Just an idea, and probably not even a good one…

I've been playing a fair bit of Edge of the Empire/Any FFG Star Wars rpg (FaD and AoR) with my kids and we've had lots of fun. Sometimes we use IA figures... but then I just end up wishing we were playing a new IA campaign... So I was thinking of tweaking/complicating IA and simplifying EotE to meet in the middle and coming up with a simple RPG version of IA. We love making our own characters and it would be fun to do it with IA. Also, sometimes it would be fun to keep developing the characters beyond max XP that is given in a campaign. We’d also like more RPG type rolls, like rolling to sneak into a building, or rolling to coerce someone to do what you want, or rolling to hack a terminal or something. We’d like to keep the combat stuff from IA (more or less) but add a bit more on the roll playing side. Here are some ideas:

MORE STATS: I'm thinking you'd have to add more than just Strength (the fist thing), intellect?/mechanics? (the wrench) and perception (the eyeball). Speed sort of both cover agility but not sure what else could or would need to be added. We’d steer clear of Knowledge checks and Lore and try to only have stats for the most commonly used rolls.

SPENDING XP: I guess with XP you could buy abilities similar to the ones the current IA characters have or upgrade the dice you roll for strength/perception/mechanics checks. I suppose you could buy basic improvements with XP like +1 damage or +1 evade etc. but there would have to be a cap on it, like max plus 1 or something (You wouldn’t want a character with inherent +4 damage running around… you’d hardly even need to roll!)

PROFESSIONS/TRAITS: Maybe there would be some simple professions to choose from like Spy (this would enable you to get Mak type cards) or Brawler (this would enable you to get Biv or Garkhaan type xp cards...). Not sure about this. EotE has pretty cool profession trees. Maybe we could come up with a simple tree of things to spend XP on corresponding to some traits.

DICE: I really like how EotE uses the dice to drive not just success or failure but also advantage and disadvantage. Typically in IA for RPG type rolls it is just a target number of surges to see if the door is opened or the Toydarian is scared (in the app) or if there is success at whatever. Usually damage is ignored. BUT, perhaps the dice could be used in a similar way to EotE dice with damage being success and surges being advantage. Then the defense dice would be used depending on the difficulty of the task (blocks being failures and evades being disadvantages). I know the dice weren’t designed this way so probably it wouldn’t work… just an idea.

Also, you could spend XP to upgrade (color of dice your character rolls on Stealth checks or whatever) or increase number of dice rolled.

Anyway, this probably ends up making IA too complicated (and worse) and EotE to simple (and worse) so it likely won’t work, but wanted to hear if anyone had similar thoughts of bringing in more RPG aspects and Character design into IA…

Tried it. Even if you succeed, it's still not as fun as whatever idea you've got in your head, or the vanilla version of either EotE or IA.

The idea to spend XP to upgrade dice is especially seductive, but trust me, the amount of XP you'd need to spend to make an upgrade feel rewarding (spending 1XP to change a blue die to a green die just doesn't feel worth it) would wreck the in-game economy. Spending XP on even the lamest abilities feels better. Always.

If you are dead set on this, and since you are playing with your kids, I'd recommend either stripping out the rules from EotE (it's always easier to ignore rules than it is to add new mechanics without testing), or buying the 30th anniversary edition of the West End Star Wars RPG that FFG put out. It's a very easy system to pick up and play, and would satisfy 3 of your 4 ideas.

10 hours ago, Pollux85 said:

(it's always easier to ignore rules than it is to add new mechanics without testing

Absolutely. The more I think about it, the more complicated it gets. I guess we can always keep playing EotE but doing it on IA boards with IA pieces to help visualize.

Maybe I'll just try to put some of my own campaigns together for IA instead of messing with rules...

The one thing that would be really fun though is having a way of building your own IA characters (like the way you build FFG RPG characters. Have a limited amount of points to spend for building up some stats... Have a limited amount of dice to distribute for stats... and then like 20 or so generic XP cards to choose from (like 5x 1XP cards, 5x 2XP cards and so on...)

Good reply though. Two separate (and both fun) games that can't really be meshed together.

On 10/7/2019 at 10:08 PM, Mandelore of the Rings said:

Absolutely. The more I think about it, the more complicated it gets. I guess we can always keep playing EotE but doing it on IA boards with IA pieces to help visualize.

Maybe I'll just try to put some of my own campaigns together for IA instead of messing with rules...

