On 10/24/2019 at 4:29 AM, Qark said:

Clones can share tokens so they don't need binoculars. Just take an aim and share it instead of paying the points to give someone else an aim.

You can have situations where the guys with the binoculars are not in range of the units you want to have an aim. So, you can grant an aim, them move away knowing that the aim will be spent by the people who can use it.

8 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

You can have situations where the guys with the binoculars are not in range of the units you want to have an aim. So, you can grant an aim, them move away knowing that the aim will be spent by the people who can use it.

This situation is very rare and not worth the 8 point investment. Binoculars don't belong on clones, or most troops in general.

10 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

This situation is very rare and not worth the 8 point investment. Binoculars don't belong on clones, or most troops in general.

Oh, I 100% agree....

But that's how I -could- use them if I was so inclined.

Thanks for all your feedback. I managed to secure a victory the other night against an Imperial army. Game had Limited Visibility, Major Offensive, and Key Positions. Imperial had 10 units vs GAR had 8 units.

I have one complaint about GAR: Lack of surge abilities. It was annoying AF that my opponent doesn't need surge tokens as they convert most of their offense and defense dice. Just a minor rant. I know GAR is a young faction, and better units are coming. But it can get frustrating. I'm sure I'm playing GAR wrong. So educate me, please.

I LOVE and hate Death Troopers. I tried focus firing them for 2 turns and only killed 2 models. I said, "Screw it!", and focused on everything else, especially core units.

I held back Obi to help support my troopers. As soon as the 4x Stormtrooper units got into reach, Obi jumped over the wall and sliced down 2 units. The other 2x Stormtrooper units died from concentrated fire.

My lone BARC was an MVP. Held it back until turn 3. Then came in on a flank. This BARC engaged both of my opponent's Scout Troopers, killing the sniper models and suppressed them as it passed thru. Got shot once, dodged hits, and received no damage.

Next, I'm gonna remove 2x heavy weapons and fit a 2nd BARC. Its the only way to have 9 activations. Worth it? We'll see.

15 hours ago, FastWalker said:

I have one complaint about GAR: Lack of surge abilities. It was annoying AF that my opponent doesn't need surge tokens as they convert most of their offense and defense dice. Just a minor rant. I know GAR is a young faction, and better units are coming. But it can get frustrating. I'm sure I'm playing GAR wrong. So educate me, please.

I LOVE and hate Death Troopers. I tried focus firing them for 2 turns and only killed 2 models. I said, "Screw it!", and focused on everything else, especially core units.

I held back Obi to help support my troopers. As soon as the 4x Stormtrooper units got into reach, Obi jumped over the wall and sliced down 2 units. The other 2x Stormtrooper units died from concentrated fire.

Deathtroopers are really good, but you pay out the nose for what they can do. Focusing on stormtroopers is likely the better option, though I've had luck hitting DTs with fire support; if you get enough hits through, even a 66% chance of blocking will fail enough to hurt the unit. The other major option is to use Obi to hunt them down; pierce two will still wreck DTs.

Not having Surges naturally can be annoying, but it also gives Clones more flexibility. Your command cards and Aggressive Tactics to give out surges, and try to save them for defense. That gives you better odds than Stormtroopers have, and can keep your Clones in the fight longer against DTs.

How did you kill snipers first in a Strike team?

21 hours ago, FastWalker said:

I have one complaint about GAR: Lack of surge abilities. It was annoying AF that my opponent doesn't need surge tokens as they convert most of their offense and defense dice. Just a minor rant. I know GAR is a young faction, and better units are coming. But it can get frustrating. I'm sure I'm playing GAR wrong. So educate me, please.

so you understand that black dice are better than white with surge and red defense dice are better than white with surge right? Ok. so stats aside, you can use Aggressive tactics to get 3+ saves on your guys, you can use BARCs to gain surge to hit on attacks with fire support or use rex to gain surge to crit with fire support. If you REALLY want surge to offense, critical 1 can be found on the DC-15 (r1-4 2r, 30pts)

15 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

Deathtroopers are really good, but you pay out the nose for what they can do. Focusing on stormtroopers is likely the better option, though I've had luck hitting DTs with fire support; if you get enough hits through, even a 66% chance of blocking will fail enough to hurt the unit. The other major option is to use Obi to hunt them down; pierce two will still wreck DTs.

