14 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I’m not arguing for some alternative default bomber build. I’m arguing, as I ALWAYS do, for diversity.

There should never be a go-to build.

Also, you’re just plain wrong that Missiles are in a decent place. They’re never, ever used except with either Jendon or Passive Sensors. The occasional Grand Inquisitor or Torrent will attempt them, but those lists don’t do as well anyway, and another 2 points of bid wouldn’t push them into OP territory.

Ion and Clusters are all but trash. Homing is very situational. Concussion is good but way too expensive for how hard it is to pull off. Fix those and the bomber (and aggressor and Z-95 and Scyk and Punisher and named torrents and kimogila and RZ-1) is in a good place again.

Bump for support. Yup.

==

Ion 3pt

Cluster 2 or 3

Homing 3

Concussion 5 (These seem ok at 6 too) (I think Concs are ok at 5-6pt, they're not bad)

Diamond no opinion

Proton Rockets 6

Barrage Rockets stay at 8

--

APT 5

Ion torpedoes 5

Plasma 7

Proton torpedoes stay at 13

---

This assumes no ordnance buff card comes out.

Passive Sensors 5

--

Seismic 2

Bomblet stay at 5

Proton 4

Conner Net 4

Prox Mine 5

Electro-Proton no opinion

--

Dorsal Turret 4

Ion Cannon Turret 6

Consider dropping the base cost of Ys down 1.

Tie Bombers need to go down by 1 also likely.

9 hours ago, Test Pilot said:

If something like Tracers ever gets a 2.0 release I think we'll see low I bombers and missile/torp carriers back in full swing. Until then I fully agree with this.

My own personal suggestion for XX-23 S-Thread Tracers: mostly the same as 1e, but only the attacker and one other ship at Range 0-1 get the bonus lock. Having some access to gaining locks seems fine. Lighting up a whole squad is risky.

5 hours ago, gadwag said:

Jendon

Jendon + Bombers don't really let you get to a critical mass, however.

With Jendon, you'll only be able to afford 3 Proton Torpedo Bombers. I've flown enough triple E-Wing to know that simply having 3 low Init Torpedoes with long-range Locks isn't enough. It's not bad, I think it's a list you can play and enjoy your afternoon, but it's not enough. You could go with 1 Proton, 1 Plasma, 1 DBM, 1 Conc. Maybe 4 attacks is enough.

If a 1-point S-Thread Tracers existed, you could run 5 total bombers, 1 DBM, 2 Plasma, 2 Proton. Now that's a critical mass of Ordnance that might be viable.

On 10/7/2019 at 4:47 PM, Blail Blerg said:

Proton Rockets 7->5? I think these would be fun to see on As and Zs in mass.

I'm running 5 RZ1's with Prockets and Crackshot. it's deadly. gone 7-1 with it during testing so far. not only is it a blast, but it's surprisingly competitive. only match I lost was against a Vader/Whisper/Soontir matchup, where I couldn't bait him to engage where I wanted him too.

Prockets *and* crack shot? Are you finding yourself able to line up bullseye twice with your ships with relative ease? I would think it'd be very difficult to use both against higher initiative ships. Although I guess it does leave you free to spend your focus on defense and still have a way to push some damage through.

9 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ion 3pt

Cluster 2 or 3

Homing 3

Concussion 5 (These seem ok at 6 too) (I think Concs are ok at 5-6pt, they're not bad)

Diamond no opinion

Proton Rockets 6

Barrage Rockets stay at 8

Pretty much on board, except I'd say Ions are definitely not worth more than 2. If you think about it, the only ones that want it are:

• 2-primary ships that struggle to get a lock anyway. If you survive the first pass tokenless, then congrats! You get to deal one damage.

