFallenAngel said:

How will it break the game? you say you are paying for something - Use Pepper to generate resources from top card of the discard pile and then discard any others from hand (which do not enter the discard pile until the action is complete), play card and then move on to next action.

Most CCG style games don’t do anything simultaneously. You pay the cost, doing so one step at a time, then you resolve the effect. If that effect triggers multiple things at th same time they don’t resolve simultaneously, instead having a set order. Truly simultaneous effects are something almost every rule system out there avoids, for good cause. They’re confusing and lead to some ugly game effects.

My concern isn’t with Pepper or anything current, but this feels like a land mine waiting to happen. FFG is fairly bad about not looking to the future on these kinds of “creative” rules, and they almost always end up causing problems.

10 hours ago, Buhallin said:

Sorry, I’ll add the sarcasm tag to make it clearer next time.

Most CCG style games don’t do anything simultaneously. You pay the cost, doing so one step at a time, then you resolve the effect. If that effect triggers multiple things at th same time they don’t resolve simultaneously, instead having a set order. Truly simultaneous effects are something almost every rule system out there avoids, for good cause. They’re confusing and lead to some ugly game effects.

My concern isn’t with Pepper or anything current, but this feels like a land mine waiting to happen. FFG is fairly bad about not looking to the future on these kinds of “creative” rules, and they almost always end up causing problems.

Allowing a situation where you start playing a card in order to get a card in your discard that you'll then use with an effect to pay for the card you are currently already paying for is going to be the more prone to future issues then forcing payment upfront in one uninterrupted by itself bundle.

Also the interpretation that all of your resources go out at once for payment isn't a unique thing across CCGs or LCGs.

FFG is prone to putting themselves in long term untenable situations but I think you have what would be an issue for them moving forward reversed in this case.

Having Potts use a card currently being used to pay for the card being paid would be akin to an effect in Destiny giving you a resource when you spend 3 or more playing a card, playing a 4 cost card with 3 resources, geberate a new one off the effect and finish paying. That would he a messy thing to have.

In this case it's as simple as none if the cards hitting the discard for Potts to recognize before the total bill has been paid.

1 hour ago, ScottieATF said:

Allowing a situation where you start playing a card in order to get a card in your discard that you'll then use with an effect to pay for the card you are currently already paying for is going to be the more prone to future issues then forcing payment upfront in one uninterrupted by itself bundle.

Also the interpretation that all of your resources go out at once for payment isn't a unique thing across CCGs or LCGs.

Paying the resources at once, sure. Combining that with triggering of card effects, not so much.

Quote

Having Potts use a card currently being used to pay for the card being paid would be akin to an effect in Destiny giving you a resource when you spend 3 or more playing a card, playing a 4 cost card with 3 resources, geberate a new one off the effect and finish paying. That would he a messy thing to have.

If that's what was happening, sure But it's not - you're talking about interleaving the timing on paying for the card and resolving effects from playing it. This is mixing multiple discards and triggered abilities and making them all go off at the same time. IMHO it would make for much tighter timing if each card were discarded or effect was triggered individually until the cost was paid, with each resolving completely. As it stands the timing is going to get really weird once we have multiple resource effects going off at the same time.

<shrug> Probably just paranoid about it because it's very different, and I tend not to trust FFG to handle these sorts of things.