Just curious, but am I the only one who thinks Force Guidance is over-priced? It’s a card that taps and takes up a very valuable slot and costs the same as a card that can give double the surge. Also surge can be useful, but not a guaranteed use like an aim. 10 points is a big commitment. I would think 5 points would be more appropriate. Take a look at Hope, it’s only 3 points and has an ability that doesn’t tap and gives immediate benefit. I’m hoping FG gets reduced in the next points update.

Are there any other of the new cards that really need to drop (or increase) in points?

Edit: Come to think of it, the BARC may be too costly at 93 with its cheapest gunner. I don’t think it’s base is worth 75. It should probably lose 5-10 points to be 65-70. At this point clones (phase 1s) cost 77-82 points with their heavy. There is no way the BARC is that much more valuable than a scoring unit. If the BARC was 83 points (with its cheapest gunner), I think that would make more sense.

I haven’t played droids yet, but my guess is that Droidekas are having a similar price issue and should probably be dropped 10 points.

Anyone else? Or is it just me?

IMHO, the reason this card is so conservatively priced is Emporer Palpatine. He can take it, use it to give out 2 surge tokens (great for Stormtrooper defense or Shoretrooper offense) and then refresh it for free at the end of his activation. He can also still refresh Force Reflexes when he does This, which Luke, Vader, and Kenobi can not do. This use far outweighs what the other factions can do with it, and probably is why it is so high in cost.

I think Force Guidance is ok, for Obi-Wan at least. He has Master of the Force so tapping isn't that big of a deal. Almost nothing in the army has surge converts and clones can share tokens so you will be able to use them most of the time. If it saves two wounds over the course of a battle (and I think it will do more) it's well worth 10 points.

For the Barc Speeder and Droidekas I'm with you. I think they were designed before the point decrease for Speeder Bikes. Apart from durability everything is worse and/or more expensive. And Speeders aren't even really effective after the reduction.

Droidekas are priced correctly, they have very good resilience and great offense.

5 minutes ago, costi said:

Droidekas are priced correctly, they have very good resilience and great offense.

Not Convinced. They cost 100P and cannot score in most objectives. That alone might drive them out of competition. Time will tell. I hope for the best, because I really love the design. And since there is not much opton for the next months, I will test them intensively.

1 hour ago, costi said:

Droidekas are priced correctly, they have very good resilience and great offense.

53 minutes ago, SailorMeni said:

Not Convinced. They cost 100P and cannot score in most objectives. That alone might drive them out of competition. Time will tell. I hope for the best, because I really love the design. And since there is not much opton for the next months, I will test them intensively.

The times that I’ve played against Droidekas, as soon as the shields go down, the droids themselves follow quickly after. Shields and having the Suppressive keyword are really good and I do think the Droidekas should be more expensive than bikes, but I don’t think an extra 25 points are justified. I’m not just saying this just getting them out of the box, as they have been tested for about 4 weeks on tts. Both units are good and can hold a niche, but I’m not sure if they’ll be competitive. In a private game, they’ll probably be fine, but if you take 3 of each, your list will start to feel the pinch.

4 hours ago, Eruletho said:

IMHO, the reason this card is so conservatively priced is Emporer Palpatine. He can take it, use it to give out 2 surge tokens (great for Stormtrooper defense or Shoretrooper offense) and then refresh it for free at the end of his activation. He can also still refresh Force Reflexes when he does This, which Luke, Vader, and Kenobi can not do. This use far outweighs what the other factions can do with it, and probably is why it is so high in cost.

I hear ya, but Surge tokens still aren’t like giving a Dodge or Aim. Why is a comparable ability card like Offensive Push only 4 points (gaining an Aim no less)? 10 point for Aggressive Tactics makes sense as its giving up to 4 each round without costing any action. I get your argument, but if the cost of cards are going to be gaged by which unit can use them most effectively, then you’ll only see those cards on those specific units and I’m sure that’s what the developers don’t want.

The BARCs power comes from firesupport. Allowing a z6 to surge is super good. It has arsonal so you can fire at two different targets, activating fire support on both shots (with different supporting units).

Just like everything with clones the power comes from how they work together looking at something for efficiency in a vacuum won't work.

7 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

Just curious, but am I the only one who thinks Force Guidance is over-priced?

Sorry to double post but;

When defending a surge is often better than a dodge (assuming the unit doesn't surge natively). On red defense in particular; a dodge removes the hit before you roll dice. That dice that you would have rolled had a 50% chance of negating the hit anyway. So you can think of the dodge as removing half a wound. The surge token is spent after you roll dice. So you keep your defense dice pool high, giving you more chances to block. Then you spend the token to remove a full wound.

Obviously for 1 incoming damage the dodge is better, because you just spend it and you are fine. There will be some number of defense dice that make the surge token the more attractive option. If anyone actually cares I'll ran the numbers and tell you how many dice that happens to be.

So for big attacks the surge is better than a dodge AND if I don't need it to keep a dude alive it lets me improve my attack! Surge tokens are fantastic and I think the price of guidance is fine. In fact I just convinced myself to take hope off of obi-wan to use it.

Edit: I did the numbers. White dice you are better off with a dodge up to 10 incoming hits. Red dice you are better with a surge if you are rolling 5 or more defence dice, better with the dodge if you are rolling 3 or less defence dice, 4 incoming hits is the same either way.

1 hour ago, JediPartisan said:

I get your argument, but if the cost of cards are going to be gaged by which unit can use them most effectively, then you’ll only see those cards on those specific units and I’m sure that’s what the developers don’t want.

