3 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

You guys don't really buy this Time Travel dreck do you? Okay, let me sort something straight here, alright?

There was no real Time Travel in Star Wars: Rebels. Anybody who watched it and got two iota to rub together can piece together that whatever had happened had already happened, and was going to, in that place between spaces. No, really. When Kanan died? Ezra had already made the decision not to save him. Because, if you were paying attention...

Things from different times, past present and future, could be heard going on. You know what this implies? I hope so.

In this space between worlds, time is nonlinear, but anything that WAS going to interact with it, already had or was going to in some fashion. You can change nothing in there, because what you will have done will have already BEEN done in that space. If you're still confused, the very fact that we can hear Kylo Ren speaking proves to us that every action that had led to Kylo Ren being at that exact point in time, had already happened as far as that space between worlds was concerned. Not only that, it was forever closed off to the likes of...

Well, everybody. Accessing it took some pretty specific criteria. We should note too, that while Palpatine had access to it, he could not enter it, because the gateways were not somewhere he could go. Those Jedi Temples were inaccessible to him. This is proven when the Inquisitors try to use the temple to corner Ezra, Ahsoka, and Kanan... But, visions of their old master attack and befuddle them. The Dark Side cannot win and has no influence in this place.

So, the gateway was always shut off. I mean, for goodness' sake, only Ezra was actually able to access it. Specifically, ONLY Ezra. Need further proof?

Ahsoka did not access it either. She was pulled in by Ezra, and set loose- put back in her time, just after the events of Vader's duel. You want to know something even crazier?

Vader most certainly informed Palpatine of this gate that she disappeared into. By the time Palpatine had figured it out, guess what! He runs into Ezra in that space between worlds!

Please tell me you're still following and have finally reached the proper conclusion and thus the correct answer, please!

TIME TRAVEL NEVER EXISTED IN STAR WARS. IT IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TYPE OF INTERACTION THAT IS SIMULTANEOUSLY NOT AN INTERACTION.

Time Travel does not exist in Star Wars! Gah! Nobody even traveled through time in that space! Ahsoka only moved from a different place, to another different but similar place! Same for Ezra!

I canNOT believe that the star wars fandom, priding itself on digging deep into stuff, STILL CAN'T SEEM TO GRASP THIS.

HHHHH.

But... Han Solo... Earth... Indiana Jones... Sasquatch... Chewie... Must... Understand...

But besides that... I think your spot on.

7 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

You guys don't really buy this Time Travel dreck do you? Okay, let me sort something straight here, alright?

There was no real Time Travel in Star Wars: Rebels. Anybody who watched it and got two iota to rub together can piece together that whatever had happened had already happened, and was going to, in that place between spaces. No, really. When Kanan died? Ezra had already made the decision not to save him. Because, if you were paying attention...

Things from different times, past present and future, could be heard going on. You know what this implies? I hope so.

In this space between worlds, time is nonlinear, but anything that WAS going to interact with it, already had or was going to in some fashion. You can change nothing in there, because what you will have done will have already BEEN done in that space. If you're still confused, the very fact that we can hear Kylo Ren speaking proves to us that every action that had led to Kylo Ren being at that exact point in time, had already happened as far as that space between worlds was concerned. Not only that, it was forever closed off to the likes of...

Well, everybody. Accessing it took some pretty specific criteria. We should note too, that while Palpatine had access to it, he could not enter it, because the gateways were not somewhere he could go. Those Jedi Temples were inaccessible to him. This is proven when the Inquisitors try to use the temple to corner Ezra, Ahsoka, and Kanan... But, visions of their old master attack and befuddle them. The Dark Side cannot win and has no influence in this place.

So, the gateway was always shut off. I mean, for goodness' sake, only Ezra was actually able to access it. Specifically, ONLY Ezra. Need further proof?

Ahsoka did not access it either. She was pulled in by Ezra, and set loose- put back in her time, just after the events of Vader's duel. You want to know something even crazier?

Vader most certainly informed Palpatine of this gate that she disappeared into. By the time Palpatine had figured it out, guess what! He runs into Ezra in that space between worlds!

Please tell me you're still following and have finally reached the proper conclusion and thus the correct answer, please!

