I'm not talking about the Nantex.

But I thought that 2.0 was going to reduce the potential of "You can't do anything I deal you an auto-damage" situations.

Welp. I guess I was wrong. And apparently have been wrong from the get-go:

Trandoshan Slaver (54)
Feedback Array (4)
Static Discharge Vanes (8)
Total: 66

66 points. You can fit three of these in a list. But what happens when a small ship bumps from the front? Absolutely nothing they can do. They have to sit there and take a damage and an ion every turn while you just burn your health down one at a time. And it's not even trivial to avoid for a casual player, especially if you fly your ships in a block.

In my case, I had two of these with a generic Lancer with Zuckuss (I'd never flown any of them before and just thought it would make an interesting game). My father in law was not pleased. Actually he's pretty disillusioned with 2.0 in general now; I'd finally got him to buy in by telling him they really went a long way toward getting rid of NPE stuff.

I guess I made a false promise.

It wasn't like I did it intentionally. I didn't realize quite how powerless it actually leaves you. I was just trying to make the YV workable by using its biggest disadvantage against my opponent. But it's utterly nasty. And very un-fun. It made me feel gross. Of course I won't use it again, but it's so strange that this kind of thing is still possible. Is it good? I have no idea. The very cheap costs of scum large-base generics makes me feel like it could be.

I don't know. I'm just a little disappointed.

Sounds like a great deal of scummy beef.lol

Sounds like a Trip-Ups again.

What are most lists gonna do against three IonSlavers?

Try to get behind them or past them, I guess.

Definitely not a dogfight...

More like a slog. Potentially in need of a one-point bump on the generic...

____

If you're not prepared to adjust to a weird matchup like this, I can definitely see how it could scare off a newbie who has some preconceived notions of "how the game is played".

Not that you were wrong to "get his hopes up", but there are a LOT of different ships and strategies in this game - it's part of the beauty of it - and its definitely not for everyone.

Hope your relative doesn't stay too upset and you get to game it with him again soon.

11 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Sounds like a Trip-Ups again.

Not even close.

42 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

But what happens when a small ship bumps from the front?

Why did he put himself in this situation? Were you not clear about the interaction of Feedback+Static?

If you really wanted to pile on with the Scum jank, add 4-LOM to fill the 2 unused points with triple Slavers. Now you can ionize at range 1 instead of range 0, and all you need is something to shoot at!

But yeah, to my knowledge the FA+SDV brand of Scum jank doesn't work competitively, this feels like a list that might work on newer players but will have a hard time with anybody that knows what it wants to do and avoids it, which is kind of easy considering FA requires Range 0.

1 minute ago, Enigami said:

If you really wanted to pile on with the Scum jank, add 4-LOM to fill the 2 unused points with triple Slavers. Now you can ionize at range 1 instead of range 0, and all you need is something to shoot at!

Feedback + Static can pass an Ion token at range 1. The Ion recipient just doesn't get damaged from Feedback as well (the Feedback Array carrier still does though).

Oh... some reason I thought you HAD to have a ship to collide with to trigger Feedback Array, didn't realize you could just zap yourself and get the ion at any time. Still, 4-LOM does give you the option to both shoot AND ionize without taking damage, so still worth 2 points if you're going for triple Feedback Slavers anyway.

6 minutes ago, Enigami said:

Oh... some reason I thought you HAD to have a ship to collide with to trigger Feedback Array, didn't realize you could just zap yourself and get the ion at any time. Still, 4-LOM does give you the option to both shoot AND ionize without taking damage, so still worth 2 points if you're going for triple Feedback Slavers anyway.

what which 4Lom?

Just now, Blail Blerg said:

what which 4Lom?

Crew, obviously. How would you fit G1-A 4-LOM in with triple Slavers (outside of Epic)?

7 minutes ago, Enigami said:

Oh... some reason I thought you HAD to have a ship to collide with to trigger Feedback Array, didn't realize you could just zap yourself and get the ion at any time. Still, 4-LOM does give you the option to both shoot AND ionize without taking damage, so still worth 2 points if you're going for triple Feedback Slavers anyway.

Having face 4-L0M+Static on Nym yesterday I can concur it isn't a bad combo on larger ships.

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

what which 4Lom?

20 minutes ago, Enigami said:

If you really wanted to pile on with the Scum jank, add 4-LOM to fill the 2 unused points with triple Slavers. Now you can ionize at range 1 instead of range 0, and all you need is something to shoot at!

I actually had, but I never used him so didn't think it was much worth mentioning. Also had the title on Shadow Caster.

