Matt Cary discusses secondary weapons that he would like to see back in the game, and ways to reign in the OP ones while buffing the weapons that never saw play. Check it out here, and let us know if you agree or disagree.

Charges fix so many broken things about the worst 1e offenders.

I really want autoblaster back to make the VCX functional again. I’d make it a 1-dice, range 1 attack with 2 recurring charges that let you either add one die(to a max of 2) or add one range.

hits may not be cancelled by evade results, crits before hits same as 1e

I could see Hotshot Blaster working. Make it a one-charge card, make it unable to fire out the forward arc, and make the attack unable to be modified, and I'd argue it can be a fairly cheap 'surprise' against being outflanked without having to bother with arc indicators.

Interesting read. Thanks!

My thoughts:

• Autoblaster Turret
  • Keeping the "During the Neutralize Results step, if you are not in the defender's , results do not cancel " seems fine - without the bonus die from bullseye, and more importantly without a reliably way to get that critical, it doesn't seem too bad. I can see a bunch of Y-wings and Gavin Darklighter being the closest you'd get to an 'exploit' of this. Dropping the attack value to 1 makes sense. Keeping it range 1 only might be sensible too; that keeps it in line with the turrets have a range 1 less than cannons.
• Synched Turret
  • The point of synched turret is that it's 'synced' to your primary weapons; so it gets benefits if you're in a position to fire both. A lot of turret-wielding ships do that anyway now, pretty much nailing the turret forward, since veteran turret gunner allows double-taps much akin to the old BTL-A4 Y-wing Title.
  • I'm hesitant - even with a token requirement - to allow a 3-dice turret with built-in modification; since you're getting rerolls without spending the token, and a target lock is a persistent token, it feels "just plain better" than the dorsal turret.
  • I could accept a 3-dice turret if it was basically 'nailed forward' - i.e. " You can set your indicator only to your "; at that point it becomes a target-lock-eating way to give a ship with a turret slot a 3-dice attack and/or fuel a veteran turret gunner, but cannot be set to fire in any other arc.
• Blaster Turret
  • Again, this can't be either 'better' or 'worse' than the dorsal turret; it needs to be fundamentally different. I'm not sure what to suggest here. 'Blasters' are supposed to be lighter, handier weapons, so instead of trying to clone the 1.0 effect (remember it was the first straight 'damage turret' in an era where all secondary weapons that weren't the heavy laser cannon sucked), maybe go with that - it's a weaker turret (2 dice is more than enough), and has the Attack ( ) trigger, but give it a degree of flexibility - "While you perform an attack, before attack dice are rolled, you may spend 1 focus token to perform a red action. If you do, the defender rolls 1 additional defence die."
• Twin Laser Turret
  • A 2-dice turret attack seems fair (2 dice is a 'twin laser' on a TIE fighter, after all). Making it range 3 is okay - since, as noted, a 2-dice attack at range 3 isn't much to write home about. 'Charge based' bonus attacks is one option - I would as ever, though, draw attention to massed Y-wings which can double-tap regardless - especially the scum flavour with cheap access to Drea Renthal. They'd probably be happy enough with a range 2-3 turret even if it didn't double-tap on its own. I'd wonder if making it range 3 only might be warranted, or otherwise actively prohibiting it from pointing forwards.
• Flechette cannon
  • The problem with having a 3-dice attack that you can cancel-hits-for-stress is that it's then essentially only a relevant option for a ship with a 2-dice primary. If you have a 3-dice primary, then all you're doing is giving the target a defensive option that they don't have to use if they think you're at all able to exploit its downside.
  • I agree with not wanting massed weaponized stress (it wasn't fun for anyone) but you might come up with something more tolerable for flechette weapons by looking at strain tokens instead.
• "Mangler" Cannon
  • I'm very, very hesitant about this. It's not just the critical; it's the fact that it's a way to give a Gunboat or Scyk a 3-dice attack which does full normal damage. This is a big issue unless you're going to make the price variable based on the ship's normal primary weapon value.
  • It's also the one cannon which I have no idea where it came from - ion weapons, laser weapons, flechette weapons, blasters, tractor beams, all of these were in star wars legends stuff at some point, but no-one's ever explained what the 'mangler' is supposed to be.
  • A critical-focused cannon is fine in theory; but frankly I'd be tempted to make it do something else.
  • Maybe make it a 'railgun' esque effect - bullseye only but you can make a bonus attack against a second ship in your bullseye (I realise bulleye-ing two ships in one go is unlikely but the mental image seems awesome to me)
