I’d say, I agree with everything you mention save for two points.

1. Each faction is from an era not just the event for which it is named. We say “Clone Wars” or “Galactic Civil War” because it is a convenient encapsulation of the given eras, but in truth the Clone Wars does have everything to do with the events/movies that come before. Without Anakin being introduced to Qui-Gon, would Obiwan become Obi’s Padawan? As far as FFG goes, I’m sure they’re selecting from what seems cool to them and what they think will sell and I don’t think we can blame them. I truly wouldn’t mind having Qui-Gon (even though he was dead and never saw a clone... that we know) and I wouldn’t mind having Jarjar, though he has to have the distract ability (permanently on) and not cost much and definitely no lightsabers or force powers. My point is, it’s ok to include things that came slightly before or after as they’re still a part of that era. Look at Sabine. The Star Wars Rebels show actually starts before the rebellion was a thing. Should Sabine be included? She stayed on Lothal during most of the rebellion to protect Lothal from the Empire’s return (they didn’t). Does this mean she shouldn’t be included? Since Star Wars is decided into eras with many years gap in between, I think we can expect more of this.

Also isn’t this all moot anyway when we have droids fighting rebels and republic & Jedi fighting imperials?

2. This one is just my personal wish, so take it as such, but I really want an AT-TE and I think it’s easily possible. I will admit, I think the AT-AT is a non-starter for Legion (sorry to those who really wanted it). The AT-TE and AT-AT are about the same length, but the AT-TE is half the height of the AT-AT (according to wiki pages, which I think may be wrong - I’ll explain why - see video link). The AT-ST already towers over any battlefield and makes it hard to get full cover for a full squad even with lots of LoS blocking terrain, but the AT-AT is twice the height of the AT-ST (wiki pages again), so just think of how even a scaled down AT-AT would be on a Legion board. Keep in mind T-47’s flew between AT-ATs’ legs without problems (from what I’ve heard the T-47 may be a bit small for Legion’s scale, but that’s only rumour I’ve heard). Now look in contrast to the AT-TE. Sure, it’s bulky, but it doesn’t tower over everything. If you look at the episode of Star Wars Rebels (start at time index 1:40) where an AT-TE and an AT-AT fight (almost wrestling) you can see a huge scale difference, though if I’m completely honest I wonder if the creators played around with scale to fit the scene like the did with lightsaber lengths. Still I think the AT-TE would be awesome and like any fan-girl I really want to see it in Legion.

Here’s a good verses video which I think more accurately shows the scale difference.

@JediPartisan Sabine, unlike Qui-Gon, was actually alive and fought with the Rebellion in canon while Qui-Gon never fought alongside the Clones. Just because she also fought the Empire before the formal establishment of the Rebel Alliance and that is what we are shown, doesn't make it a comparable situation in my opinion.

8 hours ago, Jedirev said:

No shortage of imagination at all! My point is that it takes more or less the same imagination to put Maul in an army with CIS.

It's not a matter of just "imagination," it's a matter of actively going against canon. Maul fought against the CIS and Republic in canon, never alongside. As I said before, he just happened to be fighting Jedi on a planet the Trade Federation was blockading as part of a mission assigned to him by Palpatine.

35 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@JediPartisan Sabine, unlike Qui-Gon, was actually alive and fought with the Rebellion in canon while Qui-Gon never fought alongside the Clones. Just because she also fought the Empire before the formal establishment of the Rebel Alliance and that is what we are shown, doesn't make it a comparable situation in my opinion.

It's not a matter of just "imagination," it's a matter of actively going against canon. Maul fought against the CIS and Republic in canon, never alongside. As I said before, he just happened to be fighting Jedi on a planet the Trade Federation was blockading as part of a mission assigned to him by Palpatine.

We're just trying to prepare you for your inevitable disappointment.

1 minute ago, arnoldrew said:

We're just trying to prepare you for your inevitable disappointment.

How do you know you won't be "disappointed?"

Personally, I don't care what they release, I'll vote with my wallet for what models I want and don't want. I'm pointing out that it hinges on Disney approving a patently non-canon inclusion. Again, different situation in my opinion from X-Wing, where Maul is one of a small handful (I think only 3?) canon pilots of that ship.

17 hours ago, TheHoosh said:

Darth Maul is going to be in the game according to the devs and so should Qui-Gon, the only logic I need is that the clone wars is really covering the prequel trilogies not the point at which the "clone wars" themselves started. Heck he has a more valid reason to be in there along with Darth Maul than Rex or anything from the cartoons just based on name recognition selling models.

I'm sorry, but your logic doesn't make sense to me. Maul was alive, well, half of him was, during the Clone Wars, and while I don't think the CIS would be the faction for him, he at least took part in it. Qui-Gon was not alive, nor did he take part in it at all. One does not equal the other. And to people buying this game, Rex probably has as high of a name recognition value as Qui-Gon.

14 hours ago, Uetur said:

I consider Episode 1 to be so tied to the clone wars that including any characters from Episode 1 makes a lot of sense to me. Similar to a lot of wars where you have an initial battle that is really a skirmish, everyone politically says "It's ON!!!" and then later on you have the true formation of full armies, war efforts etc. Heck the entire event was orchestrated by the man who seized power in that movie.

It's a preceeding conflict, but the time gap (a full decade) kinda makes it hard to include the Battle of Naboo as part of the Clone Wars, or at least the Clone War proper. I expect we'll see a lot of Episode I stuff eventually (I'm going to talk about some of it in the next article) but I don't think its necessarily a shoe in.

8 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

I’d say, I agree with everything you mention save for two points.

