6 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

The other point is that fans want an FFG repaint of Plo's ship and feel like they are missing out if that paint scheme is "used up" as a prize.

First of all, we already have two publicly available designs. I will be surprised if we get more for this ship.

But, for the sake of argument, let's suppose that at some point in the future a third is released. Aren't there different paint schemes for every (or at least most) Jedi? Do you anticipate all of them being publicly released repaints? If not, which ones would be "safe" to use for tournament prizes?

27 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

If not, which ones would be "safe" to use for tournament prizes?

Well, the ones I don't want. Duh. 🤣

Quote

First of all, we already have two publically available designs. I will be surprised if we get more for this ship.

But, for the sake of argument, let's suppose that at some point in the future a third is released. Aren't there different paint schemes for every (or at least most) Jedi? Do you anticipate all of them being publically released repaints?

Well, this is a pretty special ship in that it does have a lot of options.

But since Repaints as Prizes is now an official thing, I suspect that stuff like the Inferno Squadron TIE or Prototype Stripe Defender could also happen this way. I, personally, would be bummed if alternate paint jobs stopped being part of the Waves for Public Consumption and just became Attendance Limited Editions.

Because I like them and I want to buy them, but I'm not going to jump thru hoops for them. And if you would like multiples, that definitely can't happen.

Which is why this is a bitter topic for some players. As was stated earlier, issuing alt art ships just seems to cross an invisible line of exclusivity in a way that cards and chits doesn't.

Just now, Darth Meanie said:

But since Repaints as Prizes is now an official thing, I suspect that stuff like the Inferno Squadron TIE or Prototype Stripe Defender could also happen this way. I, personally, would be bummed if alternate paint jobs stopped being part of the Waves for Public Consumption and just became Attendance Limited Editions.

Because I like them and I want to buy them, but I'm not going to jump thru hoops for them.

Which is why this is a bitter topic for some players. As was stated earlier, issuing alt art ships just seems to cross an invisible line in a way that cards and chits doesn't.

Well here’s a deal for you... if I win an Inferno squad Tie fighter at a future, I am happy to negotiate reasonable terms to get it to you! I have no excitement for the Infernos, and so far I have more than enough Tie/LNs to fly the lists I want to fly. Unless I purposefully go for max allowed ties in some huge ship epic mission or something like that, but I’d just be proxying FOs at that point because I’d be using wings anyway.

(full disclosure I’m not responsible if they put out an inferno at an event I can’t or won’t be making - solely responsible for one where I happen to be there already)

I don’t know what they’ll do for releases of alternate paint. I think it’ll be a while before we see them because they are busy re-releasing everything into 2.0, though I’ll point out that several ships have entered the game with new paint (scyk, z95, the rebel Awing that’s coming in wave 6, etc). It is definitely possible the 2.0 rerelease of some of your old favorites may show up in new paint by virtue of rerelease.

As far as the invisible line, I guess I don’t see it (pun included). The objection would be “here is special content that alters the game and you can’t have it!” for me, as well as many others who think the alt models are fine.

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Yeah, I guess I just can't easily swallow the "It matters for some but shouldn't matter to the rest" position.

I also find the "Life isn't fair" counterargument fairly disingenuous also. Yeah, life isn't fair. So I play Little Toy Spaceships to get away from all that. But then the "We Are the 1% With Plo And You Can't Be Mad Because We Earned It" faction shows up in XWM, and my escapist hobby just looks like the real world again.

😥

Calling people that can afford to call in sick to work, buy a plane ticket and crash on the floor of someone's AirBnb "the 1%" is pretty hilarious. Also comparing X-Wing alt-art accessibility to issues like income inequality where people cannot afford basic life necessities like healthy food water education and medicine would be hilarious if it wasn't so terrible.

Is an X-Wing alt-art a basic life necessity that you are being deprived of? Are you going to compare your plight of not having the most prettiest space toy to people who are being deprived of basic needs because of corporate greed? Seems kind of petty doesn't it?

26 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

I’ll point out that several ships have entered the game with new paint (scyk, z95, the rebel Awing that’s coming in wave 6, etc). It is definitely possible the 2.0 rerelease of some of your old favorites may show up in new paint by virtue of rerelease.

