Just now, TheHoosh said:

I never thought the movie was political till people starting ranting about it, but that is everything now. Movies can't just be enjoyed for what they are they have to be over-analyzed, dissected, and wrung through what politically motivated the film. It gets really old, you know its bad when they say Cars 3 is pushing feminism....its a kids film teaching kids to not be selfish and put others first just like the first Cars movie. Same with TLJ its a star wars movie for enjoyment not a secret plot to change us over to communism or whatever.

It's a tricky subject, because they aren't technically wrong.

Movies are stories told through an interpretive medium and often carry the perspectives and opinions of those who write, direct, and act in them. Sometimes, it's intentional, and can be downright nefarious. Sometimes it's just a reflection of the political climate at the time and the person's beliefs carry into the medium. Reality is very much perspective.

For The Last Jedi, I presume it's probably both. It's no secret that Hollywood want to normalize various social aspects typically associated with the political left, feminism, equality, so on, and likely I would suspect that character designs and plot lines were created with that in mind, even if at a subconscious level. That said, these decisions don't reflect a nefarious attempt to brainwash people or hijack the series, but rather reflect the social climate we live in today.

It's important to realize that all media carries with it the potential to carry the creators agenda, and learn to accept media for what it is.


For factual entities, such as news broadcasters, it can be dangerous and is definitely nefarious to skew stories in favor of which ever political belief pays the bills, but for fictional stories, like Star Wars, it's important to recognize it as a fictional piece of art.

Anyone who does #4 for something like Star Wars, independent of political affiliation, only displays their own lack of understanding.

For me, I will outright mock anyone who uses the term "SJW" in relation to fictional media.

26 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.

A C C U R A T E

43 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

The Mary Sue arguments kill me in a franchise is which the original author used his own name for the main hero.

There's some legitimate gripes to be had from the origin of the term (on the subject of "look it up") but modern day use is mostly a reaction from people who are experiencing a story in which the hero doesn't really represent them very well. There's very much a reason Mary gets a lot more attention than her cousin Marty.

Or a female hero who has no flaws.....

You have a telling qualifier in that statement.

1 hour ago, R3dReVenge said:

Google Mary Sue bud.

We have a number 4 here.

1 hour ago, Darth Sanguis said:

It's a tricky subject, because they aren't technically wrong.

Movies are stories told through an interpretive medium and often carry the perspectives and opinions of those who write, direct, and act in them. Sometimes, it's intentional, and can be downright nefarious. Sometimes it's just a reflection of the political climate at the time and the person's beliefs carry into the medium. Reality is very much perspective.

For The Last Jedi, I presume it's probably both. It's no secret that Hollywood want to normalize various social aspects typically associated with the political left, feminism, equality, so on, and likely I would suspect that character designs and plot lines were created with that in mind, even if at a subconscious level. That said, these decisions don't reflect a nefarious attempt to brainwash people or hijack the series, but rather reflect the social climate we live in today.

It's important to realize that all media carries with it the potential to carry the creators agenda, and learn to accept media for what it is.


For factual entities, such as news broadcasters, it can be dangerous and is definitely nefarious to skew stories in favor of which ever political belief pays the bills, but for fictional stories, like Star Wars, it's important to recognize it as a fictional piece of art.

Anyone who does #4 for something like Star Wars, independent of political affiliation, only displays their own lack of understanding.

For me, I will outright mock anyone who uses the term "SJW" in relation to fictional media.

There is a reason why trump got elected....

Oh man... came for the talk about Episode 9. Found thread number 5,720 about TLJ instead.

Bit disappointed.

I have strong reservations about episode 9, but having liked TFA I am hoping JJ can pull off a strong end. The trailer didn’t really sell me that he managed, but it didn’t set off alarm bells either.

Just now, R3dReVenge said:

There is a reason why trump got elected....

A number of them, to be sure.

2 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

I have strong reservations about episode 9, but having liked TFA I am hoping JJ can pull off a strong end. The trailer didn’t really sell me that he managed, but it didn’t set off alarm bells either.