• Aces who want a very situational control ability with range bonus denial

• PS or FCS platforms that just want something cheap to spam (at least it isn't potent)

In any case, Ion Cannon is so much better that it's ridiculous, and it sees nearly no play at 5 points. This is not only much harder to set up, but it also only works 3 times total. The fringe cases where you'll be able to use it put it on par with something like Predator. I mean, sure, 3 points for now and we might see it occasionally. I still doubt it's worth it though.

Clusters I agree, but the situational double-tap might be worth closer to 3. Homing is very good at hitting aces, so maybe 4 is warranted.

Concussions might be worth 5 but definitely not 6. It's currently 6 and it's only used with Jendon and PS (which are both probably getting bumped a couple of points). Really, I think 4 might be fine, but at least 5 would probably be usable.

Proton is mostly fine. I wouldn't mind 6 but I don't want it stepping on Concussion's toes, and it can be scary when spammed. Barrage definitely doesn't need a buff.

3 hours ago, Maui. said:

Prockets *and* crack shot? Are you finding yourself able to line up bullseye twice with your ships with relative ease? I would think it'd be very difficult to use both against higher initiative ships.

I was going to ask the same questions.

Although for only five points, you might as well throw them in the build.

29 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Pretty much on board, except I'd say Ions are definitely not worth more than 2. If you think about it, the only ones that want it are:

• 2-primary ships that struggle to get a lock anyway. If you survive the first pass tokenless, then congrats! You get to deal one damage.

• Aces who want a very situational control ability with range bonus denial

• PS or FCS platforms that just want something cheap to spam (at least it isn't potent)

In any case, Ion Cannon is so much better that it's ridiculous, and it sees nearly no play at 5 points. This is not only much harder to set up, but it also only works 3 times total. The fringe cases where you'll be able to use it put it on par with something like Predator. I mean, sure, 3 points for now and we might see it occasionally. I still doubt it's worth it though.

Clusters I agree, but the situational double-tap might be worth closer to 3. Homing is very good at hitting aces, so maybe 4 is warranted.

Concussions might be worth 5 but definitely not 6. It's currently 6 and it's only used with Jendon and PS (which are both probably getting bumped a couple of points). Really, I think 4 might be fine, but at least 5 would probably be usable.

Proton is mostly fine. I wouldn't mind 6 but I don't want it stepping on Concussion's toes, and it can be scary when spammed. Barrage definitely doesn't need a buff.

I would put ion missiles at 2 but they’re strictly a better attack at r3 with TL caveat. Also not sure if we really should be pushing inconsequential ionization for cheap.

Concussions went on my raider. It hurt things. Don’t underestimate the dark side of the ordnance.

Thread tracers would be interesting. I should note that they'd also be useful in Epic if the 1.0 version transitioned relatively unchanged. That's potentially a lot of free locks from one ally shooting before the swarm. That would enable some very angry hornet swarms to kill important targets with ease, e.g. the huge ship.

While I'd like missiles to be more viable, I'm not fully sold on the alpha-strike lists reaching critical mass, for two reasons. First, it's not delightful to get one important ship totally wiped because you couldn't avoid the torpedo arcs; that tends to make certain list types totally nonviable (ones that cannot avoid being pinned, e.g. lambdas, auzitucks, b-wings, etc), so you're shifting location of the meta to create different winners and losers, not widening it to make more things viable. Strong alpha lists displace a lot, and make ace lists even more dominant since they're one of the select builds that can naturally deal with the strategy.

Second, it tends to lead to a very simple playstyle for the alpha striker and the target: alpha striker is trying to force a decisive round, and the target's only option is to try to avoid that. Like aura swarms but with way more punch. Though I suspect we'd encounter more interesting playstyles if alpha strikes came back into their own for a while, and people on both the giving and receiving end had some time to experiment with approach and strategy.

All the same, I have too many memories of times when munitions ruled as gods. Harpoon Gunboats and 2E Proton Swarms were not fun. So that's something to keep in mind -- FFG is cagey about munitions for a reason. If they make them viable for single ships, they become great for swarms. If they nerf the cost to keep munition swarms from their nova alpha blast, they hurt any other ships that would like to have a missile. IMO, it kinda seems like missiles & torps need some other limiting factor in how many can be deployed. I don't know a good way to do that at this time.

