A user pointed out something interesting. I'd assumed that BB-8 's barrel roll and boost (resistance transport pod) are both red because it doesn't specify the boost as white (so red should cover both). But Autothrusters is specific with its wording.

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Ehhh i think its a white boost. Look at the ability autothrusters.. It specifically says "after you perform an action, you may perform a RED barrell roll or RED boost action." Putting in extra detail that BOTH have to be red. This just says "you may perform a red barrell roll or boost action." So yea its a white boost, otherwise it would have explicitly said Red boost, or its a typo on the card.

It's probably a typo, but it does get its foot in the door for a white boost interpretation. That'll be a headache to TO...

Ow...

That... is definitely a legal loophole...

I would argue that RAI would make both actions red... but RAW does certainly seem to be Red Roll, White Boost.

never mind, i'm dumb. still going to call it red though.

Gut says its poor formatting on the part of FFG, but as written I can see the argument for it being a White Boost

By this logic though, you're separating the barrel roll from being an action at all.

Which is obviously nonsense, because a red non-action barrel roll is not a thing.

They're both red. It could be clearer, but, at the same time, don't reach like this when things are more than clear enough.

20 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Ow...

I took 12 sanity damage when I read it. I'm getting dangerously low here...

I don't know if anyone is keeping up a list of wording issues they'd like FFG to address... Last time I read a thread about that, it devolved into people arguing over extremely munchkiny interpretations, so not much came of it and the thread eventually got buried (and I think that was back in 1.0 anyway). But I've been considering starting up and maintaining a list on the wiki. Recently Snap Shot created some rules questions (e.g. jedi boosting into/out of range to), and a few issues have been with us almost since 2.0 released, though I can never remember them on the spot.

If I were to make a list on the wiki, I'd keep discussion here on the FFG forums so we don't go crazy on the wiki trying to manage it all (I try to limit the wiki to earnest questions, and shove the munchkins here; that keeps our activity feed manageable so real questions don't get buried in sophistic munchkin speeches and flame wars). I could even lock the page if people kept editing it to add their pet issues that no one else thinks are issues. Or, to keep the fight far away from the wiki, I'd be open to maintaining a thread here where I updated the first post. And try to keep my sanity as people fought ever harder to get me to acknowledge their pet wording issue that I don't think is real... hah ha... hahahaha....

Anyway... Something I've been loosely pondering.

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

By this logic though, you're separating the barrel roll from being an action at all.

Which is obviously nonsense, because a red non-action barrel roll is not a thing.

They're both red. It could be clearer, but, at the same time, don't reach like this when things are more than clear enough.

This makes sense. I knew something was missing from the argument and that seems to be it. If you want to separate it, you have to be able to handle all the implications, not pick & choose. Both are red and there's no argument left.

Thanks!

10 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

By this logic though, you're separating the barrel roll from being an action at all.

Which is obviously nonsense, because a red non-action barrel roll is not a thing.

They're both red. It could be clearer, but, at the same time, don't reach like this when things are more than clear enough.

But are they clear? Look at the aforementioned Autothrusters example ( Soontir Fel linked below for reference). In this case, the relevant actions are each called out by color ( red roll or red boost action). Similarly, look at the RZ-2 A-Wing ability, Refined Gyrostabilizers ( red boost or red rotate action). Again, both actions are separately called out by colors.

I agree that both of BB-8's actions are intended to be red, but this appears to be a technical writing error, that has created a legal loophole in the game.

1 minute ago, emeraldbeacon said:

But are they clear? Look at the aforementioned Autothrusters example ( Soontir Fel linked below for reference). In this case, the relevant actions are each called out by color (red roll or red boost action). Similarly, look at the RZ-2 A-Wing ability, Refined Gyrostabilizers (red boost or red rotate action). Again, both actions are separately called out by colors.

I agree that both of BB-8's actions are intended to be red, but this appears to be a technical writing error, that has created a legal loophole in the game.