The one thing that would be really fun though is having a way of building your own IA characters (like the way you build FFG RPG characters. Have a limited amount of points to spend for building up some stats... Have a limited amount of dice to distribute for stats... and then like 20 or so generic XP cards to choose from (like 5x 1XP cards, 5x 2XP cards and so on...)

Good reply though. Two separate (and both fun) games that can't really be meshed together.

I like the idea of building your own IA heroes, and I like building campaigns. To me, the IA system is very RPG. It isn't SOOO RPG that GM at hoc adjudication of player idea is necessary, so there are limits to what you can accomplish, but with the three attribute rolls that are available, you can add more tests to your campaign. I loved how the app has in between missions that are just attribute roles. I used to play Shadows of Brimstone, and I like that each player has 6 attributes instead of 3, which gave you more variety for non-combat interactions.

Anyway it would be difficult, using IAs rules to have a set of points or dice to build a character. The game just isn't set up like that. Still, all the heroes that currently exist are more or less templates for different character types. One could take much of what is already there and craft a character using Bitterman's tools. You just have to make sure that the XP abilities are equal to their XP cost, and not over powering. I've personally been working on a system that combines some of IA and some of Doom to make a campaign based squad combat game like IA. When you make a character you choose a primary and secondary ability from a list of cards for each type. Then you can choose a weapon based on your primarily specialty, and the attack dice are based on that. Defense is a static number, and then like you were saying, you distribute a number of dice into their test attributes.

Rika's on the general path. Best approach for creating new characters is direct comparisons to existing content.

Personally, having a few more attributes would be cool ... but there's a couple minor hurdles to math out ...
- figuring out what the formula is for the existing dice pools on attributes
- deciding what these new attributes would be (diplomacy's an obvious one, not sure about others, tho)
- working in these attributes to the existing content, or your own campaigns

If you played Descent 2e, the travel cards in that system may also be something to reference.

3 hours ago, thinkbomb said:

Rika's on the general path. Best approach for creating new characters is direct comparisons to existing content.

Personally, having a few more attributes would be cool ... but there's a couple minor hurdles to math out ...
- figuring out what the formula is for the existing dice pools on attributes
- deciding what these new attributes would be (diplomacy's an obvious one, not sure about others, tho)
- working in these attributes to the existing content, or your own campaigns

If you played Descent 2e, the travel cards in that system may also be something to reference.

Thank you. This is a good tool for figuring out dice probability for attacks and surges for successes. http://mattyellen.github.io/imperial-assault-calculator/ If it were me, I would add Luck and Agility. Diplomacy could be met through insight, but it all depends on what you want to achieve.

52 minutes ago, Rikalonius said:

Thank you. This is a good tool for figuring out dice probability for attacks and surges for successes. http://mattyellen.github.io/imperial-assault-calculator/ If it were me, I would add Luck and Agility. Diplomacy could be met through insight, but it all depends on what you want to achieve.

my intent with diplomacy was people skills. Loku could retain his expert perception, and still be outclassed at Murne in negotiations.

Old Ben would slap you for suggesting luck by an attribute in Imperial Assault, though. 😜

3 minutes ago, thinkbomb said:

my intent with diplomacy was people skills. Loku could retain his expert perception, and still be outclassed at Murne in negotiations.

Old Ben would slap you for suggesting luck by an attribute in Imperial Assault, though. 😜

That wizard's just a crazy old man.

Im trying some ideas in the hubworld section of my new campaign. im going to use a skirmish mat, at the rebel upgrade stage. I will set out merchants for their weapon purchases, and some NPCs for side mission selection. i was thinking about using some of the edge of empire dice system, but still keeping it within some of the rules of Imperial assault

roleplay dice ideas

Surges = successes

Damage = advantage

Blocks = disadvantage

Evade = minus success

Super Dodge = auto disadvantage.

the heroes can disscuss how they preform tasks, and they can use their skill dice for the task, and you as the GM can add advantage or disadvantage dies were applicable.

eg. Mak could stealth steal some supply cards from a vendor. insight check (blue, Green) but the player says that they have the stealth suit reward. the GM adds yellow dice to the pool. the vendor is on his alert, so the GM adds one black dice to the roll

Mak Rolls 2 successes and 3 damage, also on the black dice reveals one block.

the result is two successes and two advantage, since one advantage is blocked.

for roleplaying, you could make each card worth a certain threshold so maybe in this example, each card requires 1 success and 1 advantage. so the hero could draw two supply cards. or you can roleplay something completely different

i have a list of different encounters for the Hub world. if anyone is interested to know more, they can DM me.

