What's the overall feel?

I do think we're definitely on the right track. Its not "great" right now, but its heavens better than it was before, and better than the previous iteration of the game. A solid 8/10 or 9/10.

On generics: FFG has decided not to go the "audacious" route and make things like 33x6 Interceptors a thing. Along with the nerf to Rebel Beef at I4 12 red dice, this gives us an idea of where FFG believes 200 points should be in terms of raw firepower. basically: not audacious

Some upgrades I think could be a bit more balanced based on Init. I made an argument act things like Perceptive Copilot should be exceptionally carefully and probably overcosted: These are the types of raw value upgrades that make 2 ship combos and turret wings and shrugging off multiple attacks too easy. Another thing I would caution FFG to do less of is combo-Magic-the-gathering style cards where card combos and list building hugely increases the options and powers of a squad. Holdo is a cool card, but ... really really dangerous for the health of the game.

On 10/12/2019 at 1:29 AM, Blail Blerg said:

The seeming uselessness of I3 and I4 still bothers me. The question that haunts and haunts.

Wish this mechanic had more nuance to provide more interest to the skill gap.

*cough* Regen

*splutter* Scum

*mumble* Imp aces still exactly the same

MG star fortress base cost down 4. Cobalt 56->52
Cat 53
Vennie 54
I don't think this needs to be 51. Generally that suggests it actually should be 50 or less, but devs don't want 4x spam. I don't think 4x Cobalts seem right.

Res YT1300 - I've heard this could come down just a few points. Not too many, as its close to being bonkers turret play already, but a few points would help this ship see more play. I don't have enough play with these, so feel free to add your table opinion.
Three of the naked generics don't look broken to me.
Res Symp 67->64?
Chewie 68->66
Han 71->68
Rey 73->70
Edit: After seeing the ResFalcon in play a few times I do think that Rey should go down 3 points. I suspect Han and ResSymp are also good at -3. No info on Chewie. Looks solid.

Tie Aggressor - Am I a joke to you?
Base down 2 points, form 28->26? With ICT would be 33->31?

Tie Defenders base down 2 points 69->67?

Tie Adv generic, idk, but 38 don't look enticing. Suggest 36 on these.

Decimator - generic down 1 point from 68->67?

Quadhumper 32->30

Fang Fighter Zealous 44->41?
Skull 50->47?

Kimogila 43->41?

Apparently people really are worried about Sinker swarm...
but Blue I3 Torrent from 28->27?

N1s, the named ones are really weird.
Pretty sure the Handmaidens are way overpriced, along with Padme
Ric arguably is probably undercosted by 1-2 points.

Jedi Knight 38->36? I don't see these used at all. Also I think some of the force upgrades like Battle Meds could start lower.
Barriss 39->37
Rest I don't have enough play to tell, but I will say atm that I6 I5 still rules vs I4 and I3.
No play exp with Luminary Arcs.
... Anakin might still need an increase 62->64
(see upgrades about R2 astro)

Republic Y 33->31. Its really not any better than a Rebel Y. This one DEFINITELY.

All Ewing's down -2. I still don't see use for Gavin or Corran at -2. In fact, I'd suggest Gavin 61->57.

No cohesive opinion on Seps right now.
Though I don't see generic bellyrubs.
Petranaki + Ensnare actually seems to be about right currently. Tho I wish the rules were less confusing.

----

Upgrades:

Proton Rockets 7->5? I think these would be fun to see on As and Zs in mass.

R2 astro up 2 points.

13 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Republic Y 33->31. Its really not any better than a Rebel Y.

🤨 "free" actionless R5 style card flip until you get hit with 2 crits in a single attack while being able to ignore an additional crit before the ability has to take over, even with that dial, isn't worth 2 over the Rebel Y-Wing? Riiiight….

+ straight up nukes

+

and they both cost exactly the same...

Gray Squadron Bomber (31)
R5 Astromech (4)
Total: 35

Red Squadron Bomber (33)
R4 Astromech (2)
Total: 35

Just now, Hiemfire said:

🤨 "free" actionless R5 style card flip until you get hit with 2 crits in a single attack while being able to ignore an additional crit before the ability has to take over, even with that dial, isn't worth 2 over the Rebel Y-Wing? Riiiight….

+ straight up nukes

+

and they both cost exactly the same..

Yeah, but the opportunity cost of always having to use that Green-move astro.

Second, you're not likely to want to have either of these configs. You're more likely to run generic + Dorsal or ICT, maybe with VTG.

Also, since a lot of crits happen after that timing window, its kinda... eh...?

