10 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

I think you're thinking of Broken Horn:

Whups yeah, was laser-focused on that and forgot how L3 worked

15 hours ago, BrotherFett said:

Putting crew Boba on this will be hilarious and fun. Maybe not the smartest, but hilarious.

At the risk of having this errata'd (I play scum after all) I still couldn't resist making a visual of just how useful this can be. (For some reason my old version of Vassal didn't have a C-Roc, so the GR-75 will have to suffice for the visual effect.)

3x6 board. Boba Crew + Scanner baffler. Boba crew alone is quite powerful, because of the massive size of the base. Any of the 4 rocks at the bottom of the board can be used to put the C-ROC on.

Any ships on the edge of the R1 deployment zone can be put very far into the board.

And that's assuming the 1.0 rule of being able to deploy at up to range 2 into the board isn't retained.

I'm not sure if I have enough for Epic CIS. I'll need 8 more Vultures and such and I can't afford that. I'm the only CIS at my local store, so I can't pull more in. I'll have to borrow another CROC (yo yo).

I just started thinking, though, the named generics could be really good in Epic as the Huge ships are easy to get into bullseye.

The more and more examples I read about, the more I doubt you can place regular crew cards on epic ships...

Perhaps a question for the AMA today?

1 hour ago, LUZ_TAK said:

The more and more examples I read about, the more I doubt you can place regular crew cards on epic ships...

Perhaps a question for the AMA today?

They have a regular crew slot (and even if they don't come with one, Broken Horn title gives one), so they will be able to have regular crew.

If they didn't want regular crew on huge ships they would have stayed with Team slots.

6 hours ago, rawbean said:

There's only room for two turret arc indicators, not sure how two turrets and a turret arc hardpoint could work. My guess is it only has its primary plus one hardpoint by default, and the title just adds the one turret slot.

Behold! Maybe that is why they have these new turret arc tokens. They keep track of turret location if the normal turret indicators are being utilized by other upgrades and hard points.

You can see a normal picture of the token in the original huge ship announcment article: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/7/11/bigger-battles/

Woah, I just noticed this:

"Veteran players with a C-ROC cruiser miniature from the first edition of X-Wing can also find the ship, upgrade, and quick build cards and tokens from this expansion pack in the Huge Ship Conversion Kit."

Is that a new thing? I don't use quick build cards often, but I do like having them.

6 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Woah, I just noticed this:

"Veteran players with a C-ROC cruiser miniature from the first edition of X-Wing can also find the ship, upgrade, and quick build cards and tokens from this expansion pack in the Huge Ship Conversion Kit."

Is that a new thing? I don't use quick build cards often, but I do like having them.

You can see some sample quick build cards in the upper corners of the teaser spread from the Huge Ship Conversion Kit article:

1 hour ago, Parakitor said:

Woah, I just noticed this:

"Veteran players with a C-ROC cruiser miniature from the first edition of X-Wing can also find the ship, upgrade, and quick build cards and tokens from this expansion pack in the Huge Ship Conversion Kit."

Is that a new thing? I don't use quick build cards often, but I do like having them.

59 minutes ago, J1mBob said:

You can see some sample quick build cards in the upper corners of the teaser spread from the Huge Ship Conversion Kit article:

It's really awesome to me that (at least initially) it seems like you could get a well-stacked C-ROC and a decent ace into a 200-pt list. Or a lighter C-ROC and a miniswarm. Such a cool idea.

And that's not to mention what awesome things you could do in epic...

5 hours ago, BrotherFett said:

Behold! Maybe that is why they have these new turret arc tokens. They keep track of turret location if the normal turret indicators are being utilized by other upgrades and hard points.

You can see a normal picture of the token in the original huge ship announcment article: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/7/11/bigger-battles/

Maybe, or maybe that's a double sided indicator that shows either the front or rear peg turret marker and goes on the upgrade card, so you know which turret arc marker is for which upgrade card.

1 minute ago, rawbean said:

Maybe, or maybe that's a double sided indicator that shows either the front or rear peg turret marker and goes on the upgrade card, so you know which turret arc marker is for which upgrade card.

I had that exact thought after I typed this up. It is most likely that: a token to put on the card to denote which turret is placed where.

Let's see, what shenanigans can you pull here...

I mentioned it in the thread about standard crew on huge ships, but IG-88D is without a doubt going to be stapled to the first C-ROC in a list, especially now that I've seen Azmorigan. IG-88D+Lando Calrissian+Damage Control Team looks amazing. In a single linked action, you get 2 Calculates + a Reinforce that can all be burned as fuel for Lando's rerolls as needed. If a C-ROC has two native Crew slots (presumably it would so you can carry Jabba) and can add a third via Broken Horn, you could add PerCo and have ALL THE MODS, ALL THE TIME for attacks.

Instead of PerCo, Azmorigan would be another amazing option for the synergies with Brobots. Brobots with D riding alongside Azmorigan I expect will be a standard Scum squad. Azmorigan+A gives amazing support to the whole squad, Corsair Refit+B = free bonus attack on miss via the cannon which very well could break the game (more on that later), and Cad Bane+C+devices means linked boost+evade on a huge ship (assuming boosting is possible on a huge ship, plus I bet you'd have to drop Lando for him) at the system phase. Then you've got Guri, 4-LOM, L3-37 and the new droid M-3A to expand the Brobot squad.

If huge ships can boost, Cad Bane would also synergize with Saboteur's Map, since you could use the remaining charges after pre-deploying mines to fuel boosts.

Saboteur's Map could also synergize with Boba Fett + mines. Depending on how the rules on wings work, you could drop 6 Quads/HWKs with Proximity/Cluster Mines as close to the enemy as possible, break up the wing and send the Quads going every which way, and then litter mines all over the enemy's side of the board. There's a good chance that won't work though, so you could instead pair Saboteur's Map with Emon+Boba+Andrasta deployed at the enemy's side to drop mines as he retreats to the rest of the fleet. Add Nym and an Electro Proton Bomb on Emon, and you can control quite a bit of space on the board before the shooting starts.

Boba Fett already has shenanigans as is especially with Scanner Baffler, but you could load up a kamikaze C-ROC with Boba & Dead Man's Switch, load it up with as many weapons as you feel you can afford, then crash into the enemy fleet guns-a-blazing and dare them to blow it up while it's at range 1 of their fleet.

Speaking of Boba + Scanner Baffler, I'