Depends on how much you want to get spoiled they have leaks out all over that outline the entire movie. The trailer pretty much confirmed everything and I personally think the trailer give away 2/3 best moments from the movie. Now of course these leakers could have gotten early looks at leaked pics and the trailer, but at least you get a rough outline of what is going on.

It seems okay from the outline except one thing that I find really undercuts one of the best moments of the entire franchise(maybe it will work on film). There is one point that is really pissing people off bad, but Star Wars fans so yaaaaaaa. Also I finds it answers many of the issues created in 8 without just invalidating the movie.

2 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

Google Mary Sue bud.

I understand Mary Sue bud but how the **** you possibly linking the sentence "no one knows me" with her being one? That's more than just a stretch!!

1 minute ago, RyantheFett said:

Depends on how much you want to get spoiled they have leaks out all over that outline the entire movie. The trailer pretty much confirmed everything and I personally think the trailer give away 2/3 best moments from the movie. Now of course these leakers could have gotten early looks at leaked pics and the trailer, but at least you get a rough outline of what is going on.

It seems okay from the outline except one thing that I find really undercuts one of the best moments of the entire franchise(maybe it will work on film). There is one point that is really pissing people off bad, but Star Wars fans so yaaaaaaa. Also I finds it answers many of the issues created in 8 without just invalidating the movie.

I’ve come across some of them. Some sound absolutely awful. Some may not be terrible. My biggest concern with the certain Sith Lord whose voice is in the trailers is that it feels forced because they screwed up with their new trilogy baddy Snoke. And there’s been no build up or sense to help lead to this. That bothers me even more than the implications to our old films, as I can still argue the redemption arc.

At this point, i would rather avoid spoilers outside of what was publicly presented by Disney. I feel it’s what Yoda once (probably) said: “if look into the spoilers, only pain will you find.”

3 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

My biggest concern with the certain Sith Lord whose voice is in the trailers is that it feels forced because they screwed up with their new trilogy baddy Snoke. And there’s been no build up or sense to help lead to this.

Understandable, but I have been tainted by prequel memes and the more the Senate the better. I swear he got two lines he got to repeat from the other films and that will be enough to say to movie was amazing. At this point I figure the movie will not convert people one way or another. At best it gives defenders of Rey and 8 a lot to work with since this movie feels like a way to address those big issues.

As for build up as soon as they revealed Palp Daddy in the first trailer I figured they just stole the plot from Dark Empire and Snoke was either a clone, vessel, or puppet. In the old EU the good guys never really get an all out victory and the prophecy gets weird with non stop Sheeve clones, Vong, and evil force clouds. I found it strange in this canon that the good guys sort of get almost 30 years of peace when in the old EU their friends and family kept on getting hit by moons. So maybe that is why I am fine that they just repeat the same plot points like the Eu did as long they keep throwing me slop to keep me occupied?

Also slight spoiler: I sort of now look at these 9 movies as the Sheeve saga instead of the Skywalker saga. Especially after the Vader comic revealed that little Ani is the son of Papa Palp and the leaks from 9 are to be believed.

I have to say I am pretty excited by this, the potential here is great, I enjoyed Force Awakens but ended up detesting The Last Jedi as someone who is hugely invested in the original characters, established lore and irritated by the blatant shoehorning of agendas being woven in with little to no reason.

It’s probably risky to get hyped, but we all love Star Wars here and my hope is they explain a lot what I hope will end up being misdirection from TLJ and round out the characters nicely while providing some dramatic and epic events.

No more super lasers please and thank you

19 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

Understandable, but I have been tainted by prequel memes and the more the Senate the better. I swear he got two lines he got to repeat from the other films and that will be enough to say to movie was amazing. At this point I figure the movie will not convert people one way or another. At best it gives defenders of Rey and 8 a lot to work with since this movie feels like a way to address those big issues.

I mean, I sorta figured Dark Empire was coming back.

When we first saw those ISDs, what I wanted to find was Thrawn out with a remnant who would turn on the FO with the Resistance, but alas the ISDs appear to be aligned with Palp.