TIME TRAVEL NEVER EXISTED IN STAR WARS. IT IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TYPE OF INTERACTION THAT IS SIMULTANEOUSLY NOT AN INTERACTION.

Time Travel does not exist in Star Wars! Gah! Nobody even traveled through time in that space! Ahsoka only moved from a different place, to another different but similar place! Same for Ezra!

I canNOT believe that the star wars fandom, priding itself on digging deep into stuff, STILL CAN'T SEEM TO GRASP THIS.

HHHHH.

Mostly, agree with you here. Ezra choose not to interfere with the past at Ahsoka's advice. Ahsoka then choose to go back to the time she stepped out of. So there is "wiggle" room there for a lazy hack like Abrahms.

Fundamentally the problem is JJ is going to do whatever the heck he wants and nobody is going to stop him. They make these movies by focus groups and marketing research as much as from any sort of artistic vision. Time Travel gives them so many outs for the mess that they've made. Time Travel gives them so many chances to throw everything ever from any Star Wars story on the screen. Time Travel gives them so many chances to let us throw any take on the film we'd like. Time Travel: prequels don't exist, Han isn't dead, Luke isn't dead, The Emperor isn't dead, et al.

And looking at this from the idea that JJ got to much Star Wars in his Star Trek it seems inevitable that JJ will get to much Star Trek i.e. Time Travel in his Star Wars.

I don't think it is Time Travel. That is just a red herring so they can spring a "gotcha" on the audience. I think it is cloning and various dark side stuff. In any case they'll gloss over whatever it is because space wizards and laser swords and they can do whatever they want. And don't rule out both ways -- clones and time travel. And don't forget those expectations which must be subverted!

Despite your solid logic (maybe even because of your solid logic) ruling Time Travel out would seem to be giving this director too much credit.

Ok, so I really didn't want any ideas going into this film, at the cinema, so I haven't read this thread. I did watch the trailer on my phone, thought it was awesome, took very little in and decided I should not watch it again, in order to stay pure.

But I have 2 young lads. So.i put I on the telly for them in the evening. We paused it several times, watched the other trailer, then watched the new one again, pausing more times.

Unfortunately, I had a vision and now I have foreseen all that will be in this movie. Dammit.

Spoiler alert then, because this obviously 100% what will happen.

All has proceeded according to Palpatines plan, ofc. Why would it not have? New Palp will play on the simplicity of the older films and be far more grand and evil and clever than we all thought.

C3-P0 > 0-0-0 Is largely incidental and will provide some emotional drama, betrayal, goodbyes, revelations, lives threatened etc R2-D2 may even declare that he never liked that stupid robot anyway. I'm imagining weeks in a sound studio trying to get the exact sequence of beeps and blorts to convey this in the subsequent convo he has with Chewie.

Anyway, the real plot purpose is to underpin and really nail down the true depth and breadth of the Palp plan. Whether Palp had Vader tinker with him on Bespin or just mail ordered little Ani 0-0-0 parts on Tatooine, was not clear. I prefer the latter.

They'll be some rise of the Resistance action ofc, but this is all just more blather, emotion and cool as **** imagery.

Kylo and Rey do some more psychic and fighty bonding. I reckon he falls for her. Maybe he even calls off the 1st Order or something lame and emo. Didnt foresee this, doesn't matter. There will be travel involved, and neat locations.

Upshot is that he guides her through Dark Side feely stuff and they rock up at Palps house.

Except Palp is a strangely corporeal force ghost, obviously. That Death Star II gig was a mighty ruse. He always intended for that sap Anakin to lob him into the core, which he himself designed with Dark Magics, so his final physical act could be bonding with the dark heart of this monument to bad vibes. What a bunch of suckers all those OT noobs were.

So yeah, been here all along, been busy. Chucked some shonky clones of himself around the wider galaxy to start building his Sith Empire. Snoke was a bit of **** one, truth be told, which is why you're such a disappointment Kylo. A pathetic creature, just like your Dad. But you served your purpose, just like all the other Clone apprentices, now you're no longer useful, just like them. Snaps glowy fingers, Kylo drops dead.

Rey- NO!