Yes. They're either both red, or one of them is a red non-action which is not a thing.

Could be clearer, not actually ambiguous.

Whilst I'm usually the first to pick on genuinely bad wording, this isn't that. This is looking for trouble

PLease stop looking for trouble, we have enough trouble as it is without looking for it.

9 minutes ago, Wazat said:

I took 12 sanity damage when I read it.

What is sanity and where do I get some?

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

Yes. They're either both red, or one of them is a red non-action which is not a thing.

I'd argue that, for Autothrusters and Refined Gyrostabilizers to work, it's established that "action" applies to both the first and second actions provided. I'd also argue that the colors of each of those actions is clearly marked on the card (red barrel roll, red boost, red rotate arc).

For BB-8, the same is equally true. Red barrel roll, or boost (which per game rules is defined as white, since it is not marked as such). Unless Autothrusters or Refined Gyrostabilizers don't work, they are clearly both actions.

4 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Whilst I'm usually the first to pick on genuinely bad wording, this isn't that. This is looking for trouble

PLease stop looking for trouble, we have enough trouble as it is without looking for it.

Looking for trouble is how we identify problems before they show up at big events and people logjam the game during actual play time, trying to argue for a case that's unreasonable. Looking for trouble is trying to break the game in theory space, rather than in the middle of an event. This appears to be a clear oversight/error in writing... but it is still a problem, as multiple people are clearly interpreting it differently. The whole point of this page is to come to a consensus on what the card ACTUALLY says and ACTUALLY means.

8 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

What is sanity and where do I get some?

You started the game with it, and there's limited ways to restore it once lost. I think most people just run it into the ground, then roll a new character.

9 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

I'd argue that, for Autothrusters and Refined Gyrostabilizers to work, it's established that "action" applies to both the first and second actions provided. I'd also argue that the colors of each of those actions is clearly marked on the card (red barrel roll, red boost, red rotate arc).

For BB-8, the same is equally true. Red barrel roll, or boost (which per game rules is defined as white, since it is not marked as such). Unless Autothrusters or Refined Gyrostabilizers don't work, they are clearly both actions.

Looking for trouble is how we identify problems before they show up at big events and people logjam the game during actual play time, trying to argue for a case that's unreasonable. Looking for trouble is trying to break the game in theory space, rather than in the middle of an event. This appears to be a clear oversight/error in writing... but it is still a problem, as multiple people are clearly interpreting it differently. The whole point of this page is to come to a consensus on what the card ACTUALLY says and ACTUALLY means.

I completely agree with you in this whole forum. I was actually the one who originally asked the question to Wazat on Fandom. The way that it is currently written, i would absolutely believe that it is a red barrel roll and a white boost just because of how autothrusters and refined gyrostabilizers are worded. The wording in abilities in this game is VERY important and people are going to read it quite literally (like us), especially when other cards have different text formatting that are "supposed" to mean the same thing. Honestly, it WAS probably intended to both be red, but the way it is currently written, as you said, is in fact a legal loop hole and that boost is for sure white.

41 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

By this logic though, you're separating the barrel roll from being an action at all.

Which is obviously nonsense, because a red non-action barrel roll is not a thing.

They're both red. It could be clearer, but, at the same time, don't reach like this when things are more than clear enough.

This logic doesnt make sense. The "red barrell roll" doesnt get cut off from the rest of the wording making it a non-action, its obviously still an action.... Think of it this way, "you may perform a (red barrell action) or (boost action). Likewise autothrusters would be this "you may perform a (red barrell action) or (red boost action)". The color is the only thing that is defining the action, the actual word "action" applies to both of them even though it only follows the "boost" text.

If the barrel roll doesn't get cut off from the action, why does the boost get cut off from the red?

8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

If the barrel roll doesn't get cut off from the action, why does the boost get cut off from the red?

