Hi,
I am new in the system, so still reading and learning but my quirk were always combat builds and I intend to keep it that way (that's how I have fun in RPGs for 18 years). I hear a lot about Wookie/Trandoshian Marauders melee monsters, Assassin/Mercenary aut-fire blaster crit builds etc. So I would like to ask which ones would you consider strongest and maybe give me some details of how to build them from start?
Thank you very much in advance,
Sounds like you have the primary builds. Surprisingly, one of the best Melee talents out there is on the Doctor tree and not on a more combat oriented Specialization.
Pressure Points
| When making a Brawl check against an opponent. the character may choose to forgo dealing damage as wounds, instead dealing the equivalent damage as strain. plus additional strain equal to his ranks in Medicine. These checks cannot be made with Brawl weapons, but this strain damage is not reduced by soak |
1 hour ago, Benny89 said:So I would like to ask which ones would you consider strongest and maybe give me some details of how to build them from start?
This isn't D&D, going for "the strongest" build might not work out for you like you think. In fact, you'll probably end up in a really bad spot.
Yes, you can make a Merc:Heavy droid, start with a heavy rifle with auto-fire and multi-spec to get Jury-rigged to make auto-fire easier... but...
This is Star Wars.
The Party will spilt, encounters will be diverse, and as such you'll find that either you'll be in combat, and things will be way too easy, or you'll be out of combat and be 100% useless. Factor ins a split party and your game just ended. You'll be like a mentally handicapped Incredible Hulk. Able to smash everything in combat, but unable to go to the bathroom without an adult to help you with your pants. Sounds funny when I say it here, but in practice, you've just killed the campaign for everyone else.
This system has starter levels character much more capable, and diversity tends to pay off more. So you'll find that unlike something like D&D where you need to max-out, hyper-focus, and never split the party to ensure you can even function, in Star Wars, you'll be just fine most of the time. Yeah you might not be able to shoot the straightest you possibly can right out the gate, but when a die roll finds you locked in the cargo hold during a space battle you'll also be able to figure out a way to get out on your own instead of waiting for someone to come help after combat is over.
If you want to be the super-fighter, try and go with a more challenging build. The Bounty Hunter:Martial Artist is a pretty powerful build. BUT you actually have to know how it works to get that power out of it. Just throwing yourself at the other side like a man-grenade won't do it.
But yeah, if you're just out to make the most powerful combat monster you can... this is probably not the game for you.
5 hours ago, Ghostofman said:This isn't D&D, going for "the strongest" build might not work out for you like you think. In fact, you'll probably end up in a really bad spot.
Yes, you can make a Merc:Heavy droid, start with a heavy rifle with auto-fire and multi-spec to get Jury-rigged to make auto-fire easier... but...
This is Star Wars.
The Party will spilt, encounters will be diverse, and as such you'll find that either you'll be in combat, and things will be way too easy, or you'll be out of combat and be 100% useless. Factor ins a split party and your game just ended. You'll be like a mentally handicapped Incredible Hulk. Able to smash everything in combat, but unable to go to the bathroom without an adult to help you with your pants. Sounds funny when I say it here, but in practice, you've just killed the campaign for everyone else.
This system has starter levels character much more capable, and diversity tends to pay off more. So you'll find that unlike something like D&D where you need to max-out, hyper-focus, and never split the party to ensure you can even function, in Star Wars, you'll be just fine most of the time. Yeah you might not be able to shoot the straightest you possibly can right out the gate, but when a die roll finds you locked in the cargo hold during a space battle you'll also be able to figure out a way to get out on your own instead of waiting for someone to come help after combat is over.
If you want to be the super-fighter, try and go with a more challenging build. The Bounty Hunter:Martial Artist is a pretty powerful build. BUT you actually have to know how it works to get that power out of it. Just throwing yourself at the other side like a man-grenade won't do it.
But yeah, if you're just out to make the most powerful combat monster you can... this is probably not the game for you.