1. Each faction is from an era not just the event for which it is named. We say “Clone Wars” or “Galactic Civil War” because it is a convenient encapsulation of the given eras, but in truth the Clone Wars does have everything to do with the events/movies that come before. Without Anakin being introduced to Qui-Gon, would Obiwan become Obi’s Padawan? As far as FFG goes, I’m sure they’re selecting from what seems cool to them and what they think will sell and I don’t think we can blame them. I truly wouldn’t mind having Qui-Gon (even though he was dead and never saw a clone... that we know) and I wouldn’t mind having Jarjar, though he has to have the distract ability (permanently on) and not cost much and definitely no lightsabers or force powers. My point is, it’s ok to include things that came slightly before or after as they’re still a part of that era. Look at Sabine. The Star Wars Rebels show actually starts before the rebellion was a thing. Should Sabine be included? She stayed on Lothal during most of the rebellion to protect Lothal from the Empire’s return (they didn’t). Does this mean she shouldn’t be included? Since Star Wars is decided into eras with many years gap in between, I think we can expect more of this.

Also isn’t this all moot anyway when we have droids fighting rebels and republic & Jedi fighting imperials?

2. This one is just my personal wish, so take it as such, but I really want an AT-TE and I think it’s easily possible. I will admit, I think the AT-AT is a non-starter for Legion (sorry to those who really wanted it). The AT-TE and AT-AT are about the same length, but the AT-TE is half the height of the AT-AT (according to wiki pages, which I think may be wrong - I’ll explain why - see video link). The AT-ST already towers over any battlefield and makes it hard to get full cover for a full squad even with lots of LoS blocking terrain, but the AT-AT is twice the height of the AT-ST (wiki pages again), so just think of how even a scaled down AT-AT would be on a Legion board. Keep in mind T-47’s flew between AT-ATs’ legs without problems (from what I’ve heard the T-47 may be a bit small for Legion’s scale, but that’s only rumour I’ve heard). Now look in contrast to the AT-TE. Sure, it’s bulky, but it doesn’t tower over everything. If you look at the episode of Star Wars Rebels (start at time index 1:40) where an AT-TE and an AT-AT fight (almost wrestling) you can see a huge scale difference, though if I’m completely honest I wonder if the creators played around with scale to fit the scene like the did with lightsaber lengths. Still I think the AT-TE would be awesome and like any fan-girl I really want to see it in Legion.

Here’s a good verses video which I think more accurately shows the scale difference.

1. First of all, I want Jar Jar. He was alive and an active participant in the Clone Wars on several occasions. He makes sense. Qui-Gon on the other hand goes back to "why?" He was dead for a decade by the time of the Clone Wars, had never heard of the Grand Army of the Republic, and for all we know, may have joined Dooku's separatists. More importantly, there are dozens of Jedi that did fight that are almost as recognizable that should be introduced first, be they council members like Mace, Kit Fisto, or Ki-Adi-Mundi, or background Jedi like Aayla Secura, Quinlin Vos, or Luminara. As I said in the article, Qui-Gon could come into the game eventually (because of the disrespect for time that you mention) but he most certainly shouldn't be a priority.

2. For me, the height of the mini is far less problematic than the square footage it takes up. For a game where troopers are taking up maybe an inch square of space, having a single unit that takes up 1-2 feet square will be the problem. Almost no amount of terrain would work with it, and there is not way it could fit into any deployment zone besides long march. I'd love the AT-TE, but its simply too dang big to be practical. (Oh, FYI, the AT-ATs in the Rebels episode are actually oversized by a fair margin from the ones we see in ESB. The AT-TE is still plenty bulky enough to be problematic.)

And thanks for the replies everyone! I hope you enjoyed the article, and will read the next one when it comes out tomorrow! If you can, check us out on Facebook! Shameless plug, but we're real close to hitting our first milestone of having 100 likes, and it would be awesome to have that correspond with the Clone Wars release!

Thanks again!

1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

How do you know you won't be "disappointed?"

Personally, I don't care what they release, I'll vote with my wallet for what models I want and don't want. I'm pointing out that it hinges on Disney approving a patently non-canon inclusion. Again, different situation in my opinion from X-Wing, where Maul is one of a small handful (I think only 3?) canon pilots of that ship.

Darth Maul is canon, which is what matters. They've consistently shown they aren't exactly slaves to the lore. People want Darth Maul, and they probably aren;t going to make a niche faction just so they can include him, especially given that you cal already have Operative Luke and Jyn versus Obi-wan leading a clone army.

59 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

I'm sorry, but your logic doesn't make sense to me. Maul was alive, well, half of him was, during the Clone Wars, and while I don't think the CIS would be the faction for him, he at least took part in it. Qui-Gon was not alive, nor did he take part in it at all. One does not equal the other. And to people buying this game, Rex probably has as high of a name recognition value as Qui-Gon.

It's a preceeding conflict, but the time gap (a full decade) kinda makes it hard to include the Battle of Naboo as part of the Clone Wars, or at least the Clone War proper. I expect we'll see a lot of Episode I stuff eventually (I'm going to talk about some of it in the next article) but I don't think its necessarily a shoe in.

1. First of all, I want Jar Jar. He was alive and an active participant in the Clone Wars on several occasions. He makes sense. Qui-Gon on the other hand goes back to "why?" He was dead for a decade by the time of the Clone Wars, had never heard of the Grand Army of the Republic, and for all we know, may have joined Dooku's separatists. More importantly, there are dozens of Jedi that did fight that are almost as recognizable that should be introduced first, be they council members like Mace, Kit Fisto, or Ki-Adi-Mundi, or background Jedi like Aayla Secura, Quinlin Vos, or Luminara. As I said in the article, Qui-Gon could come into the game eventually (because of the disrespect for time that you mention) but he most certainly shouldn't be a priority.

2. For me, the height of the mini is far less problematic than the square footage it takes up. For a game where troopers are taking up maybe an inch square of space, having a single unit that takes up 1-2 feet square will be the problem. Almost no amount of terrain would work with it, and there is not way it could fit into any deployment zone besides long march. I'd love the AT-TE, but its simply too dang big to be practical. (Oh, FYI, the AT-ATs in the Rebels episode are actually oversized by a fair margin from the ones we see in ESB. The AT-TE is still plenty bulky enough to be problematic.)