I’m trying to separate episode 8 from 9 and judge 9 solely on its own merits. I feel more should do the same (if you like 8 great, doesn’t mean 9 will deliver; if you didn’t like 8 then great, doesn’t mean JJ can’t resolve it for you). I’ve made my own opinions of 8 known in other threads actually about 8 and don’t feel the need to keep it going here.

6 minutes ago, Digimortal said:

No more super lasers please and thank you

1 hour ago, R3dReVenge said:

There is a reason why trump got elected....

There’s also a reason he’s getting impeached so...

Thread lock in....

3...

2...

1...

35 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:

There’s also a reason he’s getting impeached so...

Democrat!

47 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:

There’s also a reason he’s getting impeached so...

It will be an unsuccessful attempt. Can't wait to hear the libs when he gets re-elected AND I'm not even a Republican.....

33 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Thread lock in....

3...

2...

1...

To be fair pretty much every argument about Star Wars now involves the heavy undertones of politics nowadays which makes TRoS so interesting. The love of Palpatine is very strong in the community and he may end up doing one of the coolest things ever in Star Wars. Throw in some overacting (man is Ian McDiarmid so good) and some good lines and I will be very interested to see the fan base react.

5 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

It will be an unsuccessful attempt. Can't wait to hear the libs when he gets re-elected AND I'm not even a Republican.....

NVM lock this tread now, nuke it from orbit. Kill it like a youngling in the Jedi temple or a tusken village.

2 hours ago, ninclouse2000 said:

There’s also a reason he’s getting impeached so...

I’ll believe it when I see it. It’s all talk until it’s not. They threatened Dubya with impeachment too and that never happened so, empty words to rile up their voter base during an election season.

3 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

My biggest concern with the certain Sith Lord whose voice is in the trailers is that it feels forced because they screwed up with their new trilogy baddy Snoke.

But did they really?

I don't think he was meant to be the big baddy of the new trilogy. I mean I did after watching Episode 7, and quite frankly I didn't like it. I was afraid the Sequel trilogy would just be a retelling of the Original trilogy with Rey (Luke) training to be a Jedi with Luke (Yoda) to defeat Snoke (the emperor) and redeem Kylo (Darth Vader) in the end. Is it really what we wanted to see? That's not what I wanted to see.

I think Snoke was meant to die in The Last Jedi from the start. Killing him was part of Kylo's fall to the dark side. It was meant for Kylo to kill his master to take his place as the Supreme Leader. While it as been told many times that the entire trilogy was not written from the start, I read an interview from Adam Driver where he said that the character arcs were written, that he knew where his character was going, he just didn't knew how he was going there. It is quite possible that from the start it was written that Kylo would become Supreme Leader.

But, a lot of fans expected, with such conviction, that Snoke was the next Emperor (going with oh so many theories about who he really his) that I believe they got a little blinded by it, that they took their expectations as what should happen, instead of what could happen.

Bottom line is, Snoke was not the big baddy after all, he was only there so that Kylo would kill him to take his place as the Supreme Leader. That's good character development from Kylo, instead of just getting Vader 2.0. Remember in The empire Strike Back when Vader asked Luke to join him to kill the Emperor so that they could take his place and rule the Galaxy? Yeah well, Kylo did just that. I personally think it's one of the best twist in the Sequel trilogy and so fitting with the Star Wars lore of the dark side with the apprentice killing the master.

How did this become about Trump...oh I get it the Mary Sue talks

I'll count myself lucky that this is the first time Ive run into anyone using the term Mary Sue. Im totally fine with Rey being awesome. She was solid in 7 and less so in 8. I'll be honest, I'd be super disappointed if her staff skills only segue into a sith dream with a double sided lightsaber. I want the real deal, not just a dream/vision... Hopefully. I always thought Bastila from KOTOR was awesome!

I wasnt a fan of the casino, not because of the "rich and elite" it just didnt feel like it gelled with the rest of the movie. I thought the focus on the animals being mistreated was fine, then it dragged on, then they saved the animals for a whole 30 seconds and left the poor slave kids to rot. That felt a little off to me, but I could still look passed it if there were better character development of everyone else. I loved the Yoda scene where he burned the tree. I would have loved to see a scene with Ben sitting down with Luke and saying "I ran once and waited, and things turned around when I started to care again" kinda speech. I feel like that could have been a super powerful moment, but it was fine with Yoda.