Can you instead of this "adivce" that totally does not interest me - try to answer my question about how to build Wookie Marauder/Doctor and Auto Fire combat character?
I play RPGs for most of my life so I don't need any advice of how I should play RPGs...
30 minutes ago, Benny89 said:Can you instead of this "adivce" that totally does not interest me - try to answer my question about how to build Wookie Marauder/Doctor and Auto Fire combat character?
I play RPGs for most of my life so I don't need any advice of how I should play RPGs...
Well, you joined the forum 7 hours ago, so he has no reason to guess that you have a lot of experience. Particularly with this system.
As far as building a melee machine, go Wookiee Marauder/Doctor/Commando with dual Vibroswords with an Augmented Vibro-Motor and Mono-Molecular Edge.
For Auto-fire, (I'll be hated forever for daring to say how to break Auto-Fire) go with Gadgeteer/Sharpshooter/and maybe Heavy, DC-15a Carbine with a Laser Sight and Droid targeting system or alternatively, get Superior Weapon Customization and SoroSuub True-Site System (preferably modded) instead of the Droid Targeting System.
This is largely off the top of my head, so it might not be perfect, however, this ought to be more than enough for anyone.
The last step: find a GM who will stick around long enough for you to apply all these upgrades...
20 minutes ago, Benny89 said:Can you instead of this "adivce" that totally does not interest me - try to answer my question about how to build Wookie Marauder/Doctor and Auto Fire combat character?
I play RPGs for most of my life so I don't need any advice of how I should play RPGs...
If you'd played RPGs as much as you claim, you'd know that different systems work different ways and realize I'm warning you of a bad decision. Just because one game emphasizes specialization and crunch, doesn't mean that translates to another system. If you make a monster, you'll get treated like one.
But, if you insist on having your GM show up here asking for help and largely getting "kick that player out of your group" from most respondents...
Auto-fire monster:
Take Droid as your Species for max Ability flex, cyber cap, and a free +1 Soak.
Take Merc Soldier:Heavy as your Career/Spec
Use your Starting XP to bump up Agility and Brawn so you can shoot straighter and carry big guns
Pump the skills Ranged:Heavy and Gunnery
Take on at least +5 Obligation for +1000 starting credits. Preferably more for money for armor and gear.
Spend 1,500 of your starting credits to buy a Heavy Blaster rifle.
Resolve every problem with an Auto-fire attack.
Advancement:
Max out Gunnery and Ranged:Heavy
Cross Spec into BountyHunter:Gadgeteer for 30XP and get Toughened and Jury Rigged. Apply Jury Rigged to your Blaster Rifle's Auto-fire ability. Buy down to Dedication. Add a second Jury Rigged if you get a second auto-fire weapon later and repeat.
In Heavy focus on buying down the left side of the tree to get to Dedication as fast as possible.
Take Signature Ability "Last One Standing"
Gear:
Get the big backpack.
Get the best Armor you can, anything with Soak 2 will do. N-57 is probably what you want. Upgrade with a helmet package, ion shielding, and targeting computer.
Get Cyber Arms and Legs to up your Brawn and Agility more. And a surge Override Switch.
Guns:
The Heavy rifle will do, but later upgrade to a heavy repeating blaster. Don't forget the Weapon harness. From there specialty heavy weapons are up to you. Something like the T-7 ion Disruptor will make a good "backup" for targets that are still resistant to the heavy repeater, though there's other options as well. Upgrade with removed safety features, augmented spin barrel (if the GM allows) and anything else you like.
Remember that you're a walking weapons platform that will sooner or later be packing nothing but illegal hardware, so whenever the group goes to anywhere civilized, just stay on the ship. As a bonus this means you don't even need to show up to half the game sessions.
Again... you really shouldn't do this. It's just too much. If the GM knows anything about the game, he'll either reject your character at creation, or ID you as "that guy" and decide maybe the group is better without you. If the GM doesn't know... he'll find out fast and probably boot you from the group or terminate the whole campaign to get away from you.
So there ya go. Ya wanna poop yourself, I've given you the tools to do so. Just don't come back complaining that you smell bad.