Also, when discussing munition costs, I like to look back and see what they used to cost and why they went up. I'm curious if things have changed enough in the meta that these discounts wouldn't resurrect old villains. Like, TIE Bombers were a big deal for a while; would returning to that be okay now with new meta changes, or would we just pendulum back to what we were previously trying to avoid?

On 12/2/2019 at 8:29 AM, Wiredin said:

I'm running 5 RZ1's with Prockets and Crackshot. it's deadly. gone 7-1 with it during testing so far. not only is it a blast, but it's surprisingly competitive. only match I lost was against a Vader/Whisper/Soontir matchup, where I couldn't bait him to engage where I wanted him too.

IMO Prockets and Crack Shot are not necessarily a bad combo. Crack covers when prockets don't work, triggering both at range 3 and when you fail to get your focus. Though for the cost, Marksmanship is also a viable option since prockets tend to blow past shields. Or you could drop two talents to upgrade one ship to Arvel, who gets great use out of crack shot or prockets (he stings hard in bullseye all all ranges, including 0).

But if you drop to Phoenix then you have some spare points. How about:

• 5x Phoenix with Intimidation + Prockets

or even...

• Arvel + Intimidation + Crack + Prockets (who is unfortunately the wrong init for the rest of the team)
• 2x Phoenix with Intimidation + Proton Rockets
• 1x Phoenix with Crack and Prockets
• 1x Phoenix with Prockets

My favorite trickery with getting a procket or other bullseye effect off is setting up bumps, and intimidation makes those bumps bad for the foe even if you flub lining up the bullseye. With the right approach, sometimes you can **** an ace with whatever maneuver they choose (though it's obviously way harder in practice; this is just the goal). My favorite is to park so that if they stop short, I and allies have a bullseye on them while they're trapped between obstacles/allies and unable to boost/roll away. Or they bump and an ally has a bullseye while I intimidate them. Or they speed past me and grant a bullseye to someone else while missing the shot. With 5 ships, your bullseye web covers a lot of their options.

The really mobile ships like Jedi and Imp Aces are really hard to pin down though. Extremely hard. I got discouraged and stopped bothering with these types of fleets after a while.

Regarding diamond missiles, I like them... They're tough to use and you'll usually only get one try with their bonus blast, but they're fun when they work. They could stand to drop a point or so.

But the electro-proton bomb? No good right now because all its costs and limitations combine to nonsense. Only one can be equipped, and it's explicitly only one use, and it takes 2 turns to go off, all for 14 points and also taking your mod slot. I've seen them used in silly jank fleets and nowhere else. Swarms don't care much, as even if they're in the blast, they'll be fine: they tend to lack shields anyway, damage is rare, a one-time ion is survivable and they have a turn to prepare where they'll be ioned, and a rare one-time disarm is fine too. Other ships might care more, but a non-swarm target has an easier time just avoiding the blast. The commitment of so much to the trick just isn't worth it, you usually can't capitalize on it. I see potential, but it's just too expensive for how hard it is to use.

The thing is, if it were cheaper (say, 6 - 8 points with other bombs dropping a bit too), I wonder if we'd be happy about that, or if we'd resent the results. Put it on a Y-Wing etc, k-turn toward the joust-hungry enemy, and drop it. Let them either plow in or veer away to dodge it, trying to get the best work out of either result. I dunno... seems like it might suck for a lot of fleets if this was cheap & easy to do.

If Nym were used more, maybe he'd like it even at current costs. He can let the timer tick down, and then keep it alive until he deigns it timely to blow. That makes a large area of the map dangerous for a long time, especially against ace lists that have only the 3 ships. I suspect Nym is why the bomb costs so much.