And thanks for the replies everyone! I hope you enjoyed the article, and will read the next one when it comes out tomorrow! If you can, check us out on Facebook! Shameless plug, but we're real close to hitting our first milestone of having 100 likes, and it would be awesome to have that correspond with the Clone Wars release!

Thanks again!

I can understand your argument against the AT-TE, but it doesn’t make me want it less. 😅

But as for Qui-Gon, I was trying to say that the Clone Wars is an era that also includes things that happened a few years prior. We never see Sifo-Dyas (so I don’t expect him in Legion), but without him there would be no clone army. We do see Qui-Gon just prior to the Clone Wars and he is important to the story that leads into the Clone Wars itself. Yes, there are more prominent Jedi that were front and center in the CW, and I would expect them to come well before Qui-Gon, but I would expect them to come out with Qui-Gon at some point. My point is that the prequels were a trilogy that had a beginning, middle and an end. The CW were encompassed in only two of those movies, but it doesn’t make the other one movie pointless. Without the first movie the CW would make less sense and Qui-Gon is a major player in that movie whether he fought with clones or not. Like it or not, the Phantom Menace is part of that trilogy and era, so FFG will no doubt draw from that source.

As for Jedi squads, I agree that would be bad, but I hope the first generic Commander is a Jedi or even just a Padawan. Maybe just one force slot, a command and equipment slots and a lightsaber that does 3black and 2white, Pierce 1, Impact 1, maybe 60points?

2 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@JediPartisan Sabine, unlike Qui-Gon, was actually alive and fought with the Rebellion in canon while Qui-Gon never fought alongside the Clones. Just because she also fought the Empire before the formal establishment of the Rebel Alliance and that is what we are shown, doesn't make it a comparable situation in my opinion.

It’s actually exactly the same. Sabine was part of “a” rebellion. It’s like if the Nazis had won the Second World War and Norway started a small rebellion then after freeing one city, just stopped. Then North America started a rebellion that was joined by Europe and Asia and won. Would you say the one city from Norway was part of the rebellion? Of course not, but maybe Norway did something that inspired the others or used a strategy that worked. Norway would be relevant to the rebellion story, but not really part of it. Qui-Gon is a relevant part of the story that leads into the CW. Wow this explanation got weird.😳

1 hour ago, arnoldrew said:

Darth Maul is canon, which is what matters. They've consistently shown they aren't exactly slaves to the lore. People want Darth Maul, and they probably aren;t going to make a niche faction just so they can include him, especially given that you cal already have Operative Luke and Jyn versus Obi-wan leading a clone army.

I'm not talking about making a "niche" faction just for Maul, I'm talking about including him in a "Criminal" faction along with Jabba, Hondo, etc, which, iIrc, FFG designers have indicated is possible once CW is fleshed out. As well, the design space he would fill for CIS can be occupied by Savage Opress or Asajj Ventress (force using Operative wielding lightsaber(s), in the former case a saberstaff), both of whom are canon characters in the CIS faction during the Clone Wars, and carry name recognition among fans of the cartoon.

The "canonicity" of battles is a separate matter from canon within a faction, otherwise Disney could have forced FFG to prevent the mirror match/non-canon matches in tournaments (much like the LoTR miniature game tournaments I've seen where everyone has to bring a "good" and "evil" army). This is a long standing tradition in wargames, of armies that are either canon or historically accurate-ish internally (composition of forces, named characters etc.) playing against another "accurate" force when neither of them would have even done battle (WW2 era Finns fighting anyone other than the Soviets (and Germans for very late war), Early War Polish against Late War armies, the original 6 US Navy frigates fighting the HMS Victory and supporting fleet). Besides, the concept of both sides being "balanced" is completely non-canonical/historically accurate, battle composition doesn't enter into "canon" whereas characters in a force might.

36 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

It’s actually exactly the same. Sabine was part of “a” rebellion. It’s like if the Nazis had won the Second World War and Norway started a small rebellion then after freeing one city, just stopped. Then North America started a rebellion that was joined by Europe and Asia and won. Would you say the one city from Norway was part of the rebellion? Of course not, but maybe Norway did something that inspired the others or used a strategy that worked. Norway would be relevant to the rebellion story, but not really part of it. Qui-Gon is a relevant part of the story that leads into the CW. Wow this explanation got weird.😳

Sabine works and fights as part of the Rebel Alliance, directly alongside such characters Leia and Mon Mothma during the course of the show. The whole plot of Rebels is the growth and formation of the Rebel Alliance as we know it in the original trilogy, so arguably Sabine is one of the early members. Additionally, your analogy isn't perfect because the crew of the Ghost was part of the greater Rebellion the entire time (revealed in "Fire Across the Galaxy"). So it's more akin to a cell operating independently in Oslo while only the cell leader contacts the leader of the resistance.

While attempting not to add any fuel to the fire I'd just like to say that I don't think FFG really cares about realistic timelines all that much. Aside from them never mentioning that they do, or giving us any indication that they do: This isn't supposed to be a game that tells some sort of set narrative in the Star Wars universe. I'd love a game like that (I'm working on a guide for campaign rules I'm making.. It'll be complete and surface on here hopefully before next August), but I don't think FFG is concerning themselves with it. Jyn Erso never fought alongside Han Solo, but she can in Legion even though she was dead before Han even cared about the rebellion.

Even though I just made a case for Qui-Gon, I'm still guessing we'll see Maul, but not Qui-Gon. Not necessarily because Qui-Gon is dead during the main conflict of CW, but because there is such an abundance of Jedi that I believe should be added first. We're rather limited in our Sith options. But take my opinion for what it's worth: Absolutely nothing.

Jedi Knight Squad - We’ve talked about this one before, so I won’t go into too much detail. Suffice it to say that I disagree about generic Jedi needing *all* of those abilities, and thus I am more optimistic about the chances of getting a squad of generic Jedi who feel distinct from existing melee-based units. On the other hand, I agree the Republic might not *need* such a unit, since they will likely have a high number of melee-based Jedi commanders and operatives.