51 minutes ago, Benny89 said:I play RPGs for most of my life so I don't need any advice of how I should play RPGs...
Yeah, me too. Most of the people here can say the same. So maybe trust a little advice, this game is different.
If you have a GM that only feeds you things to slaughter and never makes you test anything else, then you're probably on the right track already. There's also something to be said for a Heavy with a very big gun, like a Z-6 Rotary blaster. But if your GM is at all interesting, you might regret being a Wookiee who can rip people's arms off, but can't pass a basic Fear check or run across difficult terrain. You can max out your Wookiee Brawn to 5 right out of the gate, but it's not a great idea long term.
9 hours ago, Varlie said:Sounds like you have the primary builds. Surprisingly, one of the best Melee talents out there is on the Doctor tree and not on a more combat oriented Specialization.
Pressure Points
When making a Brawl check against an opponent. the character may choose to forgo dealing damage as wounds, instead dealing the equivalent damage as strain. plus additional strain equal to his ranks in Medicine. These checks cannot be made with Brawl weapons, but this strain damage is not reduced by soak
Playing a Wookiee Doctor Marauder (now Medic too). I can agree that it is one of the best talents for brawl combat, with the caveat that you're just knocking out characters. So they can come back as future problems.
That said, it's much harder to heal strain without rest compared to healing wounds. There is no stimpak for strain. On more than one occasion I have knocked out a character only for the group to want to question them immediately and then I have to try and heal their strain away with medicine checks (thank goodness I'm also focused on being the group healer).
TBH if I wasn't going for healing and tanking as well as damage dealing, I'd want to get the martial artist spec from the bounty Hunter sourcebook. Precision strike, Coordination Dodge, and Unarmed Parry are fantastic talents.
It's kinda funny that that a Brawn-centric Wookiee maruder has a pretty decent shot at getting slapped around by a doctor, due to soak being bypassed and wookiees having so-so strain thresholds.
Same thing with the droid, most of the xp are getting dumped into agility and the rest into brawn, so their soak rating will be good, but not great . More importantly, they will most likely be quite useless at rolling initiative as, if minmaxed, presence and willpower will be meh at best. Meaning that, unless you have someone around to win initiative for you, you will get hammered to all heck and back before you get a shot off, and even minion with blaster rifles pack a decent punch in this.
Also, it doesn't really matter how tough you are or how much donkey you kick, if a moderately armed and armored vehicle shows up, you're toast.
Edited by penpenpen3 hours ago, Ghostofman said:If you'd played RPGs as much as you claim, you'd know that different systems work different ways and realize I'm warning you of a bad decision. Just because one game emphasizes specialization and crunch, doesn't mean that translates to another system. If you make a monster, you'll get treated like one.
But, if you insist on having your GM show up here asking for help and largely getting "kick that player out of your group" from most respondents...
Auto-fire monster:
Take Droid as your Species for max Ability flex, cyber cap, and a free +1 Soak.
Take Merc Soldier:Heavy as your Career/Spec
Use your Starting XP to bump up Agility and Brawn so you can shoot straighter and carry big guns
Pump the skills Ranged:Heavy and Gunnery
Take on at least +5 Obligation for +1000 starting credits. Preferably more for money for armor and gear.
Spend 1,500 of your starting credits to buy a Heavy Blaster rifle.
Resolve every problem with an Auto-fire attack.
Advancement:
Max out Gunnery and Ranged:Heavy
Cross Spec into BountyHunter:Gadgeteer for 30XP and get Toughened and Jury Rigged. Apply Jury Rigged to your Blaster Rifle's Auto-fire ability. Buy down to Dedication. Add a second Jury Rigged if you get a second auto-fire weapon later and repeat.
In Heavy focus on buying down the left side of the tree to get to Dedication as fast as possible.
Take Signature Ability "Last One Standing"
Gear:
Get the big backpack.
Get the best Armor you can, anything with Soak 2 will do. N-57 is probably what you want. Upgrade with a helmet package, ion shielding, and targeting computer.