Yes, even now, my greater force is coming, my plans elsewhere have been fulfilled, unlike this crappy little 1st Order rubbish Snoke built.

Cut to massive Sith fleet facing up the tiny (not tiny) ragtag Resistance crowd. Possibly in the aftermath of heroically finishing off the FO.

Ah my child, but aren't you curious about your own origins?

Not entirely sure who she's been cloned from. I like the idea of Anakin, but perhaps there's other Skywalkers in there. Could be Palp in there too. Or only him.

Leia. Rey breathes and has a little flash of her presence. Mad cackle, no, I'm afraid you have none of her.... defiance. Snarling.

You are what you were created to be, my most powerful apprentice. You will join me, you were designed to. Destiny. Plan. Foreseen. Inevitable. Etc.

Either that or he intends to inhabit this clone body he made for himself.

Assaults her with Dark mentalism. Sees herself all dark side and cool. Nuh uh, old man. You don't know me.

But he does. Because he's got 6 or so more just like her in other regions, going through the exact same thing. See? This one for eg, vision of another Rey, with a moustache and cowboy hat or something, succumbing to the dark side and opening yellow eyes or some such.

Or this one, who is frail and not strong enough, currently being destroyed.

That's you that is.

So probably Leia is floating around in some fashion and awakens Reys defiance and pity.

No, says Rey, steely and looking Palp square in the eye. You don't know me, but I know you.

Does her psychic connect thingamajig with the other Reys.

Palp looks nervy. You have been consumed by fear she says. Maybe she reveals some stuff on Palps origins. Might be cool.

We will join you, as you have foreseen. We will bring order and peace together. But not as slaves to your fear!

Whoosh. Boom. Flashy force mentalism stuff happens. Things explode and collapse for no real reason. Perhaps some giant force beam guts the Sith fleet. Rey! Says Finn. Wait what? Says Poe. She did it, says Finn. Did what!? I don't know, but it was her, I felt it, she's saved us. She saved us all.

But Rey is gone. Nobody knows where. But then there's some peace and celebration and diversity and wholesomeness.

It's gonna be awesome. Unless it's not exactly like this, in which case it will be awful. Obviously.

Sorry if I've ruined it for anyone other than myself. But it's just a bigger ROTJ, which will be fine and an easy please for the larger sections of the SW fan base. Hurrah! Enjoy whatever nonsense it brings folks.

21 hours ago, Frimmel said:

Beat Wisconsin!!! O-H!

No way, who do you think you guys are? THE Fighting Illini? Jonathan Taylor could have a great game, but yeah I think you've probably got that one.

5 minutes ago, RebelProfundity said:

No way, who do you think you guys are? THE Fighting Illini? Jonathan Taylor could have a great game, but yeah I think you've probably got that one.

Well OSU has had a habit of dropping a game to a team they shouldn't and Wiscy is a good football team. Buckeyes will have to show up and play well. MSU and NW gashed us a couple times on the ground and Taylor can take that sort of run to the endzone. But both MSU and NW slowed Taylor down so OSU should be able to as well. If Fields can handle the Wiscy blitzes and such though we should be able to outscore them. Should be a good game.

Already written the film off TBH. Much more interested in finding out about The Mandalorian and the Cassian Andor series.

Sequel trilogy has been such a waste; hopefully Disney can move on into entirely new territory for future films

9 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

TIME TRAVEL NEVER EXISTED IN STAR WARS. IT IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TYPE OF INTERACTION THAT IS SIMULTANEOUSLY NOT AN INTERACTION.

I agree with you, but I'm still not sure when it enters the ability queue...

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Already written the film off TBH. Much more interested in finding out about The Mandalorian and the Cassian Andor series.

Sequel trilogy has been such a waste; hopefully Disney can move on into entirely new territory for future films

The issue with the sequel trilogy, as far as I can make out, is that it isn't really a trilogy. Sure, there are 3 films, and they follow along chronologically, but that's all. There's almost no actual crossover between films besides the characters, no over-arching story, no interesting call-backs beyond playing off nostalgia etc. It would seem they're only making it a trilogy because they've set a precedent for trilogies, not because they ever had a 3-part story to tell. Of course, that's "The George Lucas Way", but I don't think that's much of an excuse for not planning out such a massive franchise.

