11 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

In the real world, I would agree. But in a fictional world, fabricated by writers and directors, who have ultimate control over what we are shown and in what context, and in a fictional world that actually DOES have magical-like stuff going on, it could be a subtle hint.

Though I do find it funny, that in all the griping about the new films, nobody ever seems to call BS on how Finn was able to hold his own for an impressive amount of time against Kylo (even hurting him in the melee), considering he apparently doesn't have force powers, and was never trained in melee weapon fighting that we ever see. But somehow that's ok and believable, and Rey doing the same WITH force powers isn't. Even though the fundamental lesson of Old Ben's teaching to Luke in New Hope about using the saber is to act on instinct, which precludes actual training. So...yeah, lovely double standard there.

Its all make-believe fantasy with space wizards and laser swords.

What is and isn't BS is highly subjective.

One man's verisimilitude is another man's nonsense.

Such is fandom.

2 hours ago, Vondy said:

Fixed.

I note you haven't actually denied being a vampire 🤔

Double post

2 hours ago, Vondy said:

Its all make-believe fantasy with space wizards and laser swords.

What is and isn't BS is highly subjective.

One man's verisimilitude is another man's nonsense.

Such is fandom.

Oh I know it's all fiction, and I personally don't have any issue with Finn (or Rey) holding his own how he did. I just find it funny that nobody ever calls shenanigans on how he performed in his saber battle, given how vocal they are about someone else in that film.

OT the clone discussion: No clue, it's a JJ Abrams film, so misdirection and mystery box stuff is a major factor to be considered regarding anything we are shown. I honestly don't care how Palpatine is back, whether it's a Sith Ghost, or clone, or his twin brother who was being a spice miner in Glamgor 7. It's all equally silly to me to dip back to that well.

3 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

Oh I know it's all fiction, and I personally don't have any issue with Finn (or Rey) holding his own how he did. I just find it funny that nobody ever calls shenanigans on how he performed in his saber battle, given how vocal they are about someone else in that film.

OT the clone discussion: No clue, it's a JJ Abrams film, so misdirection and mystery box stuff is a major factor to be considered regarding anything we are shown. I honestly don't care how Palpatine is back, whether it's a Sith Ghost, or clone, or his twin brother who was being a spice miner in Glamgor 7. It's all equally silly to me to dip back to that well.

Cool beans.

I didn't have a problem with Finn in the saber battle because he came out strong for a few seconds... and then got summarily owned. I interpreted it as Kylo blinking and saying to himself internally "well, that was unexpected" followed by a more serious "no more games." Finn went down quick and hard once Kylo quit futzing around with him and took it seriously.... "that pipsquek nicked me!"

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 10:58 PM, Donovan Morningfire said:

I'm not so sure there's going to be any big plot twist in this one, at least with regards to Rey. TFA had the plot twist (of sorts) of her being the main hero as opposed to Finn like a number of folks thought, and then TLJ had the minor twist of her parents not being anybody important to the franchise (debunking a lot of speculation that she was the special daughter of any number of individuals), along with the surprise of offing Snoke during the second act. About the only twist/surprise I could see them doing would be having her die at the end, or renouncing her Force user status entirely and disappearing into myth.

Revealing Palpatine to have cheated death (however he winds up doing it) and being the mastermind behind the First Order's actions would have been good to keep as a plot twist, contrived as him being the mastermind might be. But the trailers have already spoiled that one.

I don't know, I never got the firm idea of resolution from that scene in particular which by itself was designed to be as cryptic as a riddle that she didn't figure out at this particular time. She was so obsessed with finding out who her parents were that she didn't pause for a second to think "wait, if I don't have parents, what does that mean?" Them not being important is one interpretation basically the cinematic technique of "surprise! You will find out in the next movie.", but like all riddles they are usually pretty vague and senseless unless you explore a number of similar situations.

Again, to me it doesn't actually matter who she's related to, that kind of information we won't have until it's plot twisted into existence in a dramatic way that ironically will make sense in the context that would have been foreshadowed in the entire series of movies. That's just what modern cinema is all about, setting up something then making it appear implausible then doubling down on the original deal. There's ample time to do that in a trilogy of three movies intended as such; most block busters have the limitation in that the movie's plot must resolve within a petty hour and a half/ two hour and some time frame. I believe this to be exactly the kind of thing they would do with a twist like this. Hint, dismiss, double down. I imagine exactly the same will happen to Kylo, he's conflicted, he finally becomes the dark lord, only turns out he was a good boy at heart the entire time.