55 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Why did he put himself in this situation? Were you not clear about the interaction of Feedback+Static?

I was, but neither of us realized how punishing it actually was.

Actually he had k-turned past the YV, but my Lancer came in clutch with a 5-straight and blocked him into the YV. So yeah.

1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

Hope your relative doesn't stay too upset and you get to game it with him again soon.

We're planning on a game again this week, but it was a good 2 weeks that he wasn't really interested.

I'm mostly just bummed because it was un-fun and took a little bit of the shine off 2.0 for both of us. 😕

4 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I was, but neither of us realized how punishing it actually was.

Actually he had k-turned past the YV, but my Lancer came in clutch with a 5-straight and blocked him into the YV. So yeah.

You blocked him into a trap, that required a fair bit of set up, with good flying and it's NPE? FML!

Honestly getting ioned* off the board is harder to prevent and more likely to be pulled off.

5 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Honestly getting Jones off the board is harder to prevent and more likely to be pulled off.

Phone fingers for "Ioned"?

51 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

How in flobbing hael does this let you attack and feedback array. wdf.

see below

54 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

7 minutes ago, Enigami said:

Oh... some reason I thought you HAD to have a ship to collide with to trigger Feedback Array, didn't realize you could just zap yourself and get the ion at any time. Still, 4-LOM does give you the option to both shoot AND ionize without taking damage, so still worth 2 points if you're going for triple Feedback Slavers anyway.

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

Feedback + Static can pass an Ion token at range 1. The Ion recipient just doesn't get damaged from Feedback as well (the Feedback Array carrier still does though).

Pretty much, yes. Except nobody gets damaged. From Rules Ref p. 2 > Abilities > Replacement Effects:

" When a replacement effect resolves, the replaced effect is treated as having not occurred."

So the "if you do..." conditional of Feedback Array does not trigger. You gain 1 disarm and 1 stress and pass an ion. No damage for anyone.

23 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

How in flobbing hael does this let you attack and feedback array. wdf.

see below

It doesn't. Both 4-LOM and Feedback Array can pair with Static discharge vanes to toss an Ion token onto a target. 4-LOM locks out a green token type for the cost of 2 Ion tokens. One of those can be transferred to another ship for the cost of a stress token via Static. It is an either use Feedback Array at range 0 or use 4-LOM against a target at range 1 decision.

9 minutes ago, matt.sucharski said:

Pretty much, yes. Except nobody gets damaged. From Rules Ref p. 2 > Abilities > Replacement Effects:

" When a replacement effect resolves, the replaced effect is treated as having not occurred."

So the "if you do..." conditional of Feedback Array does not trigger. You gain 1 disarm and 1 stress and pass an ion. No damage for anyone.

It does now. I think you're referencing the old RR. Current version is v105.

Just now, Hiemfire said:

It does now. I think you're referencing the old RR. Current version is v105.

Aha! Mobile phone pdf confusion. Thanks!

1 minute ago, matt.sucharski said:

Aha! Mobile phone pdf confusion. Thanks!

You're welcome. Current Paying Costs section from Abilities:

"Paying Costs

A ship can pay a cost for an effect only if the effect can be resolved.

For example, GNK "Gonk" Droid's ability says "Action: Spend 1 to recover 1 shield." The ship cannot spend the charge if it has no inactive shields.

Replacement effects can replace a cost that a ship would pay for an effect. If a cost is replaced in this way, the effect is still resolved. "

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

You blocked him into a trap, that required a fair bit of set up, with good flying and it's NPE? FML!

It's NPE after the initial block. Making a mistake like that shouldn't dumpster your entire ship...

I mean, he definitely doesn't want to hear "No I actually few really well get gud."

😛

Making a mistake will absolutely dumpster a ship like Soontir!

Anyway, it's not nor. It would be if the entire squad were a single small ship... hopefully not the case

There's a VERY simple solution of just burning the slavers. This is not terribly difficult given their clunkiness and even reinforce only goes so far

Basically, first Ed nym this certainly is not. It's like comparing not even a kitten, but a drawing of a kitten, to a real live and real angry tiger.

(For comparison's sake, Mr Fac is a house cat)

3 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

It's NPE after the initial block. Making a mistake like that shouldn't dumpster your entire ship...

I mean, he definitely doesn't want to hear "No I actually few really well get gud."

😛

🤨 Better to discuss what the tells are and how to avoid it that way you both improve. As for a single mistake dumpstering an entire ship... Iirc that is one of the core's of high init gameplay.