IMO bomblets and inertial dampeners shouldn't spend shields. You should be able to simply damage yourself; shields disappear by the time you'd need to spend them on this anyway. As written, bomblets steal two slots (also making them work on only a rare few ships) and cost as many points as proton bombs, which have far more reliable damage. They can't even be equipped on an Epic ship (no two-payload epics), which you'd think would want them since it can afford the shield.

I always create a tight rock formation and bait the engagement to happen in the rocks and cover all the lanes with prockets so they either bump or they cannot reposition due to obstacles. works well. I like the marksmanship idea!

Turbolaser Battery 15->9. 😃

3 hours ago, Wazat said:

Crack covers when prockets don't work, triggering working at both range 3 and when you fail to get your focus.

Just a slight, but important, fix for clarity sake. The original wording had me thinking you believed that you could use Crack Shot on your special attack with Prockets in addition to the hole it fills, which made my head hurt taking into account the wonderful resource you (and your crew of volunteers) maintain for the community.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Turbolaser Battery 15->9. 😃

Why? Turbolaser Battery is a 3 die with the potential to dish out 6 + damage ( the "+" is including crit chaining, 6 damage is the result of the defender rolling blanks against 3 hits) in one shot. Any ship that can carry it also has access to means within its faction that permit either the acquisition of range 4+ target locks (Jendon, Boosted Scanners, Dutch Vander, or DRK-1 probes droids for example) or to lean on Locks from other ships (Targeting Synchronizer via the Tech slot on a squad mate with the Lock action) to use it. Heck, Bombardment Experts allow it to be used at range 2 for fairly cheap.

2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Why? Turbolaser Battery is a 3 die with the potential to dish out 6 + damage ( the "+" is including crit chaining, 6 damage is the result of the defender rolling blanks against 3 hits) in one shot. Any ship that can carry it also has access to means within its faction that permit either the acquisition of range 4+ target locks (Jendon, Boosted Scanners, Dutch Vander, or DRK-1 probes droids for example) or to lean on Locks from other ships (Targeting Synchronizer via the Tech slot on a squad mate with the Lock action) to use it. Heck, Bombardment Experts allow it to be used at range 2 for fairly cheap.

Have you actually tried it? The costs are not worth it. I’ve tried it twice

8 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Have you actually tried it? The costs are not worth it. I’ve tried it twice

What size games and mat did you try it on? In smaller games (200-300 point range) and ones on a 3x3 mat I can see it not being that useful. In larger games on a 6x3 though it should make a decent long range weapon as long as your not trying to focus on removing aces with it.

7 hours ago, Wazat said:

While I'd like missiles to be more viable, I'm not fully sold on the alpha-strike lists reaching critical mass, for two reasons. First, it's not delightful to get one important ship totally wiped because you couldn't avoid the torpedo arcs; that tends to make certain list types totally nonviable (ones that cannot avoid being pinned, e.g. lambdas, auzitucks, b-wings, etc), so you're shifting location of the meta to create different winners and losers, not widening it to make more things viable. Strong alpha lists displace a lot, and make ace lists even more dominant since they're one of the select builds that can naturally deal with the strategy.

Second, it tends to lead to a very simple playstyle for the alpha striker and the target: alpha striker is trying to force a decisive round, and the target's only option is to try to avoid that. Like aura swarms but with way more punch. Though I suspect we'd encounter more interesting playstyles if alpha strikes came back into their own for a while, and people on both the giving and receiving end had some time to experiment with approach and strategy.

Reducing missile costs wouldn't do much to affect Alpha Strike lists IMO. Passive Sensors and Jendon are probably getting nerfed anyway, and the Proton Torpedo shouldn't be getting any cuts.