Get Cyber Arms and Legs to up your Brawn and Agility more. And a surge Override Switch.
Guns:
The Heavy rifle will do, but later upgrade to a heavy repeating blaster. Don't forget the Weapon harness. From there specialty heavy weapons are up to you. Something like the T-7 ion Disruptor will make a good "backup" for targets that are still resistant to the heavy repeater, though there's other options as well. Upgrade with removed safety features, augmented spin barrel (if the GM allows) and anything else you like.
Remember that you're a walking weapons platform that will sooner or later be packing nothing but illegal hardware, so whenever the group goes to anywhere civilized, just stay on the ship. As a bonus this means you don't even need to show up to half the game sessions.
Again... you really shouldn't do this. It's just too much. If the GM knows anything about the game, he'll either reject your character at creation, or ID you as "that guy" and decide maybe the group is better without you. If the GM doesn't know... he'll find out fast and probably boot you from the group or terminate the whole campaign to get away from you.
So there ya go. Ya wanna poop yourself, I've given you the tools to do so. Just don't come back complaining that you smell bad.
My man, I am really moved by yur care about me and how I will be received at table but rest assured! We have been playing together in RPGs for over a decade now. Everybody knows I am powerbuilder and I always make combat monsters so nor our DM, nor my friends have anything against that. They even like it because they don't have to really invest too much mostly into combat, as I am always there to take care of that.
I wonder why people think everybody around globe react the same to powerbuilds. Really, a lot of us just doesn't care. It's just a game and it's one way of playing it.
And thanks for build path, appreciate it.
2 minutes ago, Benny89 said:They even like it because they don't have to really invest too much mostly into combat, as I am always there to take care of that.
Yeah...this game doesn't really work like that, unless the GM is super careful about only steering combat in your direction. It's hard to be super tanky in this game, it's not like D&D. A couple of good hits and you're down. But you can only find out by playing...
3 hours ago, whafrog said:Yeah, me too. Most of the people here can say the same. So maybe trust a little advice, this game is different.
If you have a GM that only feeds you things to slaughter and never makes you test anything else, then you're probably on the right track already. There's also something to be said for a Heavy with a very big gun, like a Z-6 Rotary blaster. But if your GM is at all interesting, you might regret being a Wookiee who can rip people's arms off, but can't pass a basic Fear check or run across difficult terrain. You can max out your Wookiee Brawn to 5 right out of the gate, but it's not a great idea long term.
It's not about trust. I am just tired of every time I go to forums for different systems and ask specificaly for min-max builds, there are always some White Knight telling me how this system is not like that, how I will ruin experience for myself and party, how I will regret it, yadayda. I don't need that. I have great fun playing like I am playing and I am not really looking for that. It's getting old really quick.
So - let's break down this Wookie Marauder then. What could we do to optimize a little bit his weakness to Fear checks. How we can min-max that to also counter this? High Discipline? Does Doctor has anything that can boost his Fear checks?
4 minutes ago, whafrog said:Yeah...this game doesn't really work like that, unless the GM is super careful about only steering combat in your direction. It's hard to be super tanky in this game, it's not like D&D. A couple of good hits and you're down. But you can only find out by playing...
No worries, If I will go down I will just make new character. I always pepare at least 3 in advance when starting new system and our new characters start with same XP as current party always so not much harm done.
Edited by Benny89Yeah, the only thing you can do about fear is stack up on Discipline unless the trees you buy into have the Confidence talent.
The Doctor's Stim Application talent can boost your Willpower, but it would probably be better spent on extra Brawn.
18 hours ago, GroggyGolem said:That said, it's much harder to heal strain without rest compared to healing wounds. There is no stimpak for strain. On more than one occasion I have knocked out a character only for the group to want to question them immediately and then I have to try and heal their strain away with medicine checks (thank goodness I'm also focused on being the group healer).
