This lowly ensign would appreciate the comments from the various admirals on the forum in comparing a couple of lists.

The first list I posted a while ago, and have played 7 games with it, winning 5 (friendly local games only).

The second list came about following chatting to my son (19) who had attended his very first competition on 5/10 (he came 8 ^th out of 17, 9-2 loss, 10-1 win and an 8-3 loss. Despite the losses he was very happy as he felt the games he lost could have gone either way)

I feel the first is much more offensively built, whereas the second is a bit more defensive/tanky.

My son doesn’t mind going first or second with his list (also six activations including Strategic Advisor) but I feel going first is the key to this one with Demolisher. But would the tankier builds on the GSDs make up for going second as it has no bid?

I do like the alterations my son suggested, but look forward to reading your views.

List 1 (The Original)

Up close & Personal (0/388/400)

================================

Kuat Refit (112 + 53: 165)

+ Admiral Screed (26)

+ Strategic Adviser (4)

+ Gunnery Team (7)

+ Electronic Countermeasures (7)

+ Leading Shots (4)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56 + 34: 90)

+ Intel Officer (7)

+ Ordnance Experts (4)

+ Engine Techs (8)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

+ Demolisher (10)

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56 + 27: 83)

+ Intel Officer (7)

+ Ordnance Experts (4)

+ Engine Techs (8)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

+ Insidious (3)

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 2: 25)

+ Comms Net (2)

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 2: 25)

+ Comms Net (2)

Contested Outpost

Solar Corona

Most Wanted

List 2 (New Version – Improved?)

Up Close & Personal v2 (0/400/400)

===================================

Kuat Refit (112 + 67: 179)

+ Grand Admiral Thrawn (32)

+ Strategic Adviser (4)

+ Gunnery Team (7)

+ Hardened Bulkheads (5)

+ Electronic Countermeasures (7)

+ Leading Shots (4)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

+ Relentless (3)

(Thrawn will likely give 2 concentrate fire dials and an engineering one)

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56 + 32: 88)

+ Captain Brunson (5)

+ Ordnance Experts (4)

+ Engine Techs (8)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

+ Demolisher (10)

(Brunson does Brunson things)

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56 + 25: 81)

+ Admiral Montferrat (5)

+ Ordnance Experts (4)

+ Engine Techs (8)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

+ Insidious (3)

(All ships need to go fast, and I try to get Insidious into the rear arcs of ships. Montferrat means any attacks against it are obstructed while at Speed 3 so takes advantage of the intended play style of the list)

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 4: 27)

+ Hondo Ohnaka (2)

+ Comms Net (2)

(Hondo just uses two points get extra tokens when needed – Risk is that I give a squadron token to a squadron heavy list. I could drop him but manoeuvre or engineering could be very useful at certain times, particularly with Engine Techs).

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 + 2: 25)

+ Comms Net (2)

Most Wanted

Contested Outpost

Solar Corona

PS I’m going to playtest the second list a few times to get a feel for it, but comments welcomed.

Thanks

To be honest the only thing I question is the gunnery teams on the Kuat. With Screed I can kinda see an argument. But Thrawn, maybe I'm overly cautious but OE would be my first pick. Even with screed I'd go for IHE, ACM and fire control teams to possibly get the double splash before gunnery teams.

Also I like the idea of a ton of Intel Officers, but that's just me.

@Grathew I did ponder along time over Ord Experts and Gunnery Teams. I just felt the ability to use the front arc again, albeit against a different target was too good. Also, just because I have it, doesn't I have to use it - If I have a double arc it would likely make more sense to use that rather than shoot a different target.

Again ACM or my choice of APT was something I thought about. In the end I felt the damage getting under the shields immediately was good. Points was also a consideration!

The Intel officers have worked well previously, and dropping them is a concern for me. The flip side is that the GSDs have become a bit harder to hit thanks to Brunson on Demo and Montferrat on Insidious (which usually goes Speed 3 to get round a flank)

Sorry, I don't recognise IHE as an acronym.

4 hours ago, RedDogReb said:

@Grathew I did ponder along time over Ord Experts and Gunnery Teams. I just felt the ability to use the front arc again, albeit against a different target was too good. Also, just because I have it, doesn't I have to use it - If I have a double arc it would likely make more sense to use that rather than shoot a different target.

[...]

Sorry, I don't recognise IHE as an acronym.

I have to agree with him on the Gunnery Team; you have the activations to move last and snag multiple targets, but you don’t have the bid to take advantage of it before one leaves. This isn’t to say you’ll never get use, but a good opponent who bid anything won’t give it to you.

He means HIE, Heavy Ion Emplacements. It’s a good build (if a little unreliable) right up until you run into an SSD and get hard-countered. An SSD (specifically Ravager) also gives this list trouble; it can get first easily, deny APT, and kill Gladiators out the sides. Even after Brunson or Monty some builds can throw 9 dice that way before HIEs. I recommend swapping Gunnery Team to the Darth Vader boarding team to kill DCO and drop it fast. It’s a tremendously useful card in all kinds of matchups, chopping up ECM, Intel Officer, that Hammerhead’s External Racks, whatever the situation demands.

Then dropping Relentless (you have 2 dials and 3 commands you want to throw, a shorter stack isn’t necessary) and Hardened Bulkheads (fine, but first player is better) gives the list a 12 point bid, which is key for close range aggression.

Good luck with it, looks fun!

@The Jabbawookie thanks. Never used DV before, but given how I use this fleet, getting to close range to use him fits nicely.

A couple of guys at my club have SSDs (no idea what builds they use) so using Darth could be a nasty surprise.

You've confirmed what I was thinking about being first player, especially with this short ranged fleet. As I mentioned my son is happy with either first or second, and has been trying to convince me that second is fine as activation advantage can be used to set up traps for oppo to fly into. True to a degree, but I guess and experienced opponent wouldn't fall for the traps, especially as this is a short ranged armed fleet! Added to this I am far from skilful when it comes to flying the ships, which means it would / could be quite easy for any trap to be dealt with.

Relentless is a bit of a crutch for me to be honest. Dropping it is a good thing.

I guess 2 x Intel Officer or Brunson / Monti is down to personal taste. The latter giving a bigger bid.

Re HIEs - D'oh - My bad. Brain fart not realising it was HIE. @Grathew - apologies!

If you are bringing gladiators I can echo that the DV boarding team is definitely a great call. A friend of mine won a tournament with a similar list with the Darth vader boarding party on the kuat (since as mentioned here there's not a "must take" offensive Retrofit or gunnery team on the kuat.)

Leaving v2 the way it is but removing gunnery, hardened, and relentless for darth vader gives you a great bid and a good fleet. I think it's a solid place to play! You might even consider dropping insidious as it's always only questionably useful.

@BrobaFett thanks. I’ve swapped in DV and am looking forward to flying it.

TBH Hardened Bulkheads was just a filler and now dropped along with Relentless.

I like Insidious. It regularly gives my oppo a very big and nasty surprise. If the deployment or game play means I don’t get that rear shot, 3 points in not an issue.