*Imagines Carrie Fisher as a foul mouthed Space Pirate Queen in leather, commanding a ship of thugs and ruffians who jump at her slightest command*

Heheheheheheheheheheh

Somehow I see Carrie enjoying that role, given her real world personality.

On 11/2/2019 at 5:26 PM, Stan Fresh said:

No. Leia being Luke's sister, and Vader being his dad, are all ideas that came only later to the movies.

On 11/2/2019 at 7:00 PM, Donovan Morningfire said:

There was a "history of Star Wars" film series that I watched a few years ago, and had some interesting insights into the process that went into making each of the three original films.

And Stan is correct in that the whole "Leia is Luke's sister" and "Vader is Luke's father" were very much not part of the initial concepts; Lucas initially planned to Anakin's ghost show up on Dagobah, before scrapping that and simplifying his work on writing the script (a job he very much didn't want for ESB but had to take because his original choice passed away after she completed the initial draft) by combining the characters of Anakin and Vader. It was frankly dumb luck that Sir Alec Guiness included that brief pause before answering Luke's question of how Anakin died, allowing for a fairly simple retcon of "Ben hesitated before deciding to tell Luke a very simplified version of what happened."

Same thing with Leia, as in the earlier drafts of RotJ, Luke's sister was going to be a separate and brand new character, but again Lucas opted to simplify things, and rather than drag the movie by introducing a brand new heroine, figured he'd just make Leia be the sister and try to overlook/ignore the infamous kiss she gave Luke on Hoth.

Heck, in his original concepts, the character of Luke Skywalker was a girl, so anyone trying to claim that the Skywalker family tree as we saw it in the films was Lucas' idea from the outset is full of it.

While some specific details were still in flux throughout the creation of the OT, the overall storyline was pretty well established by the time the first movie started filming, including the basics of the back story , which would become the prequels, and the focus on the Skywalker bloodine.

5 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

While some specific details were still in flux throughout the creation of the OT, the overall storyline was pretty well established by the time the first movie started filming, including the basics of the back story , which would become the prequels, and the focus on the Skywalker bloodine.

Again, no. The backstory changed dramatically over the course of the movies. Luke's entire family background only came about during Empire and Jedi.

12 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Again, no. The backstory changed dramatically over the course of the movies. Luke's entire family background only came about during Empire and Jedi.

To be fair, the original concepts for Episodes 1-3 would probably still have been about Anakin and Obi-Wan, except Anakin didn't fall to the dark side but was killed by an an ex-Jedi called Darth (which was not a Sith title). And the sequels were in part going to be about Luke looking for his sister.

So yeah, Skywalker saga. It's Lucas's line about the entire thing being about the rise and fall and redemption of Anakin that seems to be made up well after the fact.

3 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

To be fair, the original concepts for Episodes 1-3 would probably still have been about Anakin and Obi-Wan, except Anakin didn't fall to the dark side but was killed by an an ex-Jedi called Darth (which was not a Sith title). And the sequels were in part going to be about Luke looking for his sister.

So yeah, Skywalker saga. It's Lucas's line about the entire thing being about the rise and fall and redemption of Anakin that seems to be made up well after the fact.

Eh, I think it's hard to say honestly. I'm starting to be a fiction writer myself, and I've always had stories that I've "written out" in my head, for decades. It's just how my brain works. I have an idea, I play it out to the full story. One of the novels I'm bouncing around right now, has significantly changed as far as the focus of who is the protagonist, just from me fleshing out the scenes, and finding a different focus for it. To give it a Star Wars comparison, it would like starting a film about this smuggler Han Solo and his puppy copilot, and having this sidekick named Luke from a backwater dirtball of a planet....and then as the scenes were playing out in the outline, you realized "Well crap, I keep finding more interesting stuff about this Luke kid, and his backstory and stuff, and I'm finding way more story emphasis on him instead of Han....hmm...maybe I need to retool this."

So I'm sort of on the fence about when people say "this was in the original concept, this changed, this didn't" etc etc. Because none of the creative process is etched in stone. It all fluctuates and shifts as things go along. That's just how it works. You talk to one of the actors and they make a passing comment that shifts the entire dynamic of a character arc. You hear a snippet of a song while driving at sunset, and happen to glance at a bank of clouds, and the two just mesh in your head to introduce a whole new mystical element or character to the story. You realize that your budget is drastically cut and you can't afford that entire other thing you were going to storyboard, so you have to condense stuff. It's all messy and convoluted.

So, yeah it probably wasn't in there at the beginning, but it also might've been bouncing around in his head as a vague overview of the plot, but not actually fleshed out in detail.

It doesn't really matter regardless what one of the previous drafts might have been. What matters is what DID get produced.

Fan wankery about previous drafts that were abandoned serve no purpose what so ever.

21 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Again, no. The backstory changed dramatically over the course of the movies. Luke's entire family background only came about during Empire and Jedi.

Not entirely true. See below.

9 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

To be fair, the original concepts for Episodes 1-3 would probably still have been about Anakin and Obi-Wan, except Anakin didn't fall to the dark side but was killed by an an ex-Jedi called Darth (which was not a Sith title). And the sequels were in part going to be about Luke looking for his sister.

So yeah, Skywalker saga. It's Lucas's line about the entire thing being about the rise and fall and redemption of Anakin that seems to be made up well after the fact.

Precisely.

5 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

Eh, I think it's hard to say honestly. I'm starting to be a fiction writer myself, and I've always had stories that I've "written out" in my head, for decades. It's just how my brain works. I have an idea, I play it out to the full story. One of the novels I'm bouncing around right now, has significantly changed as far as the focus of who is the protagonist, just from me fleshing out the scenes, and finding a different focus for it. To give it a Star Wars comparison, it would like starting a film about this smuggler Han Solo and his puppy copilot, and having this sidekick named Luke from a backwater dirtball of a planet....and then as the scenes were playing out in the outline, you realized "Well crap, I keep finding more interesting stuff about this Luke kid, and his backstory and stuff, and I'm finding way more story emphasis on him instead of Han....hmm...maybe I need to retool this."

So I'm sort of on the fence about when people say "this was in the original concept, this changed, this didn't" etc etc. Because none of the creative process is etched in stone. It all fluctuates and shifts as things go along. That's just how it works. You talk to one of the actors and they make a passing comment that shifts the entire dynamic of a character arc. You hear a snippet of a song while driving at sunset, and happen to glance at a bank of clouds, and the two just mesh in your head to introduce a whole new mystical element or character to the story. You realize that your budget is drastically cut and you can't afford that entire other thing you were going to storyboard, so you have to condense stuff. It's all messy and convoluted.

So, yeah it probably wasn't in there at the beginning, but it also might've been bouncing around in his head as a vague overview of the plot, but not actually fleshed out in detail.

It doesn't really matter regardless what one of the previous drafts might have been. What matters is what DID get produced.

Fan wankery about previous drafts that were abandoned serve no purpose what so ever.

Exactly.

Didn't this sidetrack start with someone arguing that Rey needed to be a Skywalker clone because that would make the film line up with Lucas' vision?

George Lucas whose ideas were "archived" when he sold the biz?

George Lucas who has basically nothing to do with the film?

And the argument ended up being if and when Lucas planned what?

God, I love/hate the internet.

1 hour ago, penpenpen said:

Didn't this sidetrack start with someone arguing that Rey needed to be a Skywalker clone because that would make the film line up with Lucas' vision?

George Lucas whose ideas were "archived" when he sold the biz?

George Lucas who has basically nothing to do with the film?

And the argument ended up being if and when Lucas planned what?

God, I love/hate the internet.

Figure out how to draw energy from the movement of goal posts and we can scuttle power plants across the globe.

They'd better stick with the whole "Rey is nobody from nowhere" thing; that was one of the coolest thematic aspects of TLJ.

1 hour ago, DaverWattra said:

They'd better stick with the whole "Rey is nobody from nowhere" thing; that was one of the coolest thematic aspects of TLJ.

I hope they stick with that not only for the reason you listed, but just to further piss off the smegheads that can't accept a Star Wars Force-using lead character who isn't linked to some sort of pre-existing legacy.

42 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

I hope they stick with that not only for the reason you listed, but just to further piss off the smegheads that can't accept a Star Wars Force-using lead character who isn't linked to some sort of pre-existing legacy.

And you call people who don't like TLJ toxic...

30 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

And you call people who don't like TLJ toxic...

Given how berks like you keep storming into threads and pissing all over those folks who've enjoyed the movie, as what Sherlock of the BBC show refers to as a high-functioning sociopath, I'm fully onboard of returning the favor such discourteous behavior. And I do find it hilarious that folks like you get all offended and huffy when offered precisely the exact same treatment that you and your ilk of TLJ-haters oh so casually hand out to people who liked the film.

Ok ok, both boxers, back to your corners. Back to your corners. *rings the bell*

In the immortal words of Admiral Tarkin.

"This bickering is pointless!"

7 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

"This bickering is pointless!"

YES! Thank you. Finally someone gets it.

2 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

YES! Thank you. Finally someone gets it.

That was directed at both of you, so don't get too high of a horse there

Just now, KungFuFerret said:

That was directed at both of you, so don't get too high of a horse there

I've been saying pretty much all along that the discussion is pointless, I just can't take insults lying down. I'd be happy if I never heard or participated in another TLJ discussion ever again.

2 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I've been saying pretty much all along that the discussion is pointless, I just can't take insults lying down. I'd be happy if I never heard or participated in another TLJ discussion ever again.

Nobody forced you to post in this thread. So you brought that misery upon yourself, and for that you get zero sympathy points.

I personally find play-by-post games detestable for a number of reasons, but if you take a look you'll notice that I've not ONCE gone into any of the PbP threads and denounced them to the folks participating in those games.

I have zero interest or investment in the upcoming Mandalorian Disney+ series, but take a look at the thread in the EotE section and you'll see I've not posted there belittling those who are excited for it. I may not share their enthusiasm for that particular portion of the franchise, but I'm not going in and belittling the folks who are enthusiastic or trying to preemptively proclaim it as hot garbage sight unseen.

So you just as easily, as an ostensibly a mature and rational adult, could have seen any of these threads discussing excitement for the upcoming movies and said to yourself "eh, not my speed, not interested in it, I'll just move on and not bother with the thread." I've done that with a number of threads on the various parts of the forum, either reading a few posts and moving on without comment, or just using the handy "mark as read" button at the top to clear the cache of unread threads.

You're simply getting the exact same degree of civility in this thread that you've shown to others, nothing more and nothing less.

3 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I'd be happy if I never heard or participated in another TLJ discussion ever again.

Then...don't...participate in one? Maybe? I don't think it's mandatory.