I think of missiles as more of a "Beta Strike" tactic: you're basically gambling that you'll have enough stuff left after the first pass that the 3-dice attacks will be worth it. Currently it's a horrible bet because you can't fit enough stuff to make it worth it in the first place, and the points lost when your 2 Z-95s with concussions pop is just painful. But making those hard-to-get locks actually pay off would be something else altogether. If you think about it, locks are expensive. Either you're paying:

• The cost for high initiative

• The cost and Sensor slot for Passive Sensors (which has generally proven too cheap, so it's being used a lot right now)

• The cost and one of your ships for Jendon (or Dutch, or something similar)

• A combo of high initiative and targeting synchronizer or synchronized console (and forfeiting the reroll)

• The force and your force talent slot for instinctive aim (and forfeiting the reroll)

• The damage you take on the first pass to get a lock that you won't use until the second pass

As a side note, I think it'd be pretty cool if these costs came out to be pretty similar, more or less. Regardless, all those costs are leveraged much better by torpedoes, ATC, or simply 3-dice primaries, so missiles are almost strictly reserved for platforms that can't carry torpedoes (obvious exceptions being double-slot and separatist missiles, which don't need a buff). The cost of a lock and the situational nature of a 3-die attack by themselves are mostly enough to keep missiles from being OP. Their cost puts them pretty far away from viable unless combined with items that are generally acknowledged to be pretty far on the cheap side anyway (inquisitors, Jendon, PS TIE/sfs, etc.), which are generally the only places we're seeing them used well.

So in general, yes, I agree that Alpha strikes shouldn't be that dominant. Jendon and PS should go up a bit, and Jonus, barrage, Protons, etc. should stay expensive. But I'd like to see B eta strikes as a viable tactic for all those other missile platforms, and for the occasional ace who wants a fun trick to pull.

As an example, price these things right for Kylo Ren and the rest pretty much falls in place. Does he maybe want to deny a R3 bonus and some splash expose? Sure, that'd be cool, but would he pay six points for it? Not in a million years. Does he want the option to ionize someone that he's managed to lock? Maybe, but would he pay four points for it? Nah bro. Sure the 2-die primaries inherently get more out of them, but they're generally in a worse place to start out with, and they'll have more trouble paying for themselves anyway. And if missiles did turn out to be too effective in that case (which I doubt quite a bit), then maybe the missile slot could affect the cost of the chassis? I mean, pretty much every other slot in the game affects the price of the chassis. That wouldn't make missiles the exception, but the norm. I'd rather see the missile slot be worth something than never used.

7 hours ago, Wazat said:

5x Phoenix with Intimidation + Prockets

Just had to chime in and say I love this idea. Intimidation Phoenix is one of my go-tos for rebels and a vastly underestimated blocker (most people think you need Arvel; you don't). Prockets are also way better than people give credit for. I'll have to borrow two more RZ-1s and give this a spin.

7 hours ago, Wazat said:

Also, when discussing munition costs, I like to look back and see what they used to cost and why they went up. I'm curious if things have changed enough in the meta that these discounts wouldn't resurrect old villains. Like, TIE Bombers were a big deal for a while; would returning to that be okay now with new meta changes, or would we just pendulum back to what we were previously trying to avoid?

Homing Missiles were pretty powerful in the 1st wave when everyone was still trying to figure out what was good. I forget what they cost then but I think it was 3 points. But at the time, Supernatural Reflexes was a flat 12 points, Protorps cost 8, and Juke cost 4, Whisper always carried Vader, and Redline was King. We also saw Boba/Han/Marauder/PerCop at something like 85 points (if I remember correctly) and the meta was dominated by a few very powerful combos like those. Barrage Jonus swarms were also pretty abusive before they nerfed Barrage, Jonus, and the TIE Bomber in general.