I actually really hate that they spoiled the emperor's potential return. Why would they waste their best possible plot twist in a trailer of all things? Probably to condition people to wonder whether he would or wouldn't, so it could be totted as an amazing twist either way.

2 hours ago, LordBritish said:

I actually really hate that they spoiled the emperor's potential return. Why would they waste their best possible plot twist in a trailer of all things? Probably to condition people to wonder whether he would or wouldn't, so it could be totted as an amazing twist either way.

To drum up hype and free press from the fanbase for the film prior to release. That's pretty standard for a lot of films. I recall Batman V Superman did that with the Wonder Woman reveal, which got a lot of people talking about the film again, even though it devalued her dramatic reveal later on in the film since everyone already knew who she was. So all the "who is this mysterious woman?" plot element was wasted.

So yeah, I don't know what the plan is here with Palps, other than to have another tie back to the original film trilogy because....reasons? *shrugs*

3 hours ago, LordBritish said:

I don't know, I never got the firm idea of resolution from that scene in particular which by itself was designed to be as cryptic as a riddle that she didn't figure out at this particular time. She was so obsessed with finding out who her parents were that she didn't pause for a second to think "wait, if I don't have parents, what does that mean?" Them not being important is one interpretation basically the cinematic technique of "surprise! You will find out in the next movie.", but like all riddles they are usually pretty vague and senseless unless you explore a number of similar situations.

Again, to me it doesn't actually matter who she's related to, that kind of information we won't have until it's plot twisted into existence in a dramatic way that ironically will make sense in the context that would have been foreshadowed in the entire series of movies. That's just what modern cinema is all about, setting up something then making it appear implausible then doubling down on the original deal. There's ample time to do that in a trilogy of three movies intended as such; most block busters have the limitation in that the movie's plot must resolve within a petty hour and a half/ two hour and some time frame. I believe this to be exactly the kind of thing they would do with a twist like this. Hint, dismiss, double down. I imagine exactly the same will happen to Kylo, he's conflicted, he finally becomes the dark lord, only turns out he was a good boy at heart the entire time.

I actually really hate that they spoiled the emperor's potential return. Why would they waste their best possible plot twist in a trailer of all things? Probably to condition people to wonder whether he would or wouldn't, so it could be totted as an amazing twist either way.

This boils down to Abrams handing Johnson a hook on a silver platter, Johnson pointedly ignoring it in favor of his own vision, and Abrams returning to answer the giant elephant of a question that he put out there. From Johnson's own account the yo-yo handling of Rey's background was more about directorial ego than good story telling. Rian Johnson is a talented director who doesn't understand the franchise or fans as well as Abrams does. Lucas' vision was that this was the Skywalker Saga . You can argue that ended in the throne room over Endor, but from all interviews on the historical record Lucas' sequels would have been about their legacy. Attempting to do away with that in the eighth of nine installments without so much as a nod was... benighted.

Johnson is on record saying that is exactly what he wanted to do. Down with elitist legacies and all that. Feel good kid with a broom coda, blah-blah-blah. Johnson's film hit some very high and very low notes. It was crazy uneven. Purple-haired admirals in evening gowns aside, his handling of The Rey Question as was the definitive low note. He made Abrams' job a lot harder than need be. I also think its why Disney brought Abrams back. They made a mistake: there was no oversight ensuring the three films had a coherent thread running through them. If Johnson weren't on record saying he was intentionally acting as a spoiler and going his own way I would agree with your assertion: make it look implausible and double down. But, in this case, the director told us what was going on behind the curtain. Abrams is the necessary clean up crew.

Now, I'm not saying Rey has to be a Skywalker. Abrams may well have a clever twist that would be very satisfying and let's him pretend "this is what was intended all along." I await with baited breath to see how he handles the pickle Johnson put him in. The running joke-theory in our house is that Anakin wasn't a Skywalker either. He was Space Jesus and Skywalker was the name he plucked for himself out of thin air because he didn't have one. Rey has no parents? Maybe she was immaculately conceived of the Force via midichlorians and a human mother? Maybe she's Space Jesusa and her legacy is to finish what Anakin began: bringing balance to the Force. That would make her as much a Skywalker as Anakin was and fit with some of Luke's views about the Jedi being past their sell by date. Skywalker = conceived of the Holy Spirit, er, the Force! Right! Erm. Sure. We shall see.