My group houseruled that you could apply stimpacks to wounds or strain, user's choice. Still have diminishing returns, so if you use stimpack 1 for wounds, you get 5, #2 for strain you only get 4, etc. Mostly the party stuck with wound recovery, since that takes longer out of combat, but there were times they needed to wake someone up after a stun hit.
Green nikto are brawling monsters, start steel hantd adept, get unmatched ferocity signature ability probably take shi'cho knight for parry an non lightsaber talents, go doctor for pressure point... can play it as a zen monk.
To suggest something a bit alternative; an Assassin with a vicious weapon and several ranks of lethal blows can become incredibly powerful despite their lack of direct buffs. I'm not super omptimalised (I am at over 3000 XP now.) but with a lightsaber with a +50 to critical rolls before rolling can get really dangerous really quick. If I spend 5 advantages on critting, I have a 50/50 possibility of killing a nemesis or rival outright, no tricks. The only catch is the assassin tree is very much a sneaky tree with some burst damage; it has no defensive talents to speak of aside from Dodge.
What would help a bit would be a better definition of the strongest?
Damage wise I can't think of something more powerful than anything brawly with doctor when you need to take down the big bad Nemesis.
Killing everything else would be anything with ranged heavy + Gadgeteer to get super cheap dedication and jury-rigging your auto fire weapon(s). To be a bit flexible, you could also get a blaster pistol with auto fire. For areas, you just can't take the big guns unless you are about to invade said location.
Tanky - stacking talents like Armor Master, Enduring and possibly Durable is the way to go.
If you want the whole combat package, it depends on how fast you want to get there and how flexible it should be. The worst I could think of is something like starting 3s in Brawn, Agility and Willpower. Some Species can get one of them up to 4, but we don't know if any of those are off the table?
Use whatever shooting spec you like the most, hired gun career has pretty good signature abilities, add Gadgeteer and rush to dedication for Agility 4, get Jury rigged auto fire on the main gun.
From there, aim for Soak 10+ and further up your shooting by pushing skills and maxing Agility.
The last thing from my side would be that the people trying to convince you not to go min/max didn't make the actual point.
We are not so awesome and refined here to tell you min/maxing is bad. The point is that there is no high power balance - at all.
When you go min/max in pretty much any area, you will break the system. And this to a point where there are no proper challenges left as it is unlikely that you will ever fail anything unless you just roll really really bad.
In Combat, anything that could challenge you will be either unbeatable or just outright one-shot you. Everything else will be down in one turn. The system performs well in early stages or high XP groups, where Chars spread wide in their skillsets. With min/max builds it will get ridiculously stupid to provide a proper challenge as the GM.
I don't know the playstyle at your table and, as a former Shadowrun player, I know and love proper min/max builds. But they don't work that well in this system if you want more than some FPS-Game with Cheats turned on ^^
59 minutes ago, Malashim said:What would help a bit would be a better definition of the strongest?
Damage wise I can't think of something more powerful than anything brawly with doctor when you need to take down the big bad Nemesis.
Killing everything else would be anything with ranged heavy + Gadgeteer to get super cheap dedication and jury-rigging your auto fire weapon(s). To be a bit flexible, you could also get a blaster pistol with auto fire. For areas, you just can't take the big guns unless you are about to invade said location.
Tanky - stacking talents like Armor Master, Enduring and possibly Durable is the way to go.If you want the whole combat package, it depends on how fast you want to get there and how flexible it should be. The worst I could think of is something like starting 3s in Brawn, Agility and Willpower. Some Species can get one of them up to 4, but we don't know if any of those are off the table?
Use whatever shooting spec you like the most, hired gun career has pretty good signature abilities, add Gadgeteer and rush to dedication for Agility 4, get Jury rigged auto fire on the main gun.
From there, aim for Soak 10+ and further up your shooting by pushing skills and maxing Agility.
The last thing from my side would be that the people trying to convince you not to go min/max didn't make the actual point.
We are not so awesome and refined here to tell you min/maxing is bad. The point is that there is no high power balance - at all.