9 minutes ago, GhostOfAFlea said:

The issue with the sequel trilogy, as far as I can make out, is that it isn't really a trilogy. Sure, there are 3 films, and they follow along chronologically, but that's all. There's almost no actual crossover between films besides the characters, no over-arching story, no interesting call-backs beyond playing off nostalgia etc. It would seem they're only making it a trilogy because they've set a precedent for trilogies, not because they ever had a 3-part story to tell. Of course, that's "The George Lucas Way", but I don't think that's much of an excuse for not planning out such a massive franchise.

Yeah, that's about right. It'll probably go down as the biggest wasted opportunity in cinematic history.

Fans had been waiting since Return of the Jedi to see Like, Leia, Han, Cheque etc back on the big screen. Disney blew it, that chance has gone forever now. Disasterously managed from day one.

10 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

You make good points, except that Dave Filoni states that:

Quote

I don’t really think of it as time travel. It’s not really a thing where you go through one door and out another in a different time. The world between worlds is really about knowledge and gaining knowledge. As the Dume wolf says, what’s in there is knowledge and destruction. You can gain knowledge of the future or futures that may happen, and you can see things that happened in the past. You can at times choose to alter them, but it’s perilous to do so and when you alter something you don’t know if that’s not the way it always happened. So destruction is the other half of what’s in there. When you go through these doorways, you’re in peril of destruction because you’re missing all sorts of things that would have happened or things would’ve happened otherwise, you know, so it’s a dangerous game but it’s not something we’re here going in and out of different doors. It’s an extension of the Jedi’s ability to perceive the future and the past, as described in Empire Strikes Back.

So, Filoni didn't want the World between Worlds to be "Time Travel" with people walking in one portal and jumping through to another point in time. That opens up all sorts of hijinks and story problems that you want to avoid. Ahsoka and Ezra did however step outside their own time frame.

Mostly it was supposed to be an extension of the Force's precognition and postcognition abilities (he states the Jedi's, but Sidious was precognative as well). From within the WbW you could see and hear the past and future. You could also affect it.

Now, while I get where you are coming from stressing that Ezra grabbing Ahsoka was not him changing the past because he had "always" grabbed her so showing him doing it wasn't really changing anything, Filoni does open up using the WbW to make alterations, but its perilous to do so. As well, the premise that you can't use the WbW to alter the past then states that the entire episode was a false dilemma, as Ezra's choice to not save Kanan was meaningless as he would not have been able to. I highly doubt Filoni's moral of the story was "Ezra never really had a choice here" instead of "Ezra made the right choice in accepting the past and moving on". Ezra had to have had the ability to make a change from the WbW for there to be any sort of drama or dilemma.

As well, even if we hang onto the idea that you cannot change the past, there is nothing saying that Rey and/or Kylo could not go back and meet with Vader the night on Endor, tell him that he was going to die saving his son's life from the Emperor, and asking him for insight against Palpatine. The events of RotJ would have still played out the way that they would have, but then ST folks could have returned to their time with more information about Palp, or some sort of similar information gathering action which is well within the scope of the WbW without traveling between time.

...and we also saw what JJ did with Time Travel with Star Trek. He's not above pulling that lever so he can re-write years of history. You may want to get some pitchforks and torches ahead of time to avoid the rush.

I don't think its a leading theory, but I do think there is a non-zero chance that JJ could go there.

20 hours ago, LTuser said:

Especially when we see them in that base saying "NO one's responding to our emergency message"...

Where did they all come from?

Apparently this film is going to be taking place a year after TLJ and so they've had a year to collect and assemble a fleet from people across the galaxy.

4 hours ago, Frimmel said:

Mostly, agree with you here. Ezra choose not to interfere with the past at Ahsoka's advice. Ahsoka then choose to go back to the time she stepped out of. So there is "wiggle" room there for a lazy hack like Abrahms.