Its a sad ability imo. Poorly timed.

2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Tie Aggressor - Am I a joke to you?
Base down 2 points, form 28->26? With ICT would be 33->31?

Tie Defenders base down 2 points 69->67?

Tie Adv generic, idk, but 38 don't look enticing.

Fang Fighter Zealous 44->41?
Skull 50->47?

Imo.

Yes to the Aggressor. Kestal is possibly fine, but to get the most from her, you need a lot of additional investment. I think the ship needs a Sensor slot. I's never going to be in the right place for points unless it's absurdly cheap, where spam may break it. Needs something extra .

Defenders are fine. Just prone to certain things.

If 5 x1s with Passive Sensors is ok, then sure. I'm not positive it is.

Zealous Recruits are ok, they're worth 44. It's more a problem of being too good to be the sub-faction filler it actually wants to be.

Skulls will be good at 48. 47 gets 4 Fearless, or a silly bid. Probably fine but possibly borderline ridiculous when the dice are as good as the dials. 3 with Old T might be nice. Drop 2 off Kad and 4 off Joy while you're at it, FFG.

3 with Ion Torp Joy, hmmm.

1 minute ago, Cuz05 said:

Imo.

Yes to the Aggressor. Kestal is possibly fine, but to get the most from her, you need a lot of additional investment. I think the ship needs a Sensor slot. I's never going to be in the right place for points unless it's absurdly cheap, where spam may break it. Needs something extra .

Defenders are fine. Just prone to certain things.

If 5 x1s with Passive Sensors is ok, then sure. I'm not positive it is.

Zealous Recruits are ok, they're worth 44. It's more a problem of being too good to be the sub-faction filler it actually wants to be.

Skulls will be good at 48. 47 gets 4 Fearless, or a silly bid. Probably fine but possibly borderline ridiculous when the dice are as good as the dials. 3 with Old T might be nice. Drop 2 off Kad and 4 off Joy while you're at it, FFG.

3 with Ion Torp Joy, hmmm.

Just remember that other than Rebel Beef I4 jousting (with an I6 or I5 Luke in there to boost the Init power), most I4 lists are kinda eh.

The one that really did break things was 4 Phantoms...

4 Petranaki really isn't that great.

4 Skulls is really not great either. They kinda die off fast when played wrong. But maybe you're right, 48 then sounds more cautious.

Esp sadly vs I6 I5, I4 is pretty worthless. I really wish they had made this mechanic more interesting during the reboot.

Force up up up

i6 mostly up up

Ensnare up up

u wings up

scum generics down down

many large bases down

Large bases and Agility 1 ships are kind of overcosted right now.

God, the poor TIE Aggressor... No joke, that's the ship that makes me want to fly Imperial... But why in Odin's name would I EVER want to fly it at the config it's at rn?

11 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Large bases and Agility 1 ships are kind of overcosted right now.

God, the poor TIE Aggressor... No joke, that's the ship that makes me want to fly Imperial... But why in Odin's name would I EVER want to fly it at the config it's at rn?

You like those small base turrets eh?

I feel like these need something else to go for them. Like 3 green dice or something. (Lol. Not super serious)

Just now, Blail Blerg said:

You like those small base turrets eh?

I feel like these need something else to go for them. Like 3 green dice or something. (Lol. Not super serious)

I do. The reason is kinda' silly, but TIE Aggressors somewhat mirror Strike Fighters in the stuff I write- which are typically equipped with a turret that a weapons officer controls, while the pilot just, y'know. Flies. But some Strike Fighters have coaxial weapons, so Strikes can UUUUSUALLY attack on multiple vectors.

Interceptors are basically BSG Vipers.

Bombers are replaced by what we'd consider large base vessels called, "Lancers". Extra long range, capital-caliber mounted gunships that are turreted and typically require escort, but can get past the angled shields of larger ships, attacking sensitive hardpoints.

There's much more to it, but that's the simple.

Aggressors fit into it.

2 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Large bases and Agility 1 ships are kind of overcosted right now.

God, the poor TIE Aggressor... No joke, that's the ship that makes me want to fly Imperial... But why in Odin's name would I EVER want to fly it at the config it's at rn?

Hello, TLT. Missed you!

(Hey, if they brought back Snap Shot and Autoblasters... 😜 )

Of course it’s gonna be adapted to 2.0.

Twin Laser Turret

Range 2-3; 2 Attack; Double Arc Bow-Tie

Adds Rotate Action

”Attack: If this attack misses, you may perform a bonus attack from a <turret> arc you have not attacked from already.”