And I'll point out that I have purchased all those models, even if I already had them in spades. Either that proves that I'll put my money where my mouth is, I'm an idiot when it comes to collecting, or I'm too lazy to put in the effort it takes to get a special-special repaint. Likely all 3.

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The objection would be “here is special content that alters the game and you can’t have it!” for me, as well as many others who think the alt models are fine.

Yeah, I guess that would only annoy me at the same level as repaints, because at the dining room table I'm unlikely to ever encounter it. So it would still fall into the same category of "you could have this, but you can't."

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Well here’s a deal for you... if I win an Inferno squad Tie fighter at a future, I am happy to negotiate reasonable terms to get it to you!

That's very kind. 😊

*****

In any event, I've been carrying the torch for far too many posts on a topic that wasn't even of my creation. So, just gonna go talk about Huges on November 8.

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

But since Repaints as Prizes is now an official thing, I suspect that stuff like the Inferno Squadron TIE or Prototype Stripe Defender could also happen this way. I, personally, would be bummed if alternate paint jobs stopped being part of the Waves for Public Consumption and just became Attendance Limited Editions.

I can't say that every possible repaint will be publicly available, but the fact that we already have two ships with multiple versions makes me think more could very well come in the future.

Darth: You complained nonstop for months about the creation of Second Edition and everything wrong with it even though you had never played the game. Now you are complaining about tournament prize support but you don’t go to tournaments...

All of this bickering is pointless...

Everyone that wants to buy this alt-art, email WG and explain your interest. If they are in business to make money and see enough interest from the customers (us)...what do think their reaction will be?

I plan to write them an email and ask that they make this ship available to buy in 2020 and to continue releasing alt-art ships as I have interest and will continue adding to my collection.

9 hours ago, Old Sarge said:

Darth: You complained nonstop for months about the creation of Second Edition and everything wrong with it even though you had never played the game. Now you are complaining about tournament prize support but you don’t go to tournaments...

Are you aware of what this thread is about? Here, let me sum up:

TL/DR (too excited to attack DM): Some people are bitter that certain ships are not available to players unless they attend a tournament.

Q: Who is affected?

A: Players that do not attend tournaments.

Q: Is DM affected?

A: Yes.

Q: Can DM have an opinion on the matter?

A: Only if Old Sarge thinks its relevant.

A. Yes.

And I was going to let this lie, but what the heck:

17 hours ago, Tvboy said:

Calling people that can afford to call in sick to work, buy a plane ticket and crash on the floor of someone's AirBnb "the 1%" is pretty hilarious. Also comparing X-Wing alt-art accessibility to issues like income inequality where people cannot afford basic life necessities like healthy food water education and medicine would be hilarious if it wasn't so terrible.

Is an X-Wing alt-art a basic life necessity that you are being deprived of? Are you going to compare your plight of not having the most prettiest space toy to people who are being deprived of basic needs because of corporate greed? Seems kind of petty doesn't it?

Well, let's dig into this, shall we?

We have the 1% at the top, who are already the best of the best and would have gone to the convention with or without a toy ship as a prize. Yet, when the system is criticized as unfair, the argument is they have "earned" this perk for doing what they would do anyways, or that they "need" this perk to defray the costs of doing what they voluntarily chose to do in the first place. Neither of which is inherently true.

We have those that think the system is fine as is, because if you can't get what you want it's because you haven't worked hard enough, are too lazy to go to tournaments, and therefore must be "entitled" and/or seeking handouts for something you have no business demanding, and it's your own **** fault you don't have a toy.

We have those that are fine with the system as is, because it doesn't really affect what they want/receive, and so the status quo isn't broken enough to warrant action/criticism.

We have those who think the system is not fine, but are up against a gigantic corporation who has already made a decision about how things are going to be, and thus whose only recourse is to publicly display their displeasure, and hope that weight of numbers might begin to cause the wheels of change to move.

And we have those that love the system as is, because it creates an artificial scarcity that allows for profits, and defend price gouging as just good ol' Capitalism, even though actual capitalism is not supposed to work that way. (A large demand for repaints = a large supply of repaints.)