Large Vehicles - 100% agree. The already announced vehicles are as big of units as I would like to see.

Medic Droids - I hadn’t really considered it, but having combat medics would be a great way to differentiate Republic from Empire.

Palpatine/Sidious - I think we will get him for CIS. Yeah, he didn’t exactly lead Troopers, but neither did the Emperor and he became a commander pretty quickly.

Qui-Gon Jinn - Sometimes popularity overrides logic, so I think he’ll appear even though I agree it doesn’t make a lot of sense time-wise. If we do get him, I plan to paint him as a Force ghost.

ARC Trooper Squad - Fives is one of my favorite characters, so I’d love to see him as an Operative, perhaps with an Echoes counterpart. I could also see them being an upgrade for Corp units, similar to how Imperial Officers can be units or Corp unit upgrades.

Swamp Speeder - Agreed, not needed.

Darth Jar Jar - I do kind of hope when Jar Jar inevitably gets added to the game one of his command cards comes from the Clone Wars episode in which he’s mistaken for a Jedi.

6 hours ago, Dcalov said:

While attempting not to add any fuel to the fire I'd just like to say that I don't think FFG really cares about realistic timelines all that much. Aside from them never mentioning that they do, or giving us any indication that they do: This isn't supposed to be a game that tells some sort of set narrative in the Star Wars universe. I'd love a game like that (I'm working on a guide for campaign rules I'm making.. It'll be complete and surface on here hopefully before next August), but I don't think FFG is concerning themselves with it. Jyn Erso never fought alongside Han Solo, but she can in Legion even though she was dead before Han even cared about the rebellion.

Even though I just made a case for Qui-Gon, I'm still guessing we'll see Maul, but not Qui-Gon. Not necessarily because Qui-Gon is dead during the main conflict of CW, but because there is such an abundance of Jedi that I believe should be added first. We're rather limited in our Sith options. But take my opinion for what it's worth: Absolutely nothing.

I wasn't talking strictly about timelines. Darth Maul never fought alongside the CIS, full stop. He battled Jedi at the same time as the Trade Federation was blockading a planet, and under orders of his master who was also manipulating the Trade Federation attempted to kidnap a queen. Jyn and Han Solo both fought alongside the Rebellion at various points, so that's a separate consideration. If we're going to lump Maul into the CIS because he "helped" the Trade Federation, then Qui-Gon in my opinion has as much justification for being in the Republic army: He fought on Naboo while the Gungans and Naboo security forces (who are both part of the Republic army in a similar fashion to the Trade Federation being part of the CIS) were fighting. I also feel neither of them should be included by FFG in any existing faction. People are more than welcome to use a 3D printed model as Qui-Gon with

There's already four Sith that can be included as commanders/operatives in the CIS faction without including one who was never part of the CIS: Darth Sidious (which I hope they don't include, but they already did once so...) , Dooku, Asajj Ventress, and Savage Opress. Being limited on Sith options is kind of the point of the Rule of two, and by a similar logic Yoda should be included in the Rebel army: he fought against the Emperor years before the Rebel alliance was a thing, and there aren't a lot of Jedi to be included in GCW era, while the Empire has the Inquisition. Plus, two of the better known Jedi are being used as Pilots, and it's possible they "include" a few of them in a generic Jedi Commander/Operative box (as head/torso swaps, I think the generic Commander is more likely to be a Clone Commander though), leave them out entirely, or add them much later (example: Lando for GCW).

5 minutes ago, GooeyChewie said:

Darth Jar Jar - I do kind of hope when Jar Jar inevitably gets added to the game one of his command cards comes from the Clone Wars episode in which he’s mistaken for a Jedi.

Hmm, that would either be a card causing a bunch of suppression to go out, or give him some number of Dodge tokens while also giving him an effect like Reckless Diversion...

Although, he'll probably innately have Reckless Diversion from just how your opponent reacts, regardless of any actual rules 😛.

As promised, here's part two:
https://butsuppression.blogspot.com/2019/10/republic-musings-pt-ii.html

Republic Musings, Pt. II

Units the Republic needs.

Well, if you read the last article, you know what's coming in this one. Last time I thought about the future of the Republic in Legion and rejected a few unit ideas for a variety of reasons, be they balance issues, lore accuracy, or my plain old simple bias. This time, I'm going to talk about units that I think would greatly benefit the Republic as a game faction, and possibly bring something new for the game.

Begun the Clone War, has. Lead your troops to victory, you shall.

Unlike the normal "X unit would be so cool!" posts, hopefully, I can justify why these units would benefit the game in general, and the Republic Faction in particular. I can't guarantee I'll always be able to do that, but I will try. To keep things somewhat clear, I'll organize this by unit types. I will not mention characters, as those are usually pretty obvious, and usually fill out two categories (Commanders and Operatives). We all want Mace, Anakin, Padme, and Fives in the game, so there's really no need to go into detail on them.

Subfactions

Gungans/Naboo
Let's start with the most controversial option: Gungans. With the Gungans and Naboo Security, FFG has a perfect opportunity to dive into subfactions. Gungans and the Naboo fought the Trade Federation in Episode I, and later fought the CIS during the Clone Wars, meaning they fit the time period. They were used by the Republic to supplement the GAR in both the EU/Legends and in the current canon. And, most importantly, they offer a unique style of gameplay and unit structure, with an emphasis on close range and melee weapons, with shields and even Deflect being available all the way down to the Corps level. People may not be the biggest Jar Jar fans, but he and the Gungans would bring a lot to the game, and be pretty iconic. The Naboo would also be interesting, as they could represent more than just the guys in Episode I; repainted, their security forces could represent any number of planetary security forces or militias called up to fight the war on the Republic's behalf. They'd also be quite different than the Gungans or Clones in play style, and very similar to the Rebels in the sense that they'd be light and fast attack units. While there is some danger with faction identity problems with subfactions, I hope that the Gungans and Naboo are eventually brought into the game.