• Arc Caster
  • You could always give it the 'ignores range bonuses' tag if the potential of 5 dice is too much. I agree automatic splash damage feels a bit too much - since it's random zap arcing, maybe roll an attack die and either you or your opponent decide who gets zapped by the proximity discharge?
• Linked Battery
  • Agreed. Let it remain dead
• Flechette Torpedo
  • See comment on flechette cannon
• Seismic Torpedoes
  • Given the existence of Trajectory Simulator/Seismic Charges, you can pretty much already do this. I don't totally object to giving ships with torpedoes but not payload access to the effect, but it needs balancing carefully, and I'm not convinced it's necessary. Making it Attack rather Action than is a good start; if you blow away a gas cloud you shouldn't then be able to shoot the now damaged and vulnerable target.
• Extra Munitions
  • Agreed. Let it remain dead
• Bomb Loadout/Renegade Refit
  • Irrelevant for reasons stated
• Scrambler Missiles
  • Jam-capable missiles. For starters, you've got Mag-Pulse Warheads coming down the spout in the not-too-distant. Making the Scramblers a non-damaging splash jam weapon could be interesting, though; I guess you could adapt diamond-boron missiles effect and just turn all damage to jam tokens.
• Cruise Missiles
  • I loved cruise missiles myself. My main observation is that to date there has not been a true 4-dice cruise missile; either they've been low-attack-damage or bullseye-locked; if you want simple, gratuitous damage you need to be a heavier chassis capable of carrying torpedoes. I'd be hesitant to upset that balance.
  • That doesn't mean you can't have cruise missiles, but the requirements should be more stringent. I'd almost be tempted to start them at 0 attack dice and remove the 'cap' - so if you want a 4-dice or 5-dice shot, you're locked into a high-speed, straight-line-only attack run.
  • Speed 3 turn and fire what's basically proton torpedoes feels a bit too good - especially since a TIE defender can carry them, and get full throttle at the same time so it's not even suffering a 'vulnerable moment' whilst it acquires its target lock.
• Harpoon Missiles
  • Again....yeah. I'd not throw my toys out the pram, but if you're going to give it a lingering bomb effect, the condition needs updating. My concern is that if you take it down to 3 dice, it basically feels like you've made a knock-off concussion missile.
  • I'd remove the splash damage and focus on the harpoon going off doing extra damage to the target and the target only; that makes it an interesting tool to the low-primary-weapon missile carrier against something with a lot of hull damage - lob a harpoon into it, and the target needs to remove it (ideally wasting actions!) or wait for it to go off, removing a sizeable chunk of said hull.
  • Making it require an unshielded target to apply the condition makes sense, too. Dropping the shields with primaries and then using harpoons is a bit of a reverse of normal alpha strike logic but difference is not a bad thing.
• Assault Missiles
  • As noted, Diamond-boron missiles have this covered for crowd control.
  • If you really want to introduce them, then it's worth noting the full name was "Assault Concussion Missile" - they're a thing in armada because they're a capital-ship calibre bombardment missile. Inaccurate as heck but not something you want to get hit by.
  • Making them a Large Ship Only missile might be interesting - making the Outrider, Falcon and Hound's Tooth seriously consider packing something in their missile tubes; give them a low attack rating, and/or give the target bonus defence dice, but don't allow reinforce to mitigate the damage and deliver a sizeable extra whock of damage (a la plasma torpedoes or diamond-boron missiles) if they hit.
• Advanced Homing Missiles
  • I'd do something completely off the wall. Advanced Homing Missiles are long range smart missiles. Make them a remote - high agility, fast, and able to resolve their attack if they end up at....range 0 of a target. That gives you a 'beyond range 3 attack' but it takes several turns to arrive, you can potentially outfly it and it can be shot down en route. Think the smart missiles (which ultimately prove to contain buzz droids) from revenge of the sith.
• XX-23 Thread Tracers
  • Giving everyone a free lock is probably bad ju-ju. Yes, Tarkin does it, but he needs (a) a crew-carrying ship and (b) said ship to have acquired an unspent lock the previous turn.
  • I'd make it a condition; if you hit, assign the Homing Beacon condition. In the system phase, one ship at range 0-2 can acquire a target lock on you. Essentially, rather than everyone getting a lock at once, one ship a turn gets a free lock on you until you're dead.
• "Hot Shot" Blaster
  • Sounds nice. Making it a one use, side arc only gun is interesting and unique. Don't make it too powerful - given the range bonus, 2 dice is more than sufficient.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