Fundamentally the problem is JJ is going to do whatever the heck he wants and nobody is going to stop him. They make these movies by focus groups and marketing research as much as from any sort of artistic vision. Time Travel gives them so many outs for the mess that they've made. Time Travel gives them so many chances to throw everything ever from any Star Wars story on the screen. Time Travel gives them so many chances to let us throw any take on the film we'd like. Time Travel: prequels don't exist, Han isn't dead, Luke isn't dead, The Emperor isn't dead, et al.

And looking at this from the idea that JJ got to much Star Wars in his Star Trek it seems inevitable that JJ will get to much Star Trek i.e. Time Travel in his Star Wars.

I don't think it is Time Travel. That is just a red herring so they can spring a "gotcha" on the audience. I think it is cloning and various dark side stuff. In any case they'll gloss over whatever it is because space wizards and laser swords and they can do whatever they want. And don't rule out both ways -- clones and time travel. And don't forget those expectations which must be subverted!

Despite your solid logic (maybe even because of your solid logic) ruling Time Travel out would seem to be giving this director too much credit.

I can't say I agree. They won't use and do not need time travel. It's one of the unspoken rules of Star Wars, that Time Travel just doesn't exist. I'm just not of the mindset that J.J. Abrams just carelessly does what he wants. Were that the case, the Kelvin timeline wouldn't have been a cleverly avoidable timeline that does nothing to the Prime timeline but simply exist.

(RIP Kelvin timeline, I did love you so. Like many others, it's what got me into Trek in the first place.)

8 hours ago, Jaden Corr said:

But... Han Solo... Earth... Indiana Jones... Sasquatch... Chewie... Must... Understand...

But besides that... I think your spot on.

Thank you. It's nice to see folks say so. I was honestly expecting a vitriolic reaction.

2 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Already written the film off TBH. Much more interested in finding out about The Mandalorian and the Cassian Andor series.

Sequel trilogy has been such a waste; hopefully Disney can move on into entirely new territory for future films

I am wondering... Why are you here?

No really, hear me out Gecko. If you dislike the sequel trilogy and have written off the trilogy, why are you in an entire thread dedicated to said trilogy's climax? If you're going to be like this... Then like, get out. You're dragging everybody else down when you act this way. Go partake in a dozen other threads.

43 minutes ago, kris40k said:

You make good points, except that Dave Filoni states that:

So, Filoni didn't want the World between Worlds to be "Time Travel" with people walking in one portal and jumping through to another point in time. That opens up all sorts of hijinks and story problems that you want to avoid. Ahsoka and Ezra did however step outside their own time frame.

Mostly it was supposed to be an extension of the Force's precognition and postcognition abilities (he states the Jedi's, but Sidious was precognative as well). From within the WbW you could see and hear the past and future. You could also affect it.

Now, while I get where you are coming from stressing that Ezra grabbing Ahsoka was not him changing the past because he had "always" grabbed her so showing him doing it wasn't really changing anything, Filoni does open up using the WbW to make alterations, but its perilous to do so. As well, the premise that you can't use the WbW to alter the past then states that the entire episode was a false dilemma, as Ezra's choice to not save Kanan was meaningless as he would not have been able to. I highly doubt Filoni's moral of the story was "Ezra never really had a choice here" instead of "Ezra made the right choice in accepting the past and moving on". Ezra had to have had the ability to make a change from the WbW for there to be any sort of drama or dilemma.

As well, even if we hang onto the idea that you cannot change the past, there is nothing saying that Rey and/or Kylo could not go back and meet with Vader the night on Endor, tell him that he was going to die saving his son's life from the Emperor, and asking him for insight against Palpatine. The events of RotJ would have still played out the way that they would have, but then ST folks could have returned to their time with more information about Palp, or some sort of similar information gathering action which is well within the scope of the WbW without traveling between time.

...and we also saw what JJ did with Time Travel with Star Trek. He's not above pulling that lever so he can re-write years of history. You may want to get some pitchforks and torches ahead of time to avoid the rush.

I don't think its a leading theory, but I do think there is a non-zero chance that JJ could go there.

Let's address this. I didn't mean to say Ezra had no agency and no choices to make. But he had already made those choices in the future and past, existing simultaneously in the present. Yes, maybe they could indeed go back in time to say something to somebody. But nobody who entered the World Between Worlds re-entered it after exiting, so that's fairly unlikely.