Note: I don't really have an issue with purple hair. A purple-haired admiral in a uniform would have been pure gold.

Would've been even better if it coulda just been Ackbar... *sigh*

5 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Would've been even better if it coulda just been Ackbar... *sigh*

Tradition!

I've never been a fan of the fish-heads.

But, I do I ken your sentiment without necessarily sharing it.

Still... why was she wearing a damned evening dress?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!

14 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Would've been even better if it coulda just been Ackbar... *sigh*

No, it really wouldn't. Ackbar is a joke, a literal meme, and he's only famous for making one of the most painfully obvious statements of all time, firmly cementing him in the "No **** Sherlock!" Hall of Fame. A mask like that is terrible to make lifelike, along with most of the non-human faced alien types. Which is why they have such little screentime compared to the more human-esque aliens. It's just impossible to emote when your entire face is an immobile mask like the Ackbar ones are. Having him be the person Poe doesn't trust would be A) Really stupid, because he's on par with Leia for prestige and legacy cred (I don't know why, but there you go), so Poe would seem really really dumb to go all mutinous on him. B) It would also make it more difficult to do the "which one of them is right?" drama angle that was the entire emotional arc of that plot thread. The diehard fans would all be like "Of course you should listen to Ackbar! TRADITION!! Legacy!! Original Trilogy!!" and all that crap. So then, later, when Poe is revealed to be wrong due to youthful hotheadedness, nobody is surprised. Having a new person be introduced makes it where the person most familiar to the audience is Poe, so the audience will be more likely to side with his point of view, because Who the heck is this purple haired lady in a damned evening dress!?! Where does she get off thinking she knows what to do!? Poe was the hero of Starkiller base and all that!! Which then makes it both the audience and Poe who are shown to be misdirected, by the Heroic expectation in a narrative.

Which is frankly, a better way to go than "Admiral Ackbar because tradition, and also he's right because of course he is, he's old school!" It makes it where both directions have merit, depending on the audiences personal view of how things play out in a military organization like that.

1 hour ago, Vondy said:

Tradition!

I've never been a fan of the fish-heads.

bu....bu...but, your avatar!

1 hour ago, KungFuFerret said:

No, it really wouldn't. Ackbar is a joke, a literal meme, and he's only famous for making one of the most painfully obvious statements of all time, firmly cementing him in the "No **** Sherlock!" Hall of Fame. A mask like that is terrible to make lifelike, along with most of the non-human faced alien types. Which is why they have such little screentime compared to the more human-esque aliens. It's just impossible to emote when your entire face is an immobile mask like the Ackbar ones are. Having him be the person Poe doesn't trust would be A) Really stupid, because he's on par with Leia for prestige and legacy cred (I don't know why, but there you go), so Poe would seem really really dumb to go all mutinous on him. B) It would also make it more difficult to do the "which one of them is right?" drama angle that was the entire emotional arc of that plot thread. The diehard fans would all be like "Of course you should listen to Ackbar! TRADITION!! Legacy!! Original Trilogy!!" and all that crap. So then, later, when Poe is revealed to be wrong due to youthful hotheadedness, nobody is surprised. Having a new person be introduced makes it where the person most familiar to the audience is Poe, so the audience will be more likely to side with his point of view, because Who the heck is this purple haired lady in a damned evening dress!?! Where does she get off thinking she knows what to do!? Poe was the hero of Starkiller base and all that!! Which then makes it both the audience and Poe who are shown to be misdirected, by the Heroic expectation in a narrative.

Which is frankly, a better way to go than "Admiral Ackbar because tradition, and also he's right because of course he is, he's old school!" It makes it where both directions have merit, depending on the audiences personal view of how things play out in a military organization like that.

I wasn't saying the roles should be interchanged, with the characters simply swapped out. I think that it should have been done differently entirely.