"Wesa make a grand subfaction for your army!"

Commanders

Generic Jedi
If you read the last article, you know I am very much against Jedi Knight squads. I feel that for a squad of 3 or more minis, it would be difficult to make them feel like Jedi but still be balanced. The solution to this problem would be to have generic Jedi Knights as both commanders and operatives. Their stats could be scaled down slightly from Obi's (say, 1R/2B/1W, Pierce, Critical, Impact 2) to make them cheaper, yet they would still feel like the space monks we all know and love. A benefit of a generic Jedi is it allows players to bring in their favorite Jedi well before they receive the official treatment, or allows for some custom character creation. The command chards available to a generic Jedi could also be an interesting departure from the norm. Instead of just having faction cards, the Generic Jedi and generic Clone Commander could share two of their three cards but have one that specifically works for them, with another character. For the Jedi, this could be something like "Guardians of Peace and Justice" and work for that unit, and another Jedi character.

Leading from the front, just like a good General should.

Generic Clone Commander
In a similar vein, I'd like a generic Clone Commander. This guy would serve many of the same benefits as the generic Jedi but be the natural clone counterpart. For fans of Fordo, Wolffe, or Cody, this would be a good way of getting their hero into the game early and encourage cool paint jobs and customization. As I said above, the generic Clone Commander could have its own unique command chard, something along the lines of "Brothers in Arms" which works with it and another Commander or Operative Clone Trooper.

Pick your Commander, and lead your troops.

Operatives

ARC Troopers
This one is again a continuation of the last article. In case there is any confusion, I want ARC Troopers in this game. I just want them to feel like actual ARCs rather than slightly better regular troopers. As such, they should be in smaller units, either solo or in two-man teams similar to the strike team, but without the heavy weapon. For their abilities, I think building them a mini Boba Fett would be both logical and interesting. Have two of their cards give them special weapons (flame thrower and/or electro whip taser, or possibly an area effect ion pulse), while the third gives a bonus to friendly troops. This could be as simple as X number of surge tokens, or more interesting like they gain Surge to Hit/Block for the rest of the round. This could be limited in a variety of ways, but would still be interesting to see.

"We're here to kick *** and chew bubble gum, and these helmets make chewing bubble gum really awkward!"

Jedi Knight Operative
Not all Jedi were meant for leadership roles, and some would make better operatives than commanders. This would be still yet another way to have Jedi in the game other than grouping them into squads. In the operative role, I think their command cards should grant them extra Force powers, or allow for extra actions during their activation. Additionally, if limited in this way, the operative should have a slightly higher attack pool or a reduced cost.

"Leading troops isn't my style, but going undercover and falling to the dark side? That's my specialty!"

Corps

Galactic Marines
This one should be a no brainer for anyone who knows the least amount about the various subtypes of Clone Troopers. Galactic Marines would be the Republic's third corps option, and I think they'd make for great close combat specialists, along the lines of Fleet troopers. As we see them with a flamethrower during the Geonosis arc of TCW, that would make sense, making them a hybrid of Fleet Troopers and Snowtroopers. Additionally, since this was a unit known for achieving victory despite heavy casualties, their courage value would need to be at least 2.

"And that's what you get for calling us Snowtroopers!"

Special Forces

Clone Paratroopers
I'll admit to being biased on this one, due to my own background. That said, Clone Paras would bring a unique skill set to the game, as they would be a combination of Deathtroopers and Rebel Patfinders. Infiltrate makes sense, though I could see them gaining their own keyword, such as "Airborne" that allows them to make a Rapid Reinforcement-like deployment in during the game. It would also be cool if when paired with Rapid Reinforcement, they could make a single action on deployment, be it an attack, move, or something like dodging. This would fit with Paratrooper's historic role of dropping on top of defended positions, and immediately plunging into the fight. As Ace pointed out during our discussion, Paras should also have the "LGOP" keyword (look it up) that would prevent them from panicking if they were outside of a commander's bubble. The counter to all of this awesome stuff would be their cost and their reduced range of weapons. A DC-15 would be the heaviest weapon they should get, and even then, it might need to be reduced to range 3. This would leave them vulnerable to heavy vehicles, or getting caught in the open.

"What do you mean Purge troopers are stealing our helmets?"

Clone Commandos
Do I really need to go into these guys? I mean, if you've ever played Republic Commando, read any of the books, or even seen these guys in Battlefront II, you know what level of badass you're dealing with here. I would make these guy hyper lethal, with a solid melee (maybe even pierce on those vibroblade gauntlets) and weapon configuration cards that would allow the entire unit to snipe (without pierce mind you) at, at least, range 4 if not range 5. They would also have a close-range grenade launcher config with Impact and blast, much like Deathtroopers. The downside would be they could not have a squad larger than 4 figures, and they'd still only be 1 health apiece. Gen focused fire, and you'll start to lose very expensive minis, which is pretty thematic on how they are described in the books.

"Play Vode An. I'm not asking again!"

Temple Guards
Fine, you guys want Jedi squads? Here you go. Temple Guards could be the Republic's melee SF unit. Give 'em an OK attack, and no pierce, and a single Force power for the lot of 'em. Unlike Knights, we really don't see these guys in action, so a reduced power version wouldn't be lore breaking, nor would it be as hard to balance. The plus side with them would be they'd have Guardian and Inspire, and maybe a keyword that lets 'em use dodges in Guardian like Kenobi. Two health apiece and three minis would give the unit a fair amount of meat to chew through. Their upgrade could be a senior guard, and instead of a weapon, he gives another Force upgrade slot, and maybe even Master of the Force 1.

"Aint nobody besides Darth Vader, Cade Bane, and a bunch of others gonna get past us!"

Senate Guards/Commandos
I could see Senate guards as a ranged attack version of the Temple Guards. Give them a high guardian value, decent attack, and fair defense. Like with the Royal Guard, a melee centered upgrade could be interesting, as it would make them a defensive jack of all trades. Senate Guards would naturally be a shoehorn for Entourage keywords on Padme or if Chancellor Palpatine ever was introduced into the game. I can see them being used to take hits for Jedi characters while they move forward into range, while at the same time taking shots on their own.