I don't know, maybe I'm silly for seeing parallels between attitudes about little toy space ships and society at large.

And given that I am clearly in the SPACESHIPS FOR ALL camp, I leave it to you to divine where I fall in the socio-political spectrum about the tragedies of unequal access, unequal distribution, and unequal opportunities in the real world, despite using it as an analogy to a toy game.

4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

<long list>

...and then you have those who can see that tournaments need prizes, and can only think of three possibilities:

1. Things people don't value

2. Things people value but which don't impact the game

3. Things people value which impact the game.

Having played games with 3, I'm absolutely against that, and 1 doesn't sound like it would drive much excitement for the tournament. That leaves us with 2.

So, why Plo rather than some completely original paint job? Well, besides the point that such an approach could well mean that Plo never appears at all, there's the fact that it doesn't really fix the issue. Sure, you personally may not be as desirous of an FFG-themed Aethersprite, but someone would still want it, and we'd just have them complaining in the thread instead.

Case in point: look at the reaction people had to the shiny Vulture, which was much closer to an FFG-exclusive design.

@Darth Meanie - not all of us would have tried for Worlds if it weren’t for the prize options. It was the prize article combined with “hey here’s this last chance to qualify!” that sold me. I knew I’d either get in and get the Plo Model the earned way, or I’d qualify for side events and bum around playing xwing and might be able to afford the ship via prize tickets.

In either case, it piqued my interest far more than alt art cards do, in no short reason because I find it more useful (can place it in any list with a delta fighter as opposed to a specific card for a specific pilot, etc).

So, before you say “those folks would have gone anyway,” that’s not entirely true. The ones with invites and who go year after year would have, sure. But not the scrubs that manage to sneak in

Will it hurt anyone if FFG released the alt-art ships to the public?

13 minutes ago, Sasebo75 said:

Will it hurt anyone if FFG released the alt-art ships to the public?

In what way?

12 hours ago, Old Sarge said:

Darth: You complained nonstop for months about the creation of Second Edition and everything wrong with it even though you had never played the game. Now you are complaining about tournament prize support but you don’t go to tournaments...

Its almost like @Darth Meanie is the problem, and not FFG

I think we should be able to have a discussion without personal attacks.

1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

@Darth Meanie - not all of us would have tried for Worlds if it weren’t for the prize options. It was the prize article combined with “hey here’s this last chance to qualify!” that sold me. I knew I’d either get in and get the Plo Model the earned way, or I’d qualify for side events and bum around playing xwing and might be able to afford the ship via prize tickets.

In either case, it piqued my interest far more than alt art cards do, in no short reason because I find it more useful (can place it in any list with a delta fighter as opposed to a specific card for a specific pilot, etc).

So, before you say “those folks would have gone anyway,” that’s not entirely true. The ones with invites and who go year after year would have, sure. But not the scrubs that manage to sneak in

I know. And I also have positive online vibes about you, so I hope you are not taking all of this personally.

Nor are all of my statements about prize ships meant to be a direct reflection of how people who have stated a position on this issue then also see the world at large.

I was going to let the whole thing lie until Sarge decided to take a dump on me without making a meaningful contribution to the actual issue. And what TVBoy said bothered me, so despite trying to walk away I didn't.

But now I'm going to log off for the day, because little tiny spaceships isn't being fun currently.

I personally came home from Worlds with two Plos. (Washed out and farmed tickets with the pod people.) Sold one online and sold the second to a local player for half the price of the online sale. I also drove 6 hours to a SOS, and 4 and 3 hours to two different HST. I bought a plane ticket and paid for an Air BnB at World's. Add in some food, an Uber to and from the airport and going to Worlds cost me around $350. If the Plo alt-ship was not offered as a participation prize, I would not have gone to Worlds . I could not afford justify the cost. I don't think that makes me a bad guy.

Feeling bad cuz you didn't go to Worlds and also don't want to spend the coin to buy one is OK too. But please don't try to talk FFG out of giving out alt-painted ships. I will say the limited quantities of Vultures at Adepticon is a double feel bad moment.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

And I also have positive online vibes about you, so I hope you are not taking all of this personally.