All these ideas sound pretty good. One of the big stat problems is that the only thing that matters for attacking is your weapon. In EotE it makes the characters Agility and Brawn relevant to attacking but in IA whoever uses whatever weapon always gets that set of dice... So, Murne wielding a vibro-axe would do the same damage as Jyn wielding it or even Gaarkhan. Kinda silly. In the same way, Gaarkhan shouldn't be as good at wielding some sniper rifle either... So I think that's something that would need to be modified. Ideally you'd want the least amount of generic stats possible though, to keep it simple. You don't need another EotE or another IA, but something with the best bits of both...

The Hub world sounds pretty good!

4 hours ago, Mandelore of the Rings said:

All these ideas sound pretty good. One of the big stat problems is that the only thing that matters for attacking is your weapon. In EotE it makes the characters Agility and Brawn relevant to attacking but in IA whoever uses whatever weapon always gets that set of dice... So, Murne wielding a vibro-axe would do the same damage as Jyn wielding it or even Gaarkhan. Kinda silly. In the same way, Gaarkhan shouldn't be as good at wielding some sniper rifle either... So I think that's something that would need to be modified. Ideally you'd want the least amount of generic stats possible though, to keep it simple. You don't need another EotE or another IA, but something with the best bits of both...

The Hub world sounds pretty good!

maybe assign a skill value to a weapon. strength to use melee, insight to use range, tech to use range? maybe they have to roll a check to see if they can use the weapon successfully. then roll its damage, if they dont use it successfully, subtract a dice, players choice?

7 hours ago, Mandelore of the Rings said:

All these ideas sound pretty good. One of the big stat problems is that the only thing that matters for attacking is your weapon. In EotE it makes the characters Agility and Brawn relevant to attacking but in IA whoever uses whatever weapon always gets that set of dice... So, Murne wielding a vibro-axe would do the same damage as Jyn wielding it or even Gaarkhan . Kinda silly. In the same way, Gaarkhan shouldn't be as good at wielding some sniper rifle either... So I think that's something that would need to be modified. Ideally you'd want the least amount of generic stats possible though, to keep it simple. You don't need another EotE or another IA, but something with the best bits of both...

The Hub world sounds pretty good!

This is partly true. In IA characters are defined by their abilities both standard and from XP, and not by racial attributes. Why would one have Jyn wielding a vibro-axe? That would gimp her abilitiy. She doesn't have an ability that allows her to expend two strain to make two attacks after moving. That means Gaarkhan is, despite the base attack of the weapon, better with a vibro-axe than she is. Likewise some of Gaarkhan's XP abilities focus on improving his lethality with a melee weapon. Jyn has none of these, nor does Murne. It would be a waste of credits, and detrimental to the missions to equip a character with a weapon for which they were not suited.

in the arena of IA - character abilities generally dictate what types of weapons are best suited for them (mostly in terms of range and other tie-ins). This is because IA is a fast-paced, stripped-down tactics game. In a common d20 proficiencies would really equate to weapon specific upgrades (like Jyn's gunslinger perk)

...

once you get into the RP sphere (epsecially FFG's very abstract realm) there's more variables in the mix. Because the tactics formula are less well defined, they have the weapon proficiency bonuses in order to help counter-design against Vibro-Murne.

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I'm really just pointing this out to explain the rhyme and reason for both systems. Also, this is why sometimes trying to mesh the two isn't as easy or game-enhancing as you'd think.

...

So yeah, that's kinda in the realm of "where do you want this game system of yours to fall under?" Do you want it to be in the cinema heavy vein? tactics heavy? etc.

Thinkbomb is right, but over the years of playing lots of RPGs, I come to discover that most games are needless complex, and slow down the fun by bogging down play in a myriad of dice rolls that try to account for every variable. I think sometimes it is better just to reduce the complexity for the sake of fun. I find IA a good mix between RPG and war game, which is why I like it. I was a fan of shadows of Brimstone too, but the combat was just a hair to complex, and by complex i mean that pejoratively. As Bitterman knows, I've been working on reducing IA's complexity even further, by using Doom dice and eliminating surges and accuracy. Accuracy is fixed, as is defense is a fixed TN. Range can be improved one or two (depending on the weapon) by reducing damage rolled. The only thing I would change, if I could, would be to add a few more test attributes in order to improve the RPG element.