That's completely normal. Only Vader takes Lightsaber throw. Should it be cheaper so also Luke might pick it up? Anger is tailored for the Emperor. Make it cheaper so it's interesting for Vader as well? It's just part of the game, that some upgrades work better for some units. You'll have to set the costs so that it fits for the most effective usage.

Obi really doesn't want to use Force Guidance. It's a great tool on the Senate though, so that's why its priced the way it is. Droidekas are priced fine; their shields auto regen, and they can be brutal when played correctly. They should die very quickly when their shields go down, so that's fitting.

I will say that I think the BARC is over priced. Naked, it is weaker than a unit of 74-Zs with only marginally better defense die. Adding the side car slows you down, and adds points to a unit that usually has a tendency to die very quickly. The BARC should have been a bit cheaper naked, or it should have been designed a bit differently, either by giving it Armor 1/2, or or by having the sidecars increase the unit's health by 1.

EDIT: I'll be the first to say, however, that I'm naturally biased against the BARC as almost always hate light, fast units, and likely don't play the BARC correctly.

13 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

Obi really doesn't want to use Force Guidance. It's a great tool on the Senate though, so that's why its priced the way it is. Droidekas are priced fine; their shields auto regen, and they can be brutal when played correctly. They should die very quickly when their shields go down, so that's fitting.

I will say that I think the BARC is over priced. Naked, it is weaker than a unit of 74-Zs with only marginally better defense die. Adding the side car slows you down, and adds points to a unit that usually has a tendency to die very quickly. The BARC should have been a bit cheaper naked, or it should have been designed a bit differently, either by giving it Armor 1/2, or or by having the sidecars increase the unit's health by 1.

EDIT: I'll be the first to say, however, that I'm naturally biased against the BARC as almost always hate light, fast units, and likely don't play the BARC correctly.

It gains 2 effective hit points but loses 1.25 average damage. It does not lose effectiveness due to a model being killed but it does have a damage threshold. It is on a larger base so it's slightly faster. I can see arguing that it needs a slight reduction in cost, but I'd rather they drop the sidecars' cost instead.

BARC speeders have red defense dice and cover 1, compare them to speeder bikes and they don't look overpriced

16 minutes ago, TheHoosh said:

BARC speeders have red defense dice and cover 1, compare them to speeder bikes and they don't look overpriced

What conversation are you seeing? That's what everyone is doing.

37 minutes ago, TheHoosh said:

BARC speeders have red defense dice and cover 1, compare them to speeder bikes and they don't look overpriced

Both units have the same effective health (10 hits to kill on average, not counting cover [which they both have so...yeah]). With the same base cost, the BARC attacks with 1 Red/2 Black/1 White at Range 1-3, whereas the Speeder Bikes get 2 Red/2 Black/2 White with Impact 2 at Range 1-3. Both surge to Hits. In this comparison they are absolutely overpriced, and I'm not sure that potential access to fire support makes up for it.

5 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

Both units have the same effective health (10 hits to kill on average, not counting cover [which they both have so...yeah]). With the same base cost, the BARC attacks with 1 Red/2 Black/1 White at Range 1-3, whereas the Speeder Bikes get 2 Red/2 Black/2 White with Impact 2 at Range 1-3. Both surge to Hits. In this comparison they are absolutely overpriced, and I'm not sure that potential access to fire support makes up for it.

Isn't the speeder bikes effective health 8? I was thinking the BARC had 2 more effective hit points which made it seem not quite as bad.

10 hours ago, SailorMeni said:

Not Convinced. They cost 100P and cannot score in most objectives. That alone might drive them out of competition. Time will tell. I hope for the best, because I really love the design. And since there is not much opton for the next months, I will test them intensively.

most?

31 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Isn't the speeder bikes effective health 8? I was thinking the BARC had 2 more effective hit points which made it seem not quite as bad.

Ah, sorry, they actually have 9. I accidentally included cover 1. So that does make it not quite so bad, though I still think BARCs are a bit overpriced.

3 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

It gains 2 effective hit points but loses 1.25 average damage. It does not lose effectiveness due to a model being killed but it does have a damage threshold. It is on a larger base so it's slightly faster. I can see arguing that it needs a slight reduction in cost, but I'd rather they drop the sidecars' cost instead.

I forgot speeder bikes got their points reduced. I agree with a slight point reduction to bring them in line with speeder bikes.

39 minutes ago, Tirion said:

most?

3 out of 5, which is most.

59 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

3 out of 5, which is most.

oooo cause they are a vehicle... yup my bad

still better priced than the barc which is just a hard miss by the team.

compared to a speeder bike if you give it the RPS which gives it the same dice pool, think it does gain split fire, it is 24 points more expensive and all you get is a 13% increase in defensive odds, while gaining a threshold and having 38% less health.

doesn't line up at all.

11 minutes ago, Tirion said:

still better priced than the barc which is just a hard miss by the team.

compared to a speeder bike if you give it the RPS which gives it the same dice pool, think it does gain split fire, it is 24 points more expensive and all you get is a 13% increase in defensive odds, while gaining a threshold and having 38% less health.

doesn't line up at all.

Good analysis. Unfortunately we’re stuck with the expensive BAARC for awhile.

21 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

Good analysis. Unfortunately we’re stuck with the expensive BAARC for awhile.

thanks and truth

11 hours ago, Qark said:

The BARCs power comes from firesupport. Allowing a z6 to surge is super good. It has arsonal so you can fire at two different targets, activating fire support on both shots (with different supporting units).

Just like everything with clones the power comes from how they work together looking at something for efficiency in a vacuum won't work.

That and it is a natrual arsenal 2 with the default cannons and the clone trooper rifle