😝 😝

7 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Just remember that other than Rebel Beef I4 jousting (with an I6 or I5 Luke in there to boost the Init power), most I4 lists are kinda eh.

The one that really did break things was 4 Phantoms...

4 Petranaki really isn't that great.

4 Skulls is really not great either. They kinda die off fast when played wrong. But maybe you're right, 48 then sounds more cautious.

Esp sadly vs I6 I5, I4 is pretty worthless. I really wish they had made this mechanic more interesting during the reboot.

The Fang is a different beast though. I've flown Fenn plus 3x I1 a bit. Fenn adds an awful lot to the list but it's very black and white. 4x Skull is not great atm, but is not actually bad. It does just becomes pointless against I5/6, whereas Fenn is still Fenn.

Give the alternative a bit more pizzazz, spread a little goodness across all 4 and I think it's got legs.

5 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

The Fang is a different beast though. I've flown Fenn plus 3x I1 a bit. Fenn adds an awful lot to the list but it's very black and white. 4x Skull is not great atm, but is not actually bad. It does just becomes pointless against I5/6, whereas Fenn is still Fenn.

Give the alternative a bit more pizzazz, spread a little goodness across all 4 and I think it's got legs.

... i think we're saying the same thing? the i4s could use some love?

I’d like to see the generic Gunboat cost come down, Duchess go up, vultures and Torrents up slightly - they’re so efficient right now that they price TIEs out of the swarm game!

I’d like to see some bomb options come down in price to scale back the swarms a bit too.

Scum named z-95s need to come down, I’d very much like to see some of the points changes on the scum HWKs reversed as the meta is a very different beast these days and I no longer think Palob needs the punishment.

Vessery needs to come down in points.

Think that’s about the extent of my laundry list.

I have a hard time believing the i1s are good at 44pts. I haven't flown it, but I've seen enough of i1 Ints and stuff to not want to try it.

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

... i think we're saying the same thing? the i4s could use some love?

The same, just a marginally different degree

Just now, Estarriol said:

I’d like to see the generic Gunboat cost come down, Duchess go up, vultures and Torrents up slightly - they’re so efficient right now that they price TIEs out of the swarm game!

I’d like to see some bomb options come down in price to scale back the swarms a bit too.

Scum named z-95s need to come down, I’d very much like to see some of the points changes on the scum HWKs reversed as the meta is a very different beast these days and I no longer think Palob needs the punishment.

Vessery needs to come down in points.

Think that’s about the extent of my laundry list.

Err. I doubt Vultures and torrents need to go up... Especially without sinker.

Scum Zs yeah, 23.

Ties... hmm. I think they should just be cheaper. Game has kinda power crept them. And the i4s are honestly meh, esp vs I5 and I6.

Generic down to 22, Howlie up to 42-44? (idk really), the named pilots all down say 2 points.

Yeah. The HWK can come back, its had enough time in time out.

1 minute ago, Cuz05 said:

The same, just a marginally different degree

honestly idk what you said and what the diff is

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

I have a hard time believing the i1s are good at 44pts. I haven't flown it, but I've seen enough of i1 Ints and stuff to not want to try it.

I've had them do way more than 44pt worth of work, (in various lists), and they rarely do less. It's not terribly easy, but they are great

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

honestly idk what you said and what the diff is

That 47 is maybe too much love.

But 48 is probably right, rather than cautious

1 minute ago, Cuz05 said:

I've had them do way more than 44pt worth of work, (in various lists), and they rarely do less. It's not terribly easy, but they are great

well... if you say so...

26 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Err. I doubt Vultures and torrents need to go up... Especially without sinker.

Scum Zs yeah, 23.

Ties... hmm. I think they should just be cheaper. Game has kinda power crept them. And the i4s are honestly meh, esp vs I5 and I6.

Generic down to 22, Howlie up to 42-44? (idk really), the named pilots all down say 2 points.

Yeah. The HWK can come back, its had enough time in time out.

You see, I’d say TIEs are priced right, so adjust things to meet them. Not the other way around.

Vultures will go up now that separatist have more ships.

and i play seps

2 hours ago, Estarriol said:

You see, I’d say TIEs are priced right, so adjust things to meet them. Not the other way around.

id say everything would have to be adjusted. Especially ALL the I5 I6 stuff.

I'd argue its faster to do it the other way around.

Personally, I would have done it your way too. Use Ties and Zs as a benchmark, but we know that isn't the case right now. Current balance seems to use no "true ground", and is simply a completely relational model.