I thought Kylo killing Snoke was lame at first, but then I kinda became excited to see a crazy dude be in charge of things. I hope his recklessness both hurts him but takes the rebs off guard this movie. Still thought the Snoke thing was weird after the build-up in 7.

I loved everything Finn's character said in 7. He totally won me over and his interaction with Rey I found hilarious and endearing. I was quite disappointed with the forced relationship with Finn and Rose which, to me, didn't feel natural at all and I was kinda shocked in the theater when it suddenly came to light at the very end.

I am REALLY annoyed with the hate the actor(actress? I can't remember what people prefer these days) that played Rose got. She did fine with what she was given, a lame character with mediocre script. I never once thought that was the actors' fault.

All-in-all I will repeat myself that I am super happy that people liked 8. I wish I could have, but I just felt like Rian Johnson kinda spit in the face of JJ Abrams by not following any of the major plot points or answering any of the major questions I had after watching 7. Idon't like it when poeple try to convince others that they should feel the same way they do "the movie sucked you should hate it!" or "how could you not like that part you should love it!" Guess what...if you liked it the first time that is awesome. Im freaking jealous of you, truly. If you hated it don't tell others it sucked. A lot of people that I have talked to liked a lot of the stuff I didnt. THAT IS OK, I am honestly glad they did. I still have hope. It is a little smaller after seeing the steeds gallop across the battle field but it is still there DANGIT! lol

I miss the days when not everything was viewed through a harsh political lens. Like the yahoos who said The Lego Movie was anti-business. A 2 hour commercial that I paid money to see. Yep, sheer Marxism that was, eyerollmoji.

Rey is not a Mary Sue. She has the same level of luck and background skills as any archetypal action hero. There are many leads in TV and films, whose lives are so charmed, that it unbalances the dramatic effect of the art. Rey's not one of them, especially for this genre.

Rey has flaws. Rey's abilities are explained. People can't or won't see these explanations and flaws however, so there's no reason to repeat them yet again.

My personal dispassionate ranking of SW movies is probably, from best to worst:

1. A New Hope
2. Rogue One (so don't say I only like old stuff)
3. The Empire Strikes Back
4. Willow (close enough, and better than the below)
5. Jurassic Park (What the heck why not)
6. Return of the Jedi
7. The Last Jedi
8. The Force Awakens
9. The Phantom Menace
10. Revenge of the Sith
11. Attack of the Clones

Anyone attempt to rate a movie that hasn't been released yet (episode 9) is foolishness. Based on its trailer I thought Rogue One would be pretty cheesy but it turned out to be amazing. I didn't go around saying it was "going to be a dumpster fire" or any of that. Who knows. This thing could be as good as anything. It's statistically likely to be bad, because most stuff is. But it could be good. And I don't really take personally the opinions of people with no expertise. By that I mean, people who can't contextualize these films because they've seen so few films, and who can't discuss them articulately because they don't have any sort of formal training or informally acquired skill, in the arts.

Nobody can ruin my childhood with a movie. Nothing in a theater changes my memories. Almost all my relatives are dead but I remember exactly who bought me, or played with, which old Star Wars toys, and when I pick up and handle those things it feels like those people are just in the next room. And it feels like we all still get along, even though the ones still living are largely not talking to one another. If you can have your childhood past ruined by a film in the present, that means these movies are being asked to substitute something or things that no film can be realistically asked to replace. It's like the people who burned their Warhammer Fantasy Battles armies online when Age of Sigmar came out. Lack of connection to more meaningful, deeper, things in life than fandoms is a surefire recipe for anger and sadness. This also comes from not developing broader taste as you grow up too. If anyone even cares, A Very Long Engagement (2004) or To Live (1994) are way more awesome than A New Hope but I wouldn't exactly have asked for action figures of them when I was in Kindergarten.