• XX-23 Thread Tracers
  • Giving everyone a free lock is probably bad ju-ju. Yes, Tarkin does it, but he needs (a) a crew-carrying ship and (b) said ship to have acquired an unspent lock the previous turn.
  • I'd make it a condition; if you hit, assign the Homing Beacon condition. In the system phase, one ship at range 0-2 can acquire a target lock on you. Essentially, rather than everyone getting a lock at once, one ship a turn gets a free lock on you until you're dead.

Mostly this card existed as a way to get around the "TL to shoot" requirement in 1e for ordnance, so in a certain way, it's obsolete. OTOH, I like the thematic idea of a "homing device" that can mess with a ship.

As is, not everyone gets a lock, just friendlies close to you, so I'm not sure I agree with the first point. The Condition idea is kinda cool, but I kinda find Conditions an annoying, fussy part of the game. Also, in the long run, the Condition may allow more Locks over the course of a game than a "one-and-done" me-and-my-buddies-got-a-lock-now, especially on a Large ship.

• Bombs/Mines
  • Thermal Detonators: Baseline 1-drop, range 1 explosion, doing 1 regular damage. No stress. I'd make it a 3-charge, 7 point Payload upgrade. Basically, it'd be cheaper-per-drop than Proton Bombs, and carry more total drops, but hit less hard and require a higher initial investment.
• Cannon
  • Arc Caster: Too weird. I'd skip it. The recharging mechanism is cool, but I'd rather see it come back on a less strange design.
  • Flechette Cannon: I don't really like on-demand stress control. Maybe 2-dice, defender may receive any number stress to cancel that many hit/crit results.
  • Linked Battery: agreed that this should be a 1e relic .
  • Mangler Cannon: I'm a party pooper here. Gone, never to return . I don't think there should be a 3-dice plain cannon. To that end, I don't think Barrage Rockets should exist in their current form.
    • It probably wouldn't be broken to have a cannon like "If this attack hits, spend 1 hit/crit result to cause the defender to suffer 1 critical damage. Then, cancel all results."
• Illicit
  • Hotshot Blaster. Probably a 2-dice, rear arc, range 1-2 weapon. Maybe make it give the user some sort of negative token, like a strain or an ion or something.
• Missile
  • Advanced Homing Missiles: Bin it . I appreciate the effort to make a really different missile, but it was never useful or popular or fun.
  • Assault Missile: DBM has replaced it, all good to let it remain in 1e .
  • Barrage Rockets: I think these should have been a 3-dice, Range 1-3 Ordnance, Bullseye weapon which required a Focus, 3 charges. Probably goes down to 1 slot, and would be fairly cheap (cheaper than Heavy Laser Cannon). I like the thought of there being a Focus-based option, and a cheaper option than Proton Rockets, but I philosophically don't want easy missiles . Ordnance should be hard, otherwise it turns any double-missile ship into essentially a 3-dice primary weapon ship, and that just messes all sorts of balance up. Current BR make it kind of impossible to price stuff like TIE Aggressors fairly, since they've got this 3-dice option.
  • Cruise Missile: @Magnus Grendel probably has it right. Start at 0, no cap. Maybe it should only be 1 charge.
    • There's also potentially some option for a double-missile upgrade which tosses out a remote which moves around the battlefield and eventually explodes on someone, but that's a whole other trip, and I don't really want to think about it.
  • Harpoon Missile: You know, why not keep most of it? I mostly thought it could have been fair in 1e if it just had a higher cost, to make it a not-absurd choice to go with some other sort of missile. 4-dice, range 2-3. 1 Charge (and cannot be recovered!). Attack [lock], If this attack hits, assign the "Harpooned!" condition to the defender. Harpooned! condition would basically be similar to before, but without the detonation-on-a-crit part. It'd explode on death (the Deadman Switch part), and you'd be able to discard it as an action (maybe with a chance of damage on a die roll, but probably just on a crit).