"Our helmets have plooms, your argument is invalid."

ARF Troopers
I'll admit that I didn't originally include Advanced Recon Force troopers in my write up. I really didn't know how to include them, but I decided that one role really hadn't been filled out yet: snipers, scouts, and saboteurs. These guys would essentially fill the same role as the GCW's Scout Troopers and Rebel Commandos. I'd give them red defense die, but a mediocre attack. Their main role would be to harass, or possibly babysit an objective. If an indirect fire ever comes out, they might make excellent forward observers. To further their recon role, it would be interesting to see them have "Spotter" and help generate aim tokens for other units.

"See those guys at range 5? Shoot 'em!"

Jet Troopers
This is another one that I wasn't originally going to include, but decided to just to get some opinions. These guys would basically be Phase II clones with Jump 2, speed 3, and an Ion rifle for their only heavy weapon. Their main advantage would be that they can move really, really fast and ignore terrain for one of their moves. This would give the Republic a hypermobile infantry unit, but one that lacks teeth against anything besides droids and vehicles. I worry about their balance with objectives like capture the supplies, however, as three of these units could rapidly grab a box or three and dip out. What do you think?

"Training? Nah, knowing how to use these things is genetic!"

Support

AT-RTs
This is another one that should be a no brainer. AT-RTs were, before Battlefront II(2), only seen during the Clone Wars. While I understand why they weren't in the core set, the RT really needs to come home to the Republic faction. If FFG is worried about "faction identity" and having the same or similar units in multiple factions, there are a few ways they could differentiate them. The easiest would be weapon hardpoint upgrades. For the Republic, give them the laser cannon, and a light repeating blaster that throws a couple of black and a ton of white dice, and that's it. At the same time, issue an errata for the Rebel upgrades limiting them to Rebel use only. If they wanted to go any further, they could increase the RT's defensive die a bit, while also increasing the price, or do a combination of price changes, Armor to Armor X, and better defensive die. Finally, they could add a keyword like Jump to them, as we often seen Republic AT-RTs hopping around like freaking frogs. There are several ways to make them different if that's the important thing and no real reason why the Republic should lose out on one of its main vehicles.

Uparmored frogger from ****.

Clone E-Web/EWHB-12
This is another unit I'll admit my bias on; I love E-Webs. I "won" an RPQ with a pair of them in my list, and developed a list where I ran 3, and loved it. As such, I personally would love to see the E-Web, or it's slightly tweaked Clone Wars version, the EWHB-12, come over to the Republic. The weapon has several appearances in TCW, and in the EU/Legends as well, so its not completely out of left field. As far as stats and price, I think the Imperial version is pretty close to what we should see. Naturally, tweaks would need to be made to the price to account for Clones being on the gun instead of Snowtroopers, but those should only be a couple of points. The attack pool should be similar, though if they want to drop the red die to add another black and white, it would likely work. For upgrades, the Clone E-Web/EWHB-12 would be a great chance to include new ones. One that would work great would be a generator upgrade that increases your attack range by 1, at the cost of only throwing half your die. It wouldn't be broken, but it would help the Republic start to get a stake in the Range 4 game.

"Don't worry, I can hold 'em off. I've got a Space Maxim!"

Blurrgs
Blurrgs are another one that should be a no brainer. With Tauntauns making quite the splash, and Dewback riders gnashing their teeth in vain over the delay, all four factions will likely get their own Creature troopers eventually. For the Republic, at least for non-Gungan Republic forces, blurrgs make as much sense as anything else. Their appearance in the upcoming Mandalorian only helps make the case here, as they'll be one of the few options that will have received both the animated and the live-action (well, CGI) treatment. Blurrgs are also interesting as we see Clones ride them, though I personally hope that instead of Clone riders, we get Twi'lek or other native troops riding them.

I bet they smell bad on the inside and the outside!

Heavy

Delta-7 Jedi Starfighter
This may come as a bit of a surprise for some people; it certainly came as a surprise to me. The Delta-7 would make an excellent heavy for Legion. It would give the game another aircraft, but one that wouldn't be overpowered like an X-Wing or Y-Wing likely would be. At 8 meters long, it's a little over 2 meters longer than the T-47, less than a meter longer than the Occupier, meaning it could likely fit on either base quite easily. While that may sound long, the Delta-7 would have far less mass than the Occupier, and most of the mass it does have would be towards the rear, where the supporting peg would be. It's usually armed with only the two dual laser cannons, though we do see it drop bombs during the 2003 Clone Wars series. Besides being iconic, the Delta-7 would make for an interesting place to put more Jedi pilots, and possibly to create some non-vehicle specific pilot options for the Republic.

Sleek and deady, protecting the peace one war at a time!

AV-7
Finally, some true artillery. Likely on the upper end of what we can expect in Legion, the AV-7 Antivehicle cannon would make for a great unit to introduce indirect fire into the game. We see it being used in this role in the 2008 Clone Wars cartoon, and it was quite effective in that role. Though FFG has shown reluctance in introducing indirect fire, the AV-7 expansion could handle this in a variety of ways. Easiest would be to allow it to use the line of sight of units with the "Spotter" keyword to make an attack. If that's too open or easy, there are other ways of addressing it. When making indirect fire attacks, the defender could always have the benefit of heavy cover, to simulate the inaccuracy of artillery fire. Instead of using Spotter, a new keyword could be created, such as "Forward Observer," which would be either organic on a unit, or given through a comm upgrade. Another option would be to have both the AV-7 and the forward observer unit require an upgrade called "Fires Net" to make the indirect shot. However it is done, indirect fire could be introduced to Legion, and the AV-7 is the unit to make it happen.

And they said indirect fire isn't part of Star Wars!