***

But now I'm going to log off for the day, because little tiny spaceships isn't being fun currently.

Sorry to hear it’s not being fun. Good luck, and hope to see you back. I don’t often disagree because I respect and like the casual side of the game you’re always bringing to the forefront.

I agree that not everyone has contributed meaningfully to the discussion. I would hope folks learn and grow, but it’s the Internet.

I’ll try to keep that all in mind so I don’t get swept up in the broad strokes of side 1 vs side 2 generalized statements. Just to be clear - while I disagree with you about alt paint plastic spaceships and their impact on being prize swag, I don’t dislike you personally and respect the fact we’ve been able to have a pretty good dialogue on it.

2 hours ago, Sasebo75 said:

Will it hurt anyone if FFG released the alt-art ships to the public?

I meant if anyone who received an alt-art ship from either a convention or a tournament have any issues if the same ship became available to purchase with everyone else?

I think it would be cool if they gave the alt-art ship with a base with "Worlds 2019 - "insert city"" printed on it then released just the alt-art ship to the remaining people only without the specialized base at a later date. I think that would be a win-win?

9 minutes ago, Sasebo75 said:

I think it would be cool if they gave the alt-art ship with a base with "Worlds 2019 - "insert city"" printed on it then released just the alt-art ship to the remaining people only without the specialized base at a later date. I think that would be a win-win?

I mean, I wouldn’t be upset at them if they did this. The alt cardboard for Red Squadron all had the worlds 2019 logo on the back so it’s pretty clear where it’s from.

I don’t know that they will do this, mind you, but it wouldn’t upset me. Like I said before the other direction, a good thing happening to someone else doesn’t make me negative or put me in the hole because it didn’t happen to me.

4 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I don't know, maybe I'm silly for seeing parallels between attitudes about little toy space ships and society at large.

You need food, water, healthcare, education, and sufficient income to have a decent living. You don't need a stripey spaceship toy to live. Parallel broken.

By comparing your plight of not having the cool shiny toys that the other kids got, to real issues that people in a developed nation are facing of not having access to basic human resources because of government corruption and corporate greed and exploitation, you are actually seriously undermining the real problems that people are facing.

47 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

I mean, I wouldn’t be upset at them if they did this. The alt cardboard for Red Squadron all had the worlds 2019 logo on the back so it’s pretty clear where it’s from.

I don’t know that they will do this, mind you, but it wouldn’t upset me. Like I said before the other direction, a good thing happening to someone else doesn’t make me negative or put me in the hole because it didn’t happen to me.

Yeah, I wouldn't like to make people feel bad either. I just like collecting the ships (displaying them too) and also playing them. Met a lot of great people in this game through the love of table top gaming and Star Wars. The ships were the reason why I started to play X-Wing and I would like to have the ability to purchase them (all color variants and ships) on the regular if I couldn't attend any of the conventions or tournaments. I'm quirky that way I guess.

1 hour ago, Sasebo75 said:

I meant if anyone who received an alt-art ship from either a convention or a tournament have any issues if the same ship became available to purchase with everyone else?

Knowing it would come out later available to everyone for 20 bucks would take away the special factor from the available prize. That way they could just as well give out a regular pack Aethersprite.

It would not have the regaining value that gamblertuba described and if I would have obtained one via worlds I would be happy with having something special from it. If they then bring it out regularly it would probably upset me just as much as the people that now feel wronged by it being a prize only version.

But people need te realise that the paint job would very likely never have been produced at all by ffg if not for the prize version. So if you dont attend tournaments you would also not have been able to get it. Now you are at least offered 2 ways to get it. Via going to worlds or via paying for it on secondary market.

15 minutes ago, Revanur said:

But people need te realise that the paint job would very likely never have been produced at all by ffg if not for the prize version. So if you dont attend tournaments you would also not have been able to get it. Now you are at least offered 2 ways to get it. Via going to worlds or via paying for it on secondary market.

And that’s for the factory paint job. You can get a Jedi Starfighter custom painted for probably less than the extreme examples of the secondary market to be Plo’s. And, depending on the skill of the painter, it might turn out better than the one FFG is offering.