Looking at Meta Wing from release to the first points update, I see Missiles used in lists that abuse stuff that has since been nerfed. For example, there's a list of six Z-95s with missiles and Swarm Tactics that would fire them all off at Cracken's I5 (with both double-taps and splash damage if you can get R2 perfectly). Someone made a cut at a store tournament with that, which mostly means nothing because no one really knew how to play 2.0 yet anyway. Actually I have no idea how they did so well since you don't get the locks until the second pass, and by then you've surely lost Cracken... ? What we see much more of is quite a lot of use on Punishers, which were very, very cheap at launch. Actually, as I continue looking, clusters and concussions were pretty much only taken on Punishers through Wave I. The Z-95 list I cited is the only exception that made a cut. There's plenty of attempts here with other Zs, Kylo, and a premonition of "Five Finger Death Punch," but their performance is very mixed. That more or less confirms my suspicion that these missiles' cost is not generally the broken part of most combos that use them, and it wasn't even back when they were quite cheap.

For Homing Missiles, which was the most-nerfed missile, use is much more varied and interesting (which is awesome!) but I see only two lists that made a cut at a significant event. One had Homing and APTs on Rhymer and Protorps on Redline, with Whisper/Vader to fill it out (basically a variation on the top meta list at the time), the other used Jendon to get Rexler the lock. There's more stuff here though; A-Wings, TIE Bombers, Defenders, K-Wings, TIE/x1s, Special Forces TIEs, Kihraxz Fighters, etc. Was it abusive? I don't really know, but there's not much evidence that it was on its own merits. Still, 3 points is pretty cheap. Then again, bumping it all the way to 5 clearly all but killed it, and the basic missiles haven't gotten much of a looking-at since then. I was pretty sad they didn't get buffed in July. Here's hoping they get more love next time around. Even just one point off each of the main 4 would bring out some really interesting new possibilities.

7 hours ago, Wazat said:

No good right now because all its costs and limitations combine to nonsense.

Another silly aside, but whenever they do Hera's B-Wing Superlaser I want it to be something similar; incredibly potent (full 6 dice, hits to crits, etc), but very very difficult to land effectively (bullseye, target lock, spend charges and the lock, take ion tokens, etc.). Reward skill rather than variance. But of course my thoughts on this matter are already well-documented elsewhere.

7 hours ago, Wazat said:

IMO bomblets and inertial dampeners shouldn't spend shields.

Bomblet is just weird. At least Miranda has regen and Nym can take an R2, but it's still weird. I definitely agree that ID needs an errata. It's kind of dumb because it's busted with reliable regen and worthless without.

Re: Bomblet I think it would be fine (if a bit fringe) if it were cheaper, maybe 2-3 points. The cost of trajsim and of all bombs but Prox. Mines makes them pretty much a non-factor in the current competitive scene, which makes me sad. I want my 6 bombers to get back into the fray again!

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Have you actually tried it? The costs are not worth it. I’ve tried it twice

Agreed. 3 energy is just a bit too much.

2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

What size games and mat did you try it on? In smaller games (200-300 point range) and ones on a 3x3 mat I can see it not being that useful. In larger games on a 6x3 though it should make a decent long range weapon as long as your not trying to focus on removing aces with it.

If you're not removing aces with it, then it's not paying for its 10 points plus 3 energy per shot. Targeting Battery goes out to R5 and is just as likely to hit. It also lets you launch ordnance into the defender for a sweet followup double-tap whether the first attack hits or not. On a CR90 I can see the case for turbolasers, but in general they're only really worth it against large and huge ships, and large ships typically struggle in epic for other reasons anyway. Even Ion seems preferable to me and it's incredibly affordable. Take this with a grain of salt though; my experience with huge ships is quite limited.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Have you actually tried it? The costs are not worth it. I’ve tried it twice

I have played against it twice and I can tell you, turbolaser was a huge-ship-eating monster. Anything low-agility was getting hit by it, since it was always a double-modded doomsday shot that would deal 4, 5, 6 damage with ease against the poor sucker in its range. Bombardment Experts indeed allow reducing that range to 2 for close-range nuking, and combined with shots from the primary or other hardpoints etc, it added quite a lot of damage.

Any tantive or raider carrying it is going to eat other huge ships for breakfast. It won't hit aces (or rather, will very rarely do so), but there's usually tasty agility 0 or 1 targets on the table, begging to be nuked.