Not having Surges naturally can be annoying, but it also gives Clones more flexibility. Your command cards and Aggressive Tactics to give out surges, and try to save them for defense. That gives you better odds than Stormtroopers have, and can keep your Clones in the fight longer against DTs.

Man, it was pissing me off. I used fire support twice with Aim and Surge token sharing against Death Troopers. My attack rolls resulted in 7 and 9 hits/crits. My opponent rolled all paint except for one blank. He lost only 1 Death Trooper model. It was so frustrating. I knew before the game started that I needed to focus fire on Death Troopers. But that was just ridiculous. Each of my volley's attack pool had 2x Red, 6x White, and 9 Black. Come on!

When the Death Troopers returned fire, they rolled pretty average. With average means more hits because of default surging (without spending tokens). My defense rolls were average but without default surging I was losing models more than he was.

The lack of default surges for GAR doesn't make sense especially with their point cost. Sure GAR can share tokens. But it doesn't help when you exhaust all of the nearby surge tokens and the enemy is still shooting at you since they have way more activations than you. I will try what you recommend and save all surge tokens for defense.

Thanks for your input. Sorry for the rant. I'm sure by next year GAR will be in a better place. At least, I won that match because I was paying attention to victory conditions. I'm just frustrated at GAR's meta state.

12 hours ago, costi said:

How did you kill snipers first in a Strike team?

My opponent had 2x of the cheapest Scout Trooper units -- Sergeant w/ Pistol & Sniper. So when my BARC scored 1 wound after cover and defense rolls, he had to remove the non-leader model -- sniper.

8 hours ago, Cleto0 said:

so you understand that black dice are better than white with surge and red defense dice are better than white with surge right? Ok. so stats aside, you can use Aggressive tactics to get 3+ saves on your guys, you can use BARCs to gain surge to hit on attacks with fire support or use rex to gain surge to crit with fire support. If you REALLY want surge to offense, critical 1 can be found on the DC-15 (r1-4 2r, 30pts)

Read my above rant reply to Alpha17 in this same post. I understand what you said and I was using them during my game. I'm just frustrated with GAR's current state in the meta.

In a Strike Team, the sinper is the leader model.

1 hour ago, costi said:

In a Strike Team, the sinper is the leader model.

Ah, well that's good to know for next time. We are both new players.

Sounds like your opponent had some amazingly above average defensive rolls. I know how frustrating that can be, as it seems to happen a lot when I'm facing DTs, but never when I've got them. Blanks for days then. Anywho, good luck in the future. If you run into that again, don't waste time shooting at them, send in Kenobi. Pierce 2 will ruin a DT squad's day.

12 hours ago, FastWalker said:

The lack of default surges for GAR doesn't make sense especially with their point cost. Sure GAR can share tokens. But it doesn't help when you exhaust all of the nearby surge tokens and the enemy is still shooting at you since they have way more activations than you. I will try what you recommend and save all surge tokens for defense

I'm sorry, you are wrong. The lack of native surges makes TOTAL sense. they have the better dice of the rebel army and the better defense of the empire's army at the cost of 8 points per unit. You can also get surges by using synergies with the army. Nothing is supposed to just roll you 9 hits automatically. A good player would understand the math behind these units. You literally cannot complain about native surges because you do not understand the math behind them. Not trying to tear you down, just knocking some sense into you. As for activation control, that is why GAR is in a semi tight spot right now. They can get 8 activations consistently, which can put them at a 4 activation disadvantage in some cases. This will most likely be mitigated over time (new faction!). I think r2 and 3p0 and Rex is mandatory right now to get 9-10 acts.

