I'm growing more and more convinced this thing is not good

38 minutes ago, Tirion said:

I'm growing more and more convinced this thing is not good

This and Aggressive Tactics are very situational based on build specifics

I think @Qark said it best. The BARC can be good if you can get some clones to use Fire Support on its attacks. Then you are essentially giving clones surge to hit on possibly 2 attacks (If you split fire and have the order tokens). So yes, situational, but I think it CAN be worth the points when used properly in those situations. The problem is that those situations may present themselves a minority of the time. In a vacuum, it's overpriced.

On 10/22/2019 at 11:15 PM, Eruletho said:

IMHO, the reason this card is so conservatively priced is Emporer Palpatine. He can take it, use it to give out 2 surge tokens (great for Stormtrooper defense or Shoretrooper offense) and then refresh it for free at the end of his activation. He can also still refresh Force Reflexes when he does This, which Luke, Vader, and Kenobi can not do. This use far outweighs what the other factions can do with it, and probably is why it is so high in cost.

I think we will see a lot of Force Guidance on Palp and we will see a lot of Aggressive Tactics on Palp. That is a ton of surge tokens each turn. This is the team I would use them with:

Emperor Palpatine (Force Reflexes, Anger, Force Guidance, Aggressive Tactics)
Shoretroopers (T-21B Trooper, FX-9 Medical Droid)
Shoretroopers (T-21B Trooper)
Shoretroopers (T-21B Trooper)
DF-90 Mortar Trooper
DF-90 Mortar Trooper
DF-90 Mortar Trooper
Imperial Royal Guards
Scout Troopers (Strike Team) (DLT-19x Sniper)
Scout Troopers (Strike Team) (DLT-19x Sniper)
All those surge tokens would get nasty really, really fast in that team.

22 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

This and Aggressive Tactics are very situational based on build specifics

Aggressive tactics is so powerful IMO in any army ever with only 1 commander. Give out so many surge tokens its awesome. With 2 commanders, it kinda sucks though because the commander with the upgrade is only the nominated commander like half the time

3 minutes ago, bllaw said:

Aggressive tactics is so powerful IMO in any army ever with only 1 commander. Give out so many surge tokens its awesome. With 2 commanders, it kinda sucks though because the commander with the upgrade is only the nominated commander like half the time

It is of course reliant on having units that benefit from surge tokens, though. Particularly for Rebels, there are a lot of units that natively surge on attack and defense.

3 hours ago, Lochlan said:

It is of course reliant on having units that benefit from surge tokens, though. Particularly for Rebels, there are a lot of units that natively surge on attack and defense.

I find Surges to be at their greatest strength when defending with Red Dice.

5 hours ago, bllaw said:

Aggressive tactics is so powerful IMO in any army ever with only 1 commander. Give out so many surge tokens its awesome. With 2 commanders, it kinda sucks though because the commander with the upgrade is only the nominated commander like half the time

Aggressive tactics and strict orders on Greivous with all those droids....yes quite powerful. Other commanders not quite as strong but can still work depending on the army configuration

About the BARC I figured it was a combination of the speeder bike and the ATRT. Relatively fast and maneuverable like the speeder bikes with the weapon versatility of the ATRT.

it's the health that's an issue

1 hour ago, Tirion said:

it's the health that's an issue

How so? They have more effective health than speeder bikes, and instead of losing an entire model they just get a little worse after being dealt 3 damage (which takes more wounds being dealt to them given their red defense die).

On 10/25/2019 at 5:28 PM, TheHoosh said:

Aggressive tactics and strict orders on Greivous with all those droids....yes quite powerful. Other commanders not quite as strong but can still work depending on the army configuration

Aggressive tactics is the single best card in the game. Said it when it was announced. 1 surge converted on any shoretrooper, stormtrooper, VADER, etc. is well worth the 10 points. easily could have been our first 30 point non heavy card.

35 minutes ago, Cleto0 said:

Aggressive tactics is the single best card in the game. Said it when it was announced. 1 surge converted on any shoretrooper, stormtrooper, VADER, etc. is well worth the 10 points. easily could have been our first 30 point non heavy card.

It's good, but you're overstating it's usefulness slightly if you think it's worth 30 points. Vader isn't even statistically likely to roll a surge in an attack, and he has to be issued an order by your other commander to get it.

45 minutes ago, Cleto0 said:

Aggressive tactics is the single best card in the game. Said it when it was announced. 1 surge converted on any shoretrooper, stormtrooper, VADER, etc. is well worth the 10 points. easily could have been our first 30 point non heavy card.

30 points??!?! Woah it's not that good. Remember it has restrictions. The commander with AT needs to be nominated in order to assign surge tokens. Which limits it's effectiveness. It's greatest strength is on clones though....

4 hours ago, Tirion said:

it's the health that's an issue

I think the bigger problem is that it doesn't synergize well with the clone army. I get that it can give clones surge -> hit which is great, but we will get other options (that are clones) that will also give this ability. Since they will be clones, they will also be able to share tokens and stick with the rest of your squads which keeps them alive longer.

1 hour ago, arnoldrew said:

It's good, but you're overstating it's usefulness slightly if you think it's worth 30 points. Vader isn't even statistically likely to roll a surge in an attack, and he has to be issued an order by your other commander to get it.

I think you are not getting the idea. I think he means surge to defend. If you "save" just 1 stormtrooper you already save more than the cost of the card. Same goes for Vader.

3 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

It's good, but you're overstating it's usefulness slightly if you think it's worth 30 points. Vader isn't even statistically likely to roll a surge in an attack, and he has to be issued an order by your other commander to get it.

I agree its not worth 30 points and on some commanders you aren't going to get as much mileage out of it, but ya its strong and on Greivous it and strict orders is insanely strong and syngeristic. Reminds me of my Menoth army playing Warmachine

4 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

I think the bigger problem is that it doesn't synergize well with the clone army. I get that it can give clones surge -> hit which is great, but we will get other options (that are clones) that will also give this ability. Since they will be clones, they will also be able to share tokens and stick with the rest of your squads which keeps them alive longer.

Rex is a really good example of what you’re talking about. I already prefer him to a BARC (from experience not just list building >tts) for many obvious reasons.
Im going to call it now. When other options are given to the Republic (snipers etc), the BARC will be abandoned in competitive play.
In the Republic faction, every point matters, and it means that even a slightly over costed unit will weaken the entire army.

6 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

In the Republic faction, every point matters, and it means that even a slightly over costed unit will weaken the entire army.

This ^

I do think the Barc will get retro-fitted pointwise like the speeder bikes. I think they rushed that core set into production and hadn't play-tested it as much. Its fine in gameplay, its just not pulling its weight compared to another squad of clones

7 hours ago, Senjius said:

I think you are not getting the idea. I think he means surge to defend. If you "save" just 1 stormtrooper you already save more than the cost of the card. Same goes for Vader.

100%. You easily pay for it and in a 2 commander list, I am still getting at least 10 tokens out of a single Aggressive Tactics. It is worth 30 points. Running a list without it for imperials, droids, or clones is a mistake. People even say "don't bring it with a bounty hunter" I say put it on Krennic and run krennic boba. Still amazing on 5 of 6 turns. The bit about vader: one save on vader fully kitted out is 25 points. Yeah. 25. So sure, I will take a 10 point card to *maybe* save 25 points worth of material.

Edit: @arnoldrew I was specifically talking about defensive surges as attacking surges on stormies and most of the time shores (heavy included) will have the surge. Defensive surges are wounds off and minis on the board.