IMO it's too energy-intensive for the lighter huge ships (c-roc, transport, and gozanti can end up energy starved trying to feed it, and they often prefer more supportive roles), but the big boys use it very well.

2 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

If you're not removing aces with it, then it's not paying for its 10 points plus 3 energy per shot.

Then you're really going to hate it when you actually look at its cost... Turbolaser isn't 10pts, Point Defense Battery is. Turbolaser is 15pts and worth every point if you use it how it is meant to be used.

3 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

but in general they're only really worth it against large and huge ships, and large ships typically struggle in epic for other reasons anyway.

Oh, hey!!! FFG trying to do something thematically accurate with a weapon system, getting it right and people call it worthless. How novel... 😒

11 minutes ago, Wazat said:

IMO it's too energy-intensive for the lighter huge ships (c-roc, transport, and gozanti can end up energy starved trying to feed it, and they often prefer more supportive roles), but the big boys use it very well.

When it is the only platform your faction has capable of taking it (I.E. S&V, Seps and Resistance), the C-ROC or GR-75 can pull it off.

IMO the turbolaser is my favorite weapon in Epic just because it operates perfectly for how it's meant to work. Terrible against sparrows, amazing against turtles. It has shredded me severely each time I fought it, because my opponent used it well, removing my huge ship quickly and then focusing on wings second. It was terrifying and delightful to watch.

Point Defense is cool for the opposite reason: also pretty energy-hungry, but it's great against the ships that dodge single shots easily, simply because it fires repeatedly to exhaust tokens and play the numbers game. And you pay as deeply as you feel you need, making one shot at a time.

I can tell you one thing does real work against aces and swarms in Epic: bombs. Looking forward, I'm going to make sure I always have a couple of bombers on my team because they really restrain how the opponent can approach and fly, and punish him if he doesn't veer away as expected. And that veering does mean things to wings, since they'll typically be dumping their edges onto obstacles or into the firing line or death path of a huge ship. In one of my games, the two cheap ships with bombs were more effective than the rest of my fleet simply because the opponent couldn't always avoid them fully, or avoid them without other major problems. Proton bombs are a delight, and I regretted not bringing seismic too.

.

On 12/2/2019 at 3:24 PM, gadwag said:

Bombers with proximity mines are pretty good. Maybe not S-tier but definitely viable

Following up my statement with maths from SOTL: http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2019/12/rule-32-enjoy-little-things.html

The UK System Open (usually the largest event globally in the X-Wing calendar, with last year pushing past 650 players) is going to be 1-2 weeks after the January points changes, which is going to make for an excitingly unpredictable meta!

11 hours ago, Jarval said:

The UK System Open (usually the largest event globally in the X-Wing calendar, with last year pushing past 650 players) is going to be 1-2 weeks after the January points changes, which is going to make for an excitingly unpredictable meta!

And it will be hyperspace format, which could look totally different next year

16 hours ago, Jarval said:

The UK System Open (usually the largest event globally in the X-Wing calendar, with last year pushing past 650 players) is going to be 1-2 weeks after the January points changes, which is going to make for an excitingly unpredictable meta!

I thought the devs said it would be on current points. Not sure where I read that; I could be wrong.

4 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I thought the devs said it would be on current points. Not sure where I read that; I could be wrong.

The ever helpful Alex Watkins has just put an update about this on the UK X-Wing group:

Quote

Hi Guys. Lots of people asking and commenting on points.

There will be a points update in January. This will affect the Hyperspace Game Mode, and it will happen earlier in January then previously announced. There will also be a live stream about this from FFG Live.

We would not allow a points update to drop too close to an event like this, especially as there is a Grand Championships in the US in late January.

I am working with the game developers on this and also on an article from me about OP for X-Wing in 2020. I am looking forward to this a fair bit

So sounds like we're looking at early January for the points update!