Remember again, J.J. Abrams did nothing with time travel. Another huge misconception that continues to be incorrect about the prime and kelvin timeline. Let's go over this.

Hobus blows the **** up, Spock fails to save it, Narada goes into a dimensional wormhole, ends up encountering The U.S.S. Kelvin (as it was, effectively, in the old timeline) but destroys it. This alters history but instead of deleting history as we knew it, creates a different branch- a different, new universe.

The Narada and Nero wait almost 20 years (after having some unspoken issues with local Klingon forces), all the while this massive threat encourages Starfleet to be a slight bit more warlike and salvage tech that allows them significant technological advancement.

Spock's ship leaves the wormhole in his perception instantly, in Nero's, after almost 20 years. Star Trek 2009's main events begin. During this time Spock does not have the ability to get back and is presumed dead in the Prime timeline. He dies in the Kelvin timeline. The Prime timeline continues on as though things were just fine. This is evidenced by the new Picard series taking place many years- almost 20 (real running theme here huh?) after Nemesis.

SO.

J,J, Never played with Time Travel anyway. It was transdimensional. Nothing in the Prime Timeline was ever changed.

We will not be traveling through time in Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker.

OL @Captain Lackwitkwit, just three things:

1. Don't presume to tell me or anyone else what they should or should not do with their time.

2. I've just as much right to post my opinion on this or any other forum as you do.

3. If someone posting their opinion on a piece of cinematography aggravates you so much - to the point of "bringing you down" - then maybe you should stop taking them so personally?

I am hoping that we get the official answer to who is telling the story of “a long time ago....”

maybe 3Po’s memory or R2?

too many long posts to re-quote, I liked them above, but I agree with no time travel.

1) Filoni say so.
2) Time travel in every movie or show ever has screwed it up.

3) has not been established in any Star Wars. Legends or Canon.

9 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

OL @Captain Lackwitkwit, just three things:

1. Don't presume to tell me or anyone else what they should or should not do with their time.

2. I've just as much right to post my opinion on this or any other forum as you do.

3. If someone posting their opinion on a piece of cinematography aggravates you so much - to the point of "bringing you down" - then maybe you should stop taking them so personally?

You have the right to post your opinion, but I have the right to respond. You know how much it costs you to not be this way? Nothing. It's free.

Stop trying to taint everybody else's experience with your negativity about the sequel trilogy. Nobody wants it. I like you, but don't be that way. None of us gain anything from it at all.

10 minutes ago, Ccwebb said:

I am hoping that we get the official answer to who is telling the story of “a long time ago....”

maybe 3Po’s memory or R2?

too many long posts to re-quote, I liked them above, but I agree with no time travel.

1) Filoni say so.
2) Time travel is every movie or show ever has screwed it up.

3) has not been established in any Star Wars. Legends or Canon.

Bingo.

Can we at least agree to stop saying 'jumped the shark' and instead say 'rode space ponies'?

It was cool seeing all the people (around lando) chilling under a CR90 on the ground.

2 hours ago, Ccwebb said:

I am hoping that we get the official answer to who is telling the story of “a long time ago....”

maybe 3Po’s memory or R2?

George Lucas had said something a long time ago about R2 being the keeper of the whills. That would jive with several references to 3PO's memory wipes and R2's non-memory wipes. Also why in the story 3PO is always made out to be an bumbling idiot of almost unbelievable proportions and how many times R2-D2 saves the day.

I recommend watching through at least the OT with the idea that R2-D2 is telling this story.

11 minutes ago, Whalers on the moon said:

George Lucas had said something a long time ago about R2 being the keeper of the whills. That would jive with several references to 3PO's memory wipes and R2's non-memory wipes. Also why in the story 3PO is always made out to be an bumbling idiot of almost unbelievable proportions and how many times R2-D2 saves the day.

I recommend watching through at least the OT with the idea that R2-D2 is telling this story.

Oh I agree. I saw that special where Lucas made that statement.

I mentioned 3Po, in jest, with the idea of a desk top computer in mind (non Apple computer). Deleted items aren’t really deleted! Plus, 3Po has been established as a story teller. (Ewoks...)