The problem with swapping out an unknown like Holdo for a known like Ackbar (and that's before taking into account his EU-exaggerated no-longer-canon resume) is that it completely undercuts Poe's whole arc, of him learning to become a better leader, and of things hitting their lowest point for the Resistance, so that when they finally win over the First Order, the victory is that much sweeter from a narrative perspective, as movie audiences (especially American ones) just love it when the scrappy underdog wins the day against a far more domineering foe. It's after all why the ending of the first Rocky movie was such a shock when it came out, as the audiences fully expected Rocky to win the bout, not lose by judges' decision.

It'd be akin Luke on Dagobah just doing an about face and saying, "Yeah, the Jedi Masters are right, I'm not ready to face Vader. Shame about Han and Leia though." Him staying on Dagobah to complete his training (whatever exactly that entailed, as the films don't really provide all that much) would have radically changed the flow of not only ESB but of RotJ as well. And while that might be an interesting leaping-off point for an Alt-U campaign, it doesn't really make for a satisfying movie, to say nothing of the prickishness of Luke just leaving his friends to an uncertain fate (though it probably would have turned out okay given what Lando did, as his actions weren't influenced by Luke's at all). Maybe Luke would have been a better Jedi, with a more solid control of his emotions than the Luke we saw in RotJ, and thus wouldn't have flown off the handle when Vader taunted him about corrupting Leia.

So either Poe keeps up his defiant fighter jock schtick, and loses pretty much any sympathy for going around Ackbar's back, and comes out looking like even more of a jerk after his antics wind up getting a lot of Resistance people killed. Or, he toes the line to Ackbar, and we get a far less interesting conclusion to the film, as there'd be no dramatic confrontation with the First Order (who would just fly right past Crat as Leia intended) and on final "True Jedi" moment from Luke where he holds off the First Order and Kylo Ren in what is probably the most Jedi way possible, truly using the Force for knowledge and defense. Either route is lousy storytelling, and does nothing to advance Poe from "defiant fighter jock with his head in his exhaust port" to "capable leader that can see the bigger picture" that he became in the film. Also missing out is Finn finally realizing it's better to live for a cause than to die senselessly for it. Heck, Poe playing it safe is boring storytelling from the perspective of a film, one that is intended to appeal to a far broader audience than the self-professed Star Wars fans who are intent on gate-keeping Star Wars and locking out anyone that doesn't meant their frankly ridiculous purity tests.

Plus, the attitude of "well, it should have been Ackbar instead of this random lady with dyed hair" is in and of itself fairly sexist, implying that Poe shouldn't have respected Holdo's authority simply because she's a woman. Not as sexist or misogynistic as trashing Rey for being a Mary Sue while giving Luke and especially Anakin a free pass simply because the reproductive plumbing is different, but not a good stance to take either.

1 hour ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Plus, the attitude of "well, it should have been Ackbar instead of this random lady with dyed hair" is in and of itself fairly sexist, implying that Poe shouldn't have respected Holdo's authority simply because she's a woman. Not as sexist or misogynistic as trashing Rey for being a Mary Sue while giving Luke and especially Anakin a free pass simply because the reproductive plumbing is different, but not a good stance to take either.

That's a pretty big blanket assumption and accusation to lob out there without knowing more about the person who raised the objection. It may well be sexism. It could also be much more innocuous. I know the Internet has rendered us all omniscient psychics who can divine the inner-most souls of strangers in 148 characters or less, but there is such of a thing ask acknowledging incertitude and and giving people the benefit of the doubt. If you don't ask and just start tossing -ism grenades around, community becomes impossible. I don't know whether this person making that objection is sexist.

Some alternate explanations would be that Akbar is a fan favorite as opposed to a canon-inkblot and used properly could have really ramped up angst in the audience over what Poe was doing because he beloved by fish eaters. Of course, that could also be why you don't use Ackbar. Handled badly that could backfire in a huge way. Another objection might be that having an unknown character walk in and steal the moment of self-sacrificial glory when it could have been a coda (and screen time) for Beloved General Sushi-Face. It could also be hidebound fan-wonk traditionalism or the angry cry of liverish litterateurs: "badly written!"

I'm not an Ackbar-guy and I don't object to Holdo as a character. I also think the actress did a fine job with what little she was given. But, I do fall into liverish litterateur camp. Holdo and her narrative role were badly introduced and the dialog needed a solid polishing by the writers to really bring it home and give it a satisfying resonance. It struck me as being ham-fisted. I don't think those scenes quite achieved what they were clearly intended to achieve and , for me, they fell extremely flat.