Because it was never connected in the first place. Cross reference Autothrusters and Refined Gyrostabilizers, above.

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

If the barrel roll doesn't get cut off from the action, why does the boost get cut off from the red?

Autothrusters: After you perform an action, you may perform a red Barrel Roll or red Boost action.

Refined Gyrostabilizers: You can rotate your Turret Arc indicator only to your Front Arc or Rear Arc. After you perform an action, you may perform a red Boost or red Rotate action.

BB-8: During the System Phase, you may perform a red Barrel Roll or (no color stated) Boost action.

From the second Question in the thread at the top of this subforum:

Q: If the difficulty of an action is not stated (such as Lando Calrissian [Rebel, Crew]’s unique action or the coordinate action “Vizier” [TIE Reaper] can perform as part of its pilot ability), what is the difficulty of that action?

A: White. However, note that if a ship is instructed to perform an action “on its action bar” this way, it uses the difficulty of the action on its action bar.

As written, referencing both Autothrusters and Refined Gyrostabalizers which both state the difficulty of the actions immediately preceding them and taking that Official Ruling into account the Boost action outlined is white.

Direct link to the Ruling:

31 minutes ago, Wazat said:

You started the game with it, and there's limited ways to restore it once lost. I think most people just run it into the ground, then roll a new character.

Yeah, it's a non-recurring charge.

12 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Autothrusters: After you perform an action, you may perform a red Barrel Roll or red Boost action.

Refined Gyrostabilizers: You can rotate your Turret Arc indicator only to your Front Arc or Rear Arc. After you perform an action, you may perform a red Boost or red Rotate action.

BB-8: During the System Phase, you may perform a red Barrel Roll or (no color stated) Boost action.

From the second Question in the thread at the top of this subforum:

Q: If the difficulty of an action is not stated (such as Lando Calrissian [Rebel, Crew]’s unique action or the coordinate action “Vizier” [TIE Reaper] can perform as part of its pilot ability), what is the difficulty of that action?

A: White. However, note that if a ship is instructed to perform an action “on its action bar” this way, it uses the difficulty of the action on its action bar.

As written, referencing both Autothrusters and Refined Gyrostabalizers which both state the difficulty of the actions immediately preceding them and taking that Official Ruling into account the Boost action outlined is white.

Direct link to the Ruling:

This is a perfect explanation!

I... Oho, wow. Yeah, going off of Autothrusters... Yeperooine.

That's a white barrel roll.

Haha, oh boy... BB-8 just became valid until they fix this.

34 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I... Oho, wow. Yeah, going off of Autothrusters... Yeperooine.

That's a white barrel roll.

Haha, oh boy... BB-8 just became valid until they fix this.

boost*, barrell roll is still red haha

With Finn already being identified as something that ended up not as intended, and now this, i completely feel like the transport pod release was rushed by FFG hahaha

I'd still stay it's a red boost, and I think that's also RAW.

The difference between the two sides aren't a difference between RAW and RAI . It's a question of how we read written language. It's common enough to use a single adjective to apply to two conjoined items.

Folks can make a choice to interpret this as red roll, white boost. I think that requires a lot more work than treating the adjective as applying to the entire statement. I reject absolutely the argument that folks "don't have a choice" in how to rule on BB-8.

I wish the eye roll reaction was available.... 🙄 🙄 🙄

FFG really needs to tighten up their technical writing. However, I feel that this is reaching hard to bypass the intent of the developers.

Looking back on the announcement article, the language is exactly the same, "BB-8 can take the Transport Pod in some surprising new directions if he chooses to perform a red barrel roll or boost action during the System Phase". That's it, no further comment. No reference to BB-8 being able to do a red non-action barrel roll (as that is what logically must occur to argue the next part) or to perform a white boost action. Now, FFG love to show off when a ship or pilot can do something patently ridiculous, so why didn't they mention it here?

Do we have any proven examples from FFG where the difficulty stated like this only applies to the first listed action?