    • Another thought: Harpoon Missile as an Illicit/Missile upgrade. There wouldn't be too many ships which could actually equip it, though.
  • Scrambler Missiles: Maybe bring these back . Jam is an interesting mechanic, and without dealing damage, an AOE Jam is probably fair.
  • XX-23 S-Thread Tracers: Bring them back. We've got Passive Sensors, so this just democratizes the mid-combat Locking. I'd keep the basic attack profile (Focus, 3 dice, Range 1-3 Ordnance) but allow only the attacker and one friendly ship at Range 0-1 of the attacker to acquire the lock on the target . It wouldn't work as well for lighting up an entire squad with locks, but it does the job of getting a low-initiative ship a Lock.
• Torpedo
  • Flechette Torpedoes: I 'm actually kind of fine with this essentially coming back . 3 dice, range 2-3 ordnance. Probably 2 charges, but maybe just 1. Standard Attack [Lock]. If this attack hits, if the defender is not stressed, cancel one hit or crit result to assign 1 stress to the defender.
  • Seismic Torpedoes: Yeah, these can pretty much come back . I'd make the user need to roll some number of dice in order to explode the obstacle. Maybe it's 1 die only needing a hit. Maybe it's 4 dice needing a crit.
    • Oddball idea: what if it made everyone at Range 0-1 of the obstacle suffer the effects of overlapping the obstacle? A chance of damage from a rock, a stress and a chance of a crit from a debris, or nothing from a Gas Cloud
      • Damnation, Gas Clouds were foolish. They should have given strain to fly over them.
• Turret:
  • Autoblaster Turret: I'm inclined to bin it , even if switching to text like Autoblasters-cannon has. Unpreventable damage isn't fun, particularly on a turret. There's a big reason Outmaneuver is front-arc only.
  • Blaster Turret: I think @Magnus Grendel is right that it'd need to do something very different, but I don't have a good sense on what that could be.
  • Syched Turret: 3 dice, Range 1-2 (possibly with Ordnance symbol to deny the Range 1 bonus). It'd be Attack [Lock] without any extra text , but instead of granting a Rotate action like most Turrets, it'd grant a Lock > Red Rotate . You can't rotate it without stress, but you'll never be without dice mods, since you necessarily have a lock on the target. I don't think any sort of rerolls which don't make you spend the lock are necessary. I'd need to be fairly expensive, but it'd represent an actually-potent Turret option.
    • Interesting point: this actually locks out Veteran Turret Gunner, since you won't have a rotate action and can't equip it.
    • Why am I OK with a 3-dice turret but not a 3-dice cannon? Lock requirement.
  • Twin Laser Turret: 2 dice, Range 2-3, white rotate action. No fancy text, but it'd be a double-arc turret. Twin means two arcs, not two attacks . If you want bonus attacks, equip Veteran Turret Gunner like anyone else.

19 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Mostly this card existed as a way to get around the "TL to shoot" requirement in 1e for ordnance, so in a certain way, it's obsolete. OTOH, I like the thematic idea of a "homing device" that can mess with a ship.

As is, not everyone gets a lock, just friendlies close to you, so I'm not sure I agree with the first point. The Condition idea is kinda cool, but I kinda find Conditions an annoying, fussy part of the game. Also, in the long run, the Condition may allow more Locks over the course of a game than a "one-and-done" me-and-my-buddies-got-a-lock-now, especially on a Large ship.

Maybe not a full blown TL, but a condition, "Painted" we will call it that allows attackers to reroll one attack die against you. That way it is not quite as strong as an alpha, but still in effective way to get a bunch of generics to push damage through. As a condition it can persist to additional rounds, but I would make it an action to remove by the ship with the condition.

Arc Caster: A 2-die cannon with two charges that start out spent. At the start of the System phase, you can receive one Weapons Disabled token to recharge one charge token. When performing an attack, you must spend all charges to add one red die for each charge spent.