When you go min/max in pretty much any area, you will break the system. And this to a point where there are no proper challenges left as it is unlikely that you will ever fail anything unless you just roll really really bad.
In Combat, anything that could challenge you will be either unbeatable or just outright one-shot you. Everything else will be down in one turn. The system performs well in early stages or high XP groups, where Chars spread wide in their skillsets. With min/max builds it will get ridiculously stupid to provide a proper challenge as the GM.
I don't know the playstyle at your table and, as a former Shadowrun player, I know and love proper min/max builds. But they don't work that well in this system if you want more than some FPS-Game with Cheats turned on ^^
Counter point.... unless using a weapon with blast a minion group with 6 minions in it is going to be on the table for at least 3 hits (you can kill 1 minion by damage and another by a crit, a common house rule is that each "extra crit" kills an extra minion but that's not RAW). Squad rules are any easy way to give a nemesis staying power, and there's the rule to give them an extra action at the end of the round. So it's not impossible or even stupidly hard.
7 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:So it's not impossible or even stupidly hard.
I said that it will get ridiculously stupid to provide a proper challenge. Maybe I should have worded it a proper believable challenge.
At some point along the min/max curve, we will face a tricked out Heavy Blaster rifle that can reach up to and over 15 damage per hit with only one success rolled. Paired with a crit this will melt 6 Stormtroopers, as the free Advantages from the Bantha-Sight and Superior will provide the first and second Autofire hits. Even without a crit it's very likely to get more Advantages, and the mayhem will just increase.
Sure such build won't clean the whole encounter in the first round, but unless Minion-Groups are used in packs of 10 it will be hard for them to survive. And one against 15+ people as a challenge is ridiculously stupid in my books unless you play Rambo in an AoR-Campaign.
My question would be: best at what kind of fighting? Crowd control? Precision kills? Gunfighting? Lethal blows? Subdual-Knockouts? Tanking-Distraction? Teamwork? Lopping Limbs Off? Disabling Weapons? Dueling?
On 10/24/2019 at 3:24 PM, Varlie said:Sounds like you have the primary builds. Surprisingly, one of the best Melee talents out there is on the Doctor tree and not on a more combat oriented Specialization.
Pressure Points
When making a Brawl check against an opponent. the character may choose to forgo dealing damage as wounds, instead dealing the equivalent damage as strain. plus additional strain equal to his ranks in Medicine. These checks cannot be made with Brawl weapons, but this strain damage is not reduced by soak
I had a generic 2-1B medical droid for one of our SW groups - named 'Doc' how original...
his tactic was to get into sneak attack mode like a D&D rogue..... 'Excuse me, sir, while i administer an anesthetic' then his medical programming would over-ride and he'd check them for bruises or broken bones after they hit the deck ....knocked out 2 Gammoreans with that tactic. Fun times.
12 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:Counter point.... unless using a weapon with blast a minion group with 6 minions in it is going to be on the table for at least 3 hits (you can kill 1 minion by damage and another by a crit, a common house rule is that each "extra crit" kills an extra minion but that's not RAW). Squad rules are any easy way to give a nemesis staying power, and there's the rule to give them an extra action at the end of the round. So it's not impossible or even stupidly hard.
Hold on, hold ON!
I don't have the book handy so I can't check, but have I completely misunderstood things, or shouldn't damage "carry over" within a minion group? Ie if stormtroopers have a wound threshold of 5 and I cause 11 wounds to a group of them, two of them will go down? If not, where the heck did I pull that rule from?
36 minutes ago, penpenpen said:Hold on, hold ON!
I don't have the book handy so I can't check, but have I completely misunderstood things, or shouldn't damage "carry over" within a minion group? Ie if stormtroopers have a wound threshold of 5 and I cause 11 wounds to a group of them, two of them will go down? If not, where the heck did I pull that rule from?
You're correct, he might be assuming that you aren't using a weapon that does enough damage. This is (I think) a house rule, but I always factor in Soak (allowing for Pierce/Breach, of course) for the "second" hit where spillover damage is applied to other minions.