4 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Remember again, J.J. Abrams did nothing with time travel. Another huge misconception that continues to be incorrect about the prime and kelvin timeline. Let's go over this.

<snippage>

SO.

J,J, Never played with Time Travel anyway. It was transdimensional. Nothing in the Prime Timeline was ever changed.

We will not be traveling through time in Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker.

Ehhh.... going to have to agree to disagree here, but I understand your point.

Going back and creating a 2nd timeline is close enough for soft sci-fi and sci-fantasy which Star Wars is, and feels like you are splitting hairs here arguing that its not time travel, but transdimensional.

This aint Primer.

2 hours ago, kris40k said:

Ehhh.... going to have to agree to disagree here, but I understand your point.

Going back and creating a 2nd timeline is close enough for soft sci-fi and sci-fantasy which Star Wars is, and feels like you are splitting hairs here arguing that its not time travel, but transdimensional.

This aint Primer.

I don't mean to be obstinate when I say this, but it's not up for debate though. It's literally a different timeline. It always was one. I mean shoot, it's in the plot. Prime didn't stop existing because Nero changed the "past". That's not even how time travel would technically work.

There's a theory that if you exit your time and enter another, you aren't changing the future you were in, you simply cease to exist in it. When you cross that treshold, you're not coming back- because it would then be impossible to replicate the events that led up to your leaving- especially if you left at a significant interval. Instead you enter a parallel timeline that splits off and, depending on the gravity of your alteration, can quite literally change everything.

The Narada introduced borg technology almost 200 years before it was supposed to exist where it did, and its attack on The Kelvin militarized The Federation much faster.

Still.

Kelvin Timeline isn't a fan name for the films. That's absolutely canon. It's no different in concept than something like the mirror universe. Something made that happen, something made this happen.

2 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I don't mean to be obstinate when I say this, but it's not up for debate though. It's literally a different timeline. It always was one. I mean shoot, it's in the plot.

I'm not debating whether or not that they split off another time line. That is obvious.

I'm saying that arguing that creating another time line due to traveling back in time is not time travel but transdimensional travel is splitting hair pedantry when we're discussing soft sci-fi.

Its time travel.

5 minutes ago, kris40k said:

I'm not debating whether or not that they split off another time line. That is obvious.

I'm saying that arguing that creating another time line due to traveling back in time is not time travel but transdimensional travel is splitting hair pedantry when we're discussing soft sci-fi.

Its time travel.

...But it's not! Time Travel implies that you went back in time, but that's not what happened! Yesterday's Enterprise? There's a time travel episode. Star Trek 4? There's Time Travel. That's time travel on a linear path!

But that's not what happened in the Kelvin Timeline..! It's not Time Travel. The event created another, new timeline. If it was time travel, then it would have changed the Star Trek timeline as we know it.

But it didn't do that. It's parallel. Not a reboot, rewrite, treading of fandom, nothing like that.

It's unintrusive. As unintrusive as it can get. ****. Need proof? Look at Discovery and its Enterprise. Literally cannot be the same one as JJ's. It's a different timeline.

3 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

...But it's not! Time Travel implies that you went back in time, but that's not what happened! Yesterday's Enterprise? There's a time travel episode. Star Trek 4? There's Time Travel. That's time travel on a linear path!

But that's not what happened in the Kelvin Timeline..! It's not Time Travel. The event created another, new timeline. If it was time travel, then it would have changed the Star Trek timeline as we know it.

But it didn't do that. It's parallel. Not a reboot, rewrite, treading of fandom, nothing like that.

It's unintrusive. As unintrusive as it can get. ****. Need proof? Look at Discovery and its Enterprise. Literally cannot be the same one as JJ's. It's a different timeline.

Ehhh.... going to have to agree to disagree here, but I understand your point.

Going back and creating a 2nd timeline is close enough for soft sci-fi and sci-fantasy which Star Wars is, and feels like you are splitting hairs here arguing that its not time travel, but transdimensional.

This aint Primer.

There's some time travel for ya...

23 hours ago, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

🤣

Satire has never been truer.

11 hours ago, RebelRogue said:

I agree with you, but I'm still not sure when it enters the ability queue...

It was already in the ability queue and you can’t change that