Synched Turret: Maybe you can spend the lock at the start of Engagement to perform a red Rotate action, but with the restriction that you can only rotate to an adjacent firing arc?

TLT could just become a bowtie turret, which opens up a lot of gunners to be useful on more ships than just the YTs.

I’m still miffed that there has to be range bonuses for some special weapons and not others.

45 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I’m still miffed that there has to be range bonuses for some special weapons and not others.

It’s along clear lines, with cannons and turrets (the most like primary weapons) holding to the same rules, while Munitions (the least like primary weapons and requiring tokens to fire) don’t.

1 hour ago, SuperWookie said:

TLT could just become a bowtie turret, which opens up a lot of gunners to be useful on more ships than just the YTs.

This would give Drea 270 degrees of rerolls for generics.

49 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I’m still miffed that there has to be range bonuses for some special weapons and not others.

It's pretty simple to me, cannons and turrets get bonuses. Every other secondary does not.

34 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

This would give Drea 270 degrees of rerolls for generics.

True, but that's also really not so terrible. It'd only be an extra side-arc compared to going with Dorsal (it matters a little, but not really much...), and a double-end TLT upgrade would probably be somewhere around 6-8 points. This would easily put Drea well up over 55 points, and the list just won't be that great. Whatever Scum list got put together, it'd probably be worse than Sinker Swarm.

The only really successful Drea swarm was back when Veteran Turret Gunner was cheap.

11 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Again, this can't be either 'better' or 'worse' than the dorsal turret; it needs to be fundamentally different.

I mean. That’s not true?

Proton Torpedoes are blatantly the best Torpedo in most situations. That’s why they cost considerably more.

You could have a Better Dorsal Turret just fine, so long as it’s costed appropriately.

I don’t like the idea of a TLT being a bow tie just because it’s two lasers on a single turret, not two turrets and not facing different directions.

Why are we getting so crazy with trying to make this work? What’s wrong with making it 2 dice, range 1-3, and if it misses, make a bonus attack with it against the same target.

Alternatively, 2 charges (1 recurring per turn) and the following: after making an attack with this weapon, spend 2 charges, you may make a bonus attack with this weapon against the same target.

8 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

[making TLT a bowtie] would give Drea 270 degrees of rerolls for generics.

I'd be against it just on the fact we'd have a bunch of ships running around with 270-degree arcs. IMO, allowing that much coverage on multiple ships is anathema to making turrets have arcs in the first place.

7 hours ago, FatherTurin said:

I don’t like the idea of a TLT being a bow tie just because it’s two lasers on a single turret, not two turrets and not facing different directions.

Why are we getting so crazy with trying to make this work? What’s wrong with making it 2 dice, range 1-3, and if it misses, make a bonus attack with it against the same target.

Completely agree with all of this.

TLT isn't a bow tie arc. That's not what bow ties represent. They're ships with two built in turrets like the Falcon or Decimator.

TLT giving a bonus attack if you miss is easily the best way to translate the idea that TLT is a turret built around accuracy without making it the super consistent chip damage of 1e's double tap.

You could also add the missile symbol to deny the range 3 bonus, to make those two dice worth taking as a long range turret. Though I'd limit the range to 2-3 myself.

This means that TLT still has the same max damage as 1e (2), but not as consistently, and it's still more accurate than a basic 2 dice primary so you get the same thematic vibe.

The extra coverage would make it worth taking on things like the Ghost as well, though that would obviously be cost dependent.

If people are still worried about balance on that, then give it a lock requirement too.

2 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

Completely agree with all of this.

TLT isn't a bow tie arc. That's not what bow ties represent. They're ships with two built in turrets like the Falcon or Decimator.

TLT giving a bonus attack if you miss is easily the best way to translate the idea that TLT is a turret built around accuracy without making it the super consistent chip damage of 1e's double tap.

You could also add the missile symbol to deny the range 3 bonus, to make those two dice worth taking as a long range turret. Though I'd limit the range to 2-3 myself.

This means that TLT still has the same max damage as 1e (2), but not as consistently, and it's still more accurate than a basic 2 dice primary so you get the same thematic vibe.

The extra coverage would make it worth taking on things like the Ghost as well, though that would obviously be cost dependent.

If people are still worried about balance on that, then give it a lock requirement too.