4 hours ago, Cleto0 said:

I'm sorry, you are wrong. The lack of native surges makes TOTAL sense. they have the better dice of the rebel army and the better defense of the empire's army at the cost of 8 points per unit. You can also get surges by using synergies with the army. Nothing is supposed to just roll you 9 hits automatically. A good player would understand the math behind these units. You literally cannot complain about native surges because you do not understand the math behind them. Not trying to tear you down, just knocking some sense into you. As for activation control, that is why GAR is in a semi tight spot right now. They can get 8 activations consistently, which can put them at a 4 activation disadvantage in some cases. This will most likely be mitigated over time (new faction!). I think r2 and 3p0 and Rex is mandatory right now to get 9-10 acts.

I agree i am wrong. Which was why i apologized for my rant while I typed it. Dice RNG can swing both ways. In most games, both players' rolls tend to average out. I got annoyed over passive mods other units get.

I think my frustration stems from GAR being in what you called a "tight spot". So far, i feel at a disadvantage when facing other factions. Even against CIS. Gotta say CIS's chain unit activation is very nice

Its early for GAR and i can't wait for future expansions. Until then, i will be proxying Phase 2 and the upcoming Phase 1 upgrade expansion.

As for wishful thinking, i wish GAR could have 3-7 Core unit slots -- temporarily until more expansions are released. Because it would be nice to have 9 unit activations without having to bring a 2nd BARC.

=== Question ===

Has anyone had success in using only GAR Core + Personnel without Heavy Weapons?

How does this GAR army build look ( see at end of post )? This is in anticipation for Captain Rex expansion (this coming week) and the Phase 1 Upgrade expansion (December). I figure maxing the number of activations currently possible with GAR at 9 units will help offset any shortcomings this faction has. In addition, I thought about getting as much benefit with Clone Trooper's ability to share green tokens at range 1.

This army build has two Captains both with Offensive Push and Aggressive Tactics on Rex. Every turn, your army will have the potential of having up to 4 Surge tokens and between 1 to 3 Aim tokens. I plan to create a gunline with all Core units and spread out the captains evenly to give maximum benefit of their Aim tokens.

In addition, I added 4x Clone Specialists among the Core units. This will allow the rest of my units to give themselves either an Aim, Dodge or Surge token based on the situation.

Not sure how well this list will perform. Knowing when to use or not use these exhaustible upgrades will take practice. Perhaps alternating between these upgrades would help keep your dice modded during key turns.

Aim True and May the Force be with You.

++ Standard (Galactic Republic) [798 Points] ++

+ Commander +

•Clone Captain Rex† [104 Points]: Aggressive Tactics, Offensive Push†

+ Corps +

Phase I Clone Troopers [103 Points]: DC-15 Phase I Trooper, Offensive Push†, Phase I Clone Captain†

Phase I Clone Troopers [94 Points]: Phase I Clone Specialist†, Z-6 Phase I Trooper

Phase I Clone Troopers [99 Points]: DC-15 Phase I Trooper, Phase I Clone Specialist†

Phase I Clone Troopers [94 Points]: Phase I Clone Specialist†, Z-6 Phase I Trooper

Phase I Clone Troopers [69 Points]: Phase I Clone Specialist†

Phase I Clone Troopers [65 Points]: Phase I Clone Trooper

+ Support +

BARC Speeder [85 Points]: HQ Uplink

BARC Speeder [85 Points]: HQ Uplink

+ Command Hand +

Command Hand: •Ambush, •You Can Call Me Captain†, ••Eat This, Clankers!†, ••Push, •••Assault, •••We're Not Programmed†, ••••Standing Orders

+ Battle Cards +

Condition Cards: Clear Conditions, Limited Visibility, Minefield, Rapid Reinforcements

Deployment Cards: Advanced Positions, Battle Lines, Major Offensive, The Long March

Objective Cards: Breakthrough, Intercept the Transmissions, Key Positions, Recover the Supplies

++ Total: [798 Points] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I'm still not a fan of BARCs, but you don't have much in the way of options otherwise if you're looking to avoid Kenobi/maximize activations. I'm not a huge fan squads without heavy weapons, but I do see what you're going for. I'm not sold on Offensive Push, but it could end up being worth while. I would say Recon Intel on Rex would be be worth the 2 points, even if you needed to swap other upgrades around to make it happen.