With that said, however, I am going to raise a sexism-related question. What was with the evening gown? A senior military officer, male or female, should appear in uniform. Indeed, the uniform and admiral's insignia would underscore the authority Holdo was so clearly supposed to represent in the face of Poe's mutiny. Science fiction has a long tradition of putting women who should be in uniform in "more suitably feminine attire." Holdo is not a princess or diplomat. She's a ranking military officer.

I don't care if its a cat-suit, go-go boots with a micro-dress, or an evening gown. The gown undercut the character and narrative goals they were setting out to achieve with her. Give her the basic respect of dressing her appropriately for her role. Which takes me back to my previous point: she was badly introduced and badly handled. It gives team Fish-Head a pretext for getting uppity over not being fed their favorite dish. Though, personally, I'm just fine with Holdo over Ackbar.

After all, the writers probably would have handled him badly, too...

29 minutes ago, Vondy said:

With that said, however, I am going to raise a sexism-related question. What was with the evening gown? A senior military officer, male or female, should appear in uniform. Indeed, the uniform and admiral's insignia would underscore the authority Holdo was so clearly supposed to represent in the face of Poe's mutiny. Science fiction has a long tradition of putting women who should be in uniform in "more suitably feminine attire." Holdo is not a princess or diplomat. She's a ranking military officer.

I believe they described it as some sort of traditional attire for diplomats from her home planet or something to that effect.

@Donovan Morningfire As far as sexism, you are seriously pulling that out of nowhere.

As far as Ackbar vs. Holdo, Ackbar was a war hero and proven commander. The admiral of THE ENTIRE ALLIANCE NAVY, my preference for him over Holdo has literally nothing to do with gender. In-Universe, Holdo was also a proven alliance commander, but Poe seemed to have no real knowledge of her. If I had my druthers, the whole situation would have been handled differently.

As far as Rey being a Mary Sue, I could argue ad nauseam about that, but suffice to say I defended her after TFA, but not after TLJ.

As far as Rey vs. Anakin/Luke, don't get me started. And no, it has nothing to do with sexism. At all. Ad hominem is a horrible way to make an argument, particularly when it is utterly baseless and inaccurate.

49 minutes ago, Vondy said:

I'm not an Ackbar-guy and I don't object to Holdo as a character. I also think the actress did a fine job with what little she was given. But, I do fall into liverish litterateur camp. Holdo and her narrative role were badly introduced and the dialog needed a solid polishing by the writers to really bring it home and give it a satisfying resonance. It struck me as being ham-fisted. I don't think those scenes quite achieved what they were clearly intended to achieve and , for me, they fell extremely flat.

I'm not a fan of Holdo's Sacrifice either, but mainly because I felt it should've been Leia staying behind, as she was the older member of the cast, and they were clearly cycling out the elderly actors for a new generation of people. Having Holdo take over as Leia's replacement, in an ongoing manner made more narrative sense to me, as this whole trilogy is about passing the torch to a new generation. But, *shrugs*, they chose otherwise.

51 minutes ago, Vondy said:

With that said, however, I am going to raise a sexism-related question. What was with the evening gown? A senior military officer, male or female, should appear in uniform. Indeed, the uniform and admiral's insignia would underscore the authority Holdo was so clearly supposed to represent in the face of Poe's mutiny. Science fiction has a long tradition of putting women who should be in uniform in "more suitably feminine attire." Holdo is not a princess or diplomat. She's a ranking military officer.

And Mon Mothma was part of the military aspect of the rebellion, as Wookieepedia indicates with a cursory glance, helping to plan several of the attacks. And every scene of her, which were all military in nature (the briefings, and her content in Rogue One), she's wearing a dress. So, yeah that's a really silly thing to criticize. Leia wasn't wearing a uniform, but she was a general. Also, commanding officers aren't supposed to physically strike their suborindates in the face , but hey Leia did that too. So it's clearly not beholden to "real world" military scrictures.