AT-AP
Like the AV-7, the AT-AP is probably at the upper end of what we should see in Legion. Standing at 11 meters, the AT-AP is a couple of meters taller than the AT-ST. This would, of course, make it the tallest unit in the game. It would also be one of the heaviest armed, with a 360 turret-mounted medium laser cannon, and a chin-mounted dual-light laser cannon, and then its main gun: the hull-mounted mass driver. As FFG is doing with the Saber tank and the AAT, the mass driver could be a munitions hardpoint, allowing the player to customize exactly what it does, and how it operates. I would think a mechanic could be introduced that requires the AT-AP to have its third leg down to fire the mass driver, while at the same time limiting the mass driver to being fired only once every other turn. To make up for this, the mass driver would be an extremely powerful weapon, likely able to hit the enemy at range 5. This is fitting, as the AT-AP in lore was referred to as the "sniper tank."

Is that a mass driver cannon, or are you just happy to see me?

Misc
There are of course more options for the Republic. The Gunship, for instance, is incredibly iconic and would be an amazing unit to see, but practicalities make it somewhat difficult to introduce. The Eta II Jedi interceptor is another good option, but would likely overlap the Delta-7 too much to be really unique, and I personally prefer the Delta-7 more. Finally, units like the AT-XT would be awesome but likely won't happen because they belong to the now-defunct EU/Legends stories, rather than the Mouse-approved canon. Maybe one day we'll get them, but at the moment, I doubt it.

It might not be canon, but the AT-XT is one sexy walker.

Final Thoughts

Well, you made it to the end! Congrats on sitting through part two of my musings. Hopefully, it wasn't too painful! What do you guys think? Do you like my ideas for units, or am I hopelessly off the mark? Let me know! If you enjoyed the article, check us out on Facebook. We're just a couple of likes away from hitting our first milestone of 100 likes, so everyone helps!

Thanks for reading!

@Alpha17 I agree with most of this second list, I'm not as sold on the Heavy options, but we'll see what FFG gives us. Similarly, any lightsaber armed squad is probably unlikely, since the current design of lightsabers involves at least Impact 1 Pierce 1 per saber, so a Squad of 3-4 ends up with Impact 3-4, Pierce 3-4, which would be the most powerful melee unit so far in my opinion.

33 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@Alpha17 I agree with most of this second list, I'm not as sold on the Heavy options, but we'll see what FFG gives us. Similarly, any lightsaber armed squad is probably unlikely, since the current design of lightsabers involves at least Impact 1 Pierce 1 per saber, so a Squad of 3-4 ends up with Impact 3-4, Pierce 3-4, which would be the most powerful melee unit so far in my opinion.

They could probably come up with some Keyword to make the most pierce/impact you can have 1 or 2, thus preventing them from just piling enemy vehicles and other units. Either that or make it so only the squad leader gains pierce/impact. they could find a solution, though I'd rather they make them a single figure or two figure unit to make sure that's not as big of a problem. Ya'know theoretically and all

7 hours ago, ArcticJedi said:

They could probably come up with some Keyword to make the most pierce/impact you can have 1 or 2, thus preventing them from just piling enemy vehicles and other units. Either that or make it so only the squad leader gains pierce/impact. they could find a solution, though I'd rather they make them a single figure or two figure unit to make sure that's not as big of a problem. Ya'know theoretically and all

Ugh, I'd rather they didn't keep adding rules for one off units. Part of the allure is the relative simplicity. And giving just a lightsaber to the leader (or "required attached upgrade mini with the Leader rule and a melee sidearm[Edit: a melee sidearm that is the only source of Pierce and Impact for the squad]") isn't very representative of the [Edit: in universe squad being represented. Especially since then the Pierce and Impact value doesn't lessen as members die.]

2 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Ugh, I'd rather they didn't keep adding rules for one off units. Part of the allure is the relative simplicity. And giving just a lightsaber to the leader (or "required attached upgrade mini with the Leader rule and a melee sidearm") isn't very representative of the squad.

I meant that only the leader would get the pierce/impact, that way it doesn't stack to much, they would still have their dice, but only the leader would have the keyword. Sorry if you misunderstood

1 hour ago, ArcticJedi said:

I meant that only the leader would get the pierce/impact, that way it doesn't stack to much, they would still have their dice, but only the leader would have the keyword. Sorry if you misunderstood

No I got it. But then the unit doesn't have the correct "feel" for being entirely armed with lightsabers. The phrase in parentheses was one way it could be implemented without introducing a bunch of new rules.

Ah so I was the mistaken one, my apologies. I understand what your saying now.

I've been meaning to reply to your second post for a bit Alpha. There are things I love about your second list, and a few things I don't care for all that much. Let's start with the stuff that I like.

Blurrgs and AT-RT's are a must. I've always loved blurrgs, and like you, I think they're a no-brainer for republic creature troopers. I'm not sure how we would differentiate them from taun-tauns and dewbacks but hey, that's for the game designers to figure out! Second thing I really liked were the ARF troopers. They could fill an easy SF scouts role. AT-RT's have to come back to the GAR, where they belong. I agree with you that there's plenty of ways we could differentiate them. I particularly liked the Delta-7 as an air unit for the GAR. I hope that we'll eventually see vultures, and I'd love to see something in the air other than airspeeders that can combat them. I like the idea of generic jedi, but I'd like to see a generic master/padawan PAIR as an operative unit (Or a couple of knights). I think that'd be the best way to put generic jedi in the game. AT-AP is quite large, but could work in the way you described. In terms of a CIS answer to it, the OG9 Homing Spider Droid would be perfect.

Now for the things I don't particularly like (I mean for Legion.. I love just about all of the things you listed). I don't like the idea of the AV-7 being included. It's massive. If we can fit that we can fit And it's meant to target things that would be way off any legion map. I think mortars can work okay at this scale, but not dedicated artillery. I love the galactic marines but the way you describe them makes them sound a little too much like a snowtrooper reskin. I don't have a solution, and I do want to see them, so hopefully our Legion designers have a plan for them. It's kind of the same old story for the E-web. It's a cool idea, and would give the clones a nice emplacement option, but it rings too near to the imperial analogue.