Only thing I'd strongly recommend changing is to drop Recover the Supplies and switch to Moisture Vaporators. You don't have the spare units to grab and run with the boxes, which leaves you vulnerable to getting the carriers shot to pieces and the box dropped. Less of an issue on Vaps, as you can deploy them close-ish together and damage them quickly, then force your opponent to attack your murder ball of Clones.

On 11/10/2019 at 7:22 AM, Alpha17 said:

I'm still not a fan of BARCs, but you don't have much in the way of options otherwise if you're looking to avoid Kenobi/maximize activations. I'm not a huge fan squads without heavy weapons, but I do see what you're going for. I'm not sold on Offensive Push, but it could end up being worth while. I would say Recon Intel on Rex would be be worth the 2 points, even if you needed to swap other upgrades around to make it happen.

Only thing I'd strongly recommend changing is to drop Recover the Supplies and switch to Moisture Vaporators. You don't have the spare units to grab and run with the boxes, which leaves you vulnerable to getting the carriers shot to pieces and the box dropped. Less of an issue on Vaps, as you can deploy them close-ish together and damage them quickly, then force your opponent to attack your murder ball of Clones.

Great advice. I'm gonna make those changes to my army build.

I realized I've been playing GAR incorrectly. Creating a gunline with my troopers is what i did in 40K. But this isn't 40K, is it? Nope. Time to get used to making Murderballs with my Replicants.

As for Heavy Weapons, i need to do the same as much as i can. DC15s are perfect with their Range 1 - 4. Funny thing, in another thread, someone said GAR already have sniper weapons, called DC15. Not even close. Not even in the same ballpark. Range 4 vs Range 5 is a big difference. Though, i can't wait for GAR to get their own dedicated sniper team, like other factions have. Hopefully, the GAR sniper rifle can shoot from Range 1 to 5.

Thanks for your advice, @Alpha17 .

Aim True and May the Force be with You.

I'm sure we'll be picking up a range 1-5 sniper eventually, it's just far enough down the pipeline that we don't have a clue when it'll be here.

5 hours ago, FastWalker said:

Great advice. I'm gonna make those changes to my army build.

I realized I've been playing GAR incorrectly. Creating a gunline with my troopers is what i did in 40K. But this isn't 40K, is it? Nope. Time to get used to making Murderballs with my Replicants.

As for Heavy Weapons, i need to do the same as much as i can. DC15s are perfect with their Range 1 - 4. Funny thing, in another thread, someone said GAR already have sniper weapons, called DC15. Not even close. Not even in the same ballpark. Range 4 vs Range 5 is a big difference. Though, i can't wait for GAR to get their own dedicated sniper team, like other factions have. Hopefully, the GAR sniper rifle can shoot from Range 1 to 5.

It was probably in the same thread where people kept calling the new range 4 droid gun a sniper rifle and wondering when the GAR would get something similar, which they already have.

On 11/10/2019 at 7:22 AM, Alpha17 said:

I'm still not a fan of BARCs, but you don't have much in the way of options otherwise if you're looking to avoid Kenobi/maximize activations.

Only thing I'd strongly recommend changing is to drop Recover the Supplies and switch to Moisture Vaporators.

Yeah, unfortunately, i do not have those Battle Cards from Priority Supplies. I will add it to my shopping list.

BTW, i managed to sneak a victory at the end of a Breakthrough game by speeding my BARC halfway across the board into enemy deployment zone. A lucky victory for me since my opponent's Stormtroopers were killing my Replicants in a 2:1 exchange with me on the losing end. Dealing with 2x Sniper units is no picnic. It helped that the BARC was able to move after most of his Stormtroopers shot and his Palpatine was too far away to do attack.