Also, I’m sure you noticed this, but calling it very specifically a “bonus attack” then comes up against the hard cap of one bonus attack per ship, and means you don’t have to worry about VTG or Ezra bringing back a triple tap.

Also, it should probably convert crits to hits a la HLC, to further get across the idea that it is about accuracy, not power.

10 hours ago, FatherTurin said:

I don’t like the idea of a TLT being a bow tie just because it’s two lasers on a single turret, not two turrets and not facing different directions.

Why are we getting so crazy with trying to make this work? What’s wrong with making it 2 dice, range 1-3, and if it misses, make a bonus attack with it against the same target.

Alternatively, 2 charges (1 recurring per turn) and the following: after making an attack with this weapon, spend 2 charges, you may make a bonus attack with this weapon against the same target.

What I find wrong with it is that it's too consistent. 2-dice shots aren't too bad in 2e, if you've got volume of fire. Turrets typically do, since their wide arcs mean high time-on-target.

I mean, maybe it can be printed and cost like 18 points (4 for the base turret, 14 for Bistan's text), but I'd rather not.

22 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

• Turret:
  • Blaster Turret: I think @Magnus Grendel is right that it'd need to do something very different, but I don't have a good sense on what that could be.

I did come up with a Blaster Turret design idea I like.

3-dice, Range 1-2. 3 charges recurring. Attack [Focus]: Spend 3 charges from this weapon to perform this attack. Grants Rotate -> Red Focus (the upgrade would require Focus action).

So a hard-hitting turret, not too hard to fire, but it has to recharge and can only be used once every 3 turns. Could probably be decently cheap. I figure the Synced Turret I suggested above would have to cost like 8 points or so. This thing could maybe come in at 4-5?

18 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

So a hard-hitting turret, not too hard to fire, but it has to recharge and can only be used once every 3 turns

Recharging weapons are a cool idea. You have to watch out, though, because they can lead to two things that are bad:

1. Alpha strikes. If the weapon only needs to be fired once (I'm thinking of the mythical b-wing super-cannon, not your blaster turret particularly) then it doesn't matter that it has a limited duty cycle because it obliterates the opponent and you don't need to use it again.
2. Hit and Run. We've already seen that a naturally recharging resource (force) tends to lead to a hit-n-run playstyle as aces leave to recharge then come back at full strength

I do like the idea of a recharging turret though, it sounds fun.

On 10/16/2019 at 10:10 AM, TasteTheRainbow said:

I really want autoblaster back to make the VCX functional again. I’d make it a 1-dice, range 1 attack with 2 recurring charges that let you either add one die(to a max of 2) or add one range.

hits may not be cancelled by evade results, crits before hits same as 1e

I 100% disagree. Nothing was worse in 1E than facing these things with other mods to increase the odds of, or even guarantee, hit results.

5 hours ago, gadwag said:

Recharging weapons are a cool idea. You have to watch out, though, because they can lead to two things that are bad:

1. Alpha strikes. If the weapon only needs to be fired once (I'm thinking of the mythical b-wing super-cannon, not your blaster turret particularly) then it doesn't matter that it has a limited duty cycle because it obliterates the opponent and you don't need to use it again.
2. Hit and Run. We've already seen that a naturally recharging resource (force) tends to lead to a hit-n-run playstyle as aces leave to recharge then come back at full strength

I do like the idea of a recharging turret though, it sounds fun.

I get what you're saying. 3-dice rechargeable weapons are pretty minor in effect. But taken to an extreme, an over-powered weapon with recurring charges to limit it's use can be problematic.

My personal belief about a B-Wing Composite Beam Laser is that it ought to be an Epic-only upgrade (and those exist now, with that little diamond-icon). The point of it should be to punch a big hole in a Huge ship for a suitably high cost.

On 10/16/2019 at 3:35 PM, AceDogbert said:

I could see Hotshot Blaster working. Make it a one-charge card, make it unable to fire out the forward arc, and make the attack unable to be modified, and I'd argue it can be a fairly cheap 'surprise' against being outflanked without having to bother with arc indicators.

I dont think it should be Un-modded.

Range 1-2 from side arcs or range 1 out of arc with 1 charge. 2 dice. 5 points, spend charge when activated to make a bonus attack.