N0-1_H3r3 said:

Which is in and of itself buying into the mythology. From an in-universe perspective one could accept the label, as pointed out in the previous postsome (most?) believe that the Emperor is a god, so "demi-god" being applied to the Space Marines has more traction. Stating it as an undeniable fact, though? Less traction.

Kage

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Yup. 40K is fantasy with guns and space ships. I'll try to find the link but I read a great article with Rick P. and some others where they talk about putting out the first 40k book. At the time "nobody bought sci-fi" so they sold the idea as fantasy in space. So from the very start that was kind of the intent. I think its one founding idea that really helped shape 40K into what it is and has always made the universe different enough. Granted, some people really love sci-fi and are turned off by things like the over-sized marine shoulder pads, questionable technology ideas, etc. but I know for me this has always been a draw to the system.

I think it would be a mistaken assumption to work with the principle that even those that "cry out" for a tad more rationality are unaware of the origins or nature of the 40k universe. As someone who is want to look at the 40k universe through a sci-fi lens, I'm fully aware that the universe makes far more sense when you remove the sci-fi elements and think of things as simple, basic Tolkien-esque medieval fantasy. It has far more robusticity seen in that context than it does in its other purported category of "sci-fi." Amusingly, as a tongue-in-cheek reference, I once started writing up some of the basic concepts of "40kFantasy," where those unique (well, sort of unique) elements of the 40k universe were turned back into traditional "Dungeon Fantasy" fantasy. Thus, the Emperor became a Liche/Necromancer type chap, the Space Marines were various Orders of Knights that were magically enhanced by the techno-sorcerers of the Guild Mechanicum, etc. etc. It was fun and a rather interesting little game world(s).

When it comes to 40k, though, I mentioned a "lens of sci-fi." All this does, for me, is make the game into "sci-fantasy"you recognise the fun craziness as fantasy, but this doesn't mean that you have Eldar with fish swimming around their necks because you saw something similar in Merlin . (Well, you can if you want, but one imagines that it needs a certain amount of explanation within the context of the setting.)

Big pauldrons? Accepting the craziness of the 40k universe, I personally made these a special type of protective gadget that allowed the "weakening" of powered armour slightly so that it becomes more vulnerable than those from a generic "sci-fi" setting. Now they have these cool pads that, with the appropriate combat techniques/stances (defensive manoeuvres or whatever) they can interject the pad and get the benefits of an armour multiplier (or damage reducer, depending on whether your a glass half full or half empty person). It's a tad on the silly side, but I'm sure many might appreciate the imagery of a Marine moving through a barrage of fire, pauldrons acting like shields and looking for all intents and purposes like the scene from Sherlock Holmes (the recent film) where explosions are throwing debris all over the place. Then, at the end of it, they bring it with the chainswords and bolt pistols.

(And, of course, different Chapters have different combat techniques to either enhance or temper this kind of craziness.)

For me, the primary difference is that the whole shoulder pauldron is individualised to the Marine and supported by the 'fluff' without reference to "Team Awesome" powers. If you wanted to borrow from "Team Awesome" powers, then perhaps look to things like the "Targetting Web" of the Mentor Legion?

Ack, I realise that this is at least partially hypocritical. I define for my interpretation of Marines "heroic powers" that are somehow associated with the suit as a transcendent qualities that survive down through the ages to create a lineage and tradition that ties the Marine PC directly to their Chapter and its ideals. Some might argue that it is basically "Solo Mode," and all that "heroic power/glorious heritage" nonsense being just another variation of "Team Mode." Perhaps it is. "Team Mode" as described just struck me as... off. Combat spacing as a resource-limited power? Hang on, these are the elite warriors of the Imperium and yet their ability to work coherently as an effective combat team is limited by GM writ?

Of course, with that said, I recognise that if you're working with "knightly orders" that have such vastly different combat doctrines (errr) then, yeah... Errr. Tempers might fray, a defeat might bring into question the authority of the squad leader, etc.

And then we're full circle with regards to necessity, and one of the reasons that I'm willing to wait to see other examples of Team Mode to see how it works out, the implications, etc. Guess some of us are going to have to wait a couple of months to see how it all meshes together.

Kage