Just my two cents. Keep up the good work. I'm looking forward to your next post!

Mace should be out there as a commander, Anakin and Yoda if nobody else!

Maul and Jango should be an agents of sort.

Wookie commandos, Gungans!, ARC troops, Separatist Saboteurs/ Commandos.

Small tanks and fighters are ideal but go too big and your looking at a new format to the game...going from battles to wars!

20 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@Alpha17 I agree with most of this second list, I'm not as sold on the Heavy options, but we'll see what FFG gives us. Similarly, any lightsaber armed squad is probably unlikely, since the current design of lightsabers involves at least Impact 1 Pierce 1 per saber, so a Squad of 3-4 ends up with Impact 3-4, Pierce 3-4, which would be the most powerful melee unit so far in my opinion.

I actually agree, which is why I'm dead set against most Jedi squads. The only reason I think it would work with the Temple Guards is that we really don't see them in combat, and as "guards" they likely aren't as skilled in combat as people who are on the front lines daily. As such, limiting their ability to pierce makes a tad bit more sense. (the fact that pierce is an optional keyword implies that some skill is involved on behalf of the user, and perhaps these guys lack that skill all together) Considering the number of people both her and on FB demanding a generic Jedi unit, I fear FFG will give them one eventually, and just hope they find a way to make it make at least a little sense.

6 hours ago, Dcalov said:

II like the idea of generic jedi, but I'd like to see a generic master/padawan PAIR as an operative unit (Or a couple of knights). I think that'd be the best way to put generic jedi in the game.

Now for the things I don't particularly like (I mean for Legion.. I love just about all of the things you listed). I don't like the idea of the AV-7 being included. It's massive. If we can fit that we can fit And it's meant to target things that would be way off any legion map. I think mortars can work okay at this scale, but not dedicated artillery. I love the galactic marines but the way you describe them makes them sound a little too much like a snowtrooper reskin. I don't have a solution, and I do want to see them, so hopefully our Legion designers have a plan for them. It's kind of the same old story for the E-web. It's a cool idea, and would give the clones a nice emplacement option, but it rings too near to the imperial analogue.

Just going to address you issues, since I don't think I should refute you when you're agreeing with me!

I covered my problems with any multiple mini Jedi unit in my first article, and while I understand the desire for a master/apprentice pair, I'm still not sure it would work well with pierce/impact/etc. We'll see though.

The AV-7 would be large, but I think it could work . In TCW we see it firing at things both far away and relatively close, so the lore is there. Mortars would certainly be a better option, but FFG has already wasted releases on giving us "mortars" in name only. If we're going to get indirect at all (which the game needs, IMO) it'll come through dedicated artillery units.

I think there are several ways they could make Galactic Marines a CQC specialist unit that would still be distinctive from snowtroopers. Courage two is one thing I mention, and giving them a speed 2 move with tactical baked in, instead of steady, would offer similar, but completely different, abilities. While the flamethrower would be similar to the Snows, I can see them having either the DC-15 or the DP-23, and each would give them different range bands than Snows.

Finally, with the E-Web, there is only so much you can do with a tripod mounted gun that's about the same size and function. Compare a WWI MGs like the Vickers, Maxim, and Browning M1917, and you get incredibly similar stats and performance. Even the Rebel Mk. II has a lot of similarities to the Imperial E-Web, just with reduced performance to account for the reduced size and price. As we already know the size of the Clone E-Web or EWHB-12, that's not really an option. Personally, I don't see the problem with a few units having overlap. The Republic turned into the Empire after all, so it make sense that some designs and weapons carried on.

Keep the comments coming! I love talking about this.

And a thank you to anyone that gave the Facebook page a like. We hit 100 likes yesterday, and we're looking forward to continuing to grow!

1 hour ago, Alpha17 said:

I covered my problems with any multiple mini Jedi unit in my first article, and while I understand the desire for a master/apprentice pair, I'm still not sure it would work well with pierce/impact/etc. We'll see though.

I'm mostly in agreement with you, I just think we're more likely to see a pair of generics than an entire squad since there's so many named jedi already.

1 hour ago, Alpha17 said:

The AV-7 would be large, but I think it could work . In TCW we see it firing at things both far away and relatively close, so the lore is there. Mortars would certainly be a better option, but FFG has already wasted releases on giving us "mortars" in name only. If we're going to get indirect at all (which the game needs, IMO) it'll come through dedicated artillery units.

I agree that FFG really dropped the ball on the mortars. I used to play Flames of War, and indirect fire is a huge part of that game and really not all that complicated. Shoot, that game used templates and everything. It would have been so easy to make indirect fire a part of Legion. *Sigh* Oh well.. And upon a second look the AV-7 has a much smaller footprint than I thought it did. Maybe we could get the AV-7 and the Hailfire? I wouldn't be disappointed in either of these releases. I guess I just wish they did mortars right, but if this is the only way we get indirect fire, I want it. The only problem is if they introduce indirect fire in any capacity everyone will be doubly confused as to why the mortars don't have it. Fingers crossed for an errata or optional rule? I think I'll house-rule it in.

2 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

I think there are several ways they could make Galactic Marines a CQC specialist unit that would still be distinctive from snowtroopers. Courage two is one thing I mention, and giving them a speed 2 move with tactical baked in, instead of steady, would offer similar, but completely different, abilities. While the flamethrower would be similar to the Snows, I can see them having either the DC-15 or the DP-23, and each would give them different range bands than Snows.

These are good ideas. I like the idea of giving them a DC-15 as well. Having a mostly cqc focused unit with a long range weapon would be kind of interesting, although I suppose that would make them awfully close to a scout trooper squad with a DLT sniper. They should have unhindered too. Tactical is my favorite keyword in legion, and I hope more elite units get it.

With the E-Web, I see your point and I don't mind some unit overlap, but I'd still prefer something different.