1 hour ago, arnoldrew said:

It was probably in the same thread where people kept calling the new range 4 droid gun a sniper rifle and wondering when the GAR would get something similar, which they already have.

That was the thread. And it was weird that FFG decided to give CIS a range 4 sniper rifle instead of the Range 5. This better not happen with GAR.

43 minutes ago, FastWalker said:

Yeah, unfortunately, i do not have those Battle Cards from Priority Supplies. I will add it to my shopping list.

BTW, i managed to sneak a victory at the end of a Breakthrough game by speeding my BARC halfway across the board into enemy deployment zone. A lucky victory for me since my opponent's Stormtroopers were killing my Replicants in a 2:1 exchange with me on the losing end. Dealing with 2x Sniper units is no picnic. It helped that the BARC was able to move after most of his Stormtroopers shot and his Palpatine was too far away to do attack.

That was the thread. And it was weird that FFG decided to give CIS a range 4 sniper rifle instead of the Range 5. This better not happen with GAR.

It's not a sniper rifle any more than the DC-25 is, they just keep calling it that.

1 hour ago, FastWalker said:

An d it was weird that FFG decided to give CIS a range 4 sniper rifle instead of the Range 5. This better not happen with GAR.

33 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

It's not a sniper rifle any more than the DC-25 is, they just keep calling it that.

Yeah, the DLT-19, DLT-20A, DC-15, and E-5s are all basically the same weapon, just with small tweaks to each of them.

58 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

It's not a sniper rifle any more than the DC-25 is, they just keep calling it that.

Good observation. The art and model screams sniper. But its definitely the CIS's equivalent of DC-15s and such.

21 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

Yeah, the DLT-19, DLT-20A, DC-15, and E-5s are all basically the same weapon, just with small tweaks to each of them.

Yup. The small tweaks are nice that reflect the faction's styling.

All-in-all, I am looking forward to this Upgrade Expansion and its options for GAR, especially the Captain and Specialist. I'll be experimenting with the list I posted earlier containing Rex w/ Offensive Push + generic Captain w/ Offensive Push + 4x Specialists. I already tweaked it by removing HQ Uplinks from the BARCs and adding an additional Heavy Weapon. Hopefully, alternating between exhaustible upgrades during key turns will help crank my GAR army into crazy token sharing uber levels.

What do you guys think about the RPS-6 rocket launcher ? Its great to have if vehicles enter the meta regularly. Plus, its far cheaper to add to your army than as a BARC gunner. Cuz, like @Alpha17 said, BARCs are not worth their points. The only downfall is the trooper RPS-6 is Cumbersome, which is only a minor issue.

54 minutes ago, FastWalker said:

+ generic Captain w/ Offensive Push

Why do you do that vs just taking the clone specialist or hunter?

55 minutes ago, FastWalker said:

What do you guys think about the RPS-6 rocket launcher ?

I recommend at least 1, but that was on the BARC. I have played against them and they are alright, but as you mentioned the cumbersome does hurt

4 hours ago, Cleto0 said:

Why do you do that vs just taking the clone specialist or hunter?

Because i thought that... The numbers looked like... SHUT UP!... J/K!

You raise a good point. I think I wanted Rex & the Captain (sounds like a sitcom) to be Aim token generators, while Specialists generate Dodge and Surge tokens -- mostly Dodge because of Aggressive Tactics.

After additional thought, I believe I wanted the Captain's Core unit will be the Spear tip to my Trooper Murder Ball. As the front unit, this Captain Core unit will likely receive more Suppression tokens than others (in theory). The Captain's exhaustible ability can be used when numerous attacks are expected. Hopefully, with many shareable Aim, Dodge, and Surge tokens, the murderball should be able to dish out good damage while tanking a lot.

Most likely, I will save points and swap the Captain for another Specialist.

Yeah you can still get free aims with the specialists, but the suppression gig is nice... If you go with Captain, I would recommend hunter for better efficiency.