54 minutes ago, Vondy said:

I don't care if its a cat-suit, go-go boots with a micro-dress, or an evening gown. The gown undercut the character and narrative goals they were setting out to achieve with her. Give her the basic respect of dressing her appropriately for her role. Which takes me back to my previous point: she was badly introduced and badly handled. It gives team Fish-Head a pretext for getting uppity over not being fed their favorite dish. Though, personally, I'm just fine with Holdo over Ackbar.

....really? You can't see past an outfit you dislike? Good to see your problems with the character are literally superficial then. It's ******* Star Wars, it's all pomp and flash and zoom and pew. WHO CARES?! It's a **** costume on a fictional movie! Ackbar's mouth could not make the sounds he's supposedly making given it's a rigid flap that just goes up and down like some mail slot or something. But hey he's able to articulate language perfectly and that's fine! Ships don't make roaring noises and bank in space, but hey that's fine. But a commanding officer, in a DRESS?! That's too far!! Suspension of disbelief shattered!! 🙄 I mean come on.

5 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

And Mon Mothma was part of the military aspect of the rebellion, as Wookieepedia indicates with a cursory glance, helping to plan several of the attacks. And every scene of her, which were all military in nature (the briefings, and her content in Rogue One), she's wearing a dress.

Mon Mothma was the Alliance head of state, not just the military commander. The president wears a suit when planning military operations, not a military uniform. The Alliance (and Resistance) are much looser in their regulations. I really don't care about Holdo's outfit.

32 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

As far as sexism, you are seriously pulling that out of nowhere.

See "unintentional racism" and it's corollary "unintentional sexism."

You and Vondy may not intend for your own remarks to fall into that second category, but that many of them boil down to "I don't like this person because they're female" or "this would have worked better if it were a male" fall under that umbrella.

Just now, Donovan Morningfire said:

See "unintentional racism" and it's corollary "unintentional sexism."

You and Vondy may not intend for your own remarks to fall into that second category, but that many of them boil down to "I don't like this person because they're female" or "this would have worked better if it were a male" fall under that umbrella.

Buzz off! It has nothing to do with gender, at all. You are no mind-reader, nor are you anything of a detective. Do you think that a man can criticize any woman at all, or does that make him a sexist? No matter how reasonable and disconnected from gender the criticisms are?

Regarding Ackbar, where in the current canon is it stated that he's a legendary and respected war hero? It's only on the Expanded Universe (which folks seem to keep forgetting isn't canon any longer) that Ackbar had this great reputation as a military leader.

Going by his one film appearance prior to the new films, he was barely competent at best, and the only reason the Rebel fleet wasn't destroyed was because he followed Lando's idea of engaging the Imperial cruisers at point blank range. At worst, he was an imbecile that panicked until a cooler head (again, Lando) gave him an improvised plan that would still allow a chance for the whole offensive to succeed.

So apart from appeasing the very small number of EU-diehards, what purpose does the story serve by using Ackbar instead of Holdo?

1 minute ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Buzz off! It has nothing to do with gender, at all. You are no mind-reader, nor are you anything of a detective. Do you think that a man can criticize any woman at all, or does that make him a sexist? No matter how reasonable and disconnected from gender the criticisms are?

Don't have to read your mind, especially as you keep circling back on the same few points over and over and over. Again, see the word unintentional .

Heck, here's a link to the Merriam-Webster definition of the word to help you out if you're having that much trouble grasping it: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiEoYGSpMLlAhXvs1kKHSo6B_YQFjABegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.merriam-webster.com%2Fdictionary%2Funintentional&usg=AOvVaw3ojNCAuqc3MJHnd2uTD6lJ

Who needs mind reading when we have your words right here?

2 hours ago, Vondy said:

With that said, however, I am going to raise a sexism-related question. What was with the evening gown? A senior military officer, male or female, should appear in uniform. Indeed, the uniform and admiral's insignia would underscore the authority Holdo was so clearly supposed to represent in the face of Poe's mutiny. Science fiction has a long tradition of putting women who should be in uniform in "more suitably feminine attire." Holdo is not a princess or diplomat. She's a ranking military officer.

Why aren't you asking the same of Leia?

30 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

Who needs mind reading when we have your words right here?

What words?

16 minutes ago, Vek Baustrade said:

Why aren't you asking the same of Leia?

Princess Leia vs. Vice Admiral Holdo. I really don't care though, I hadn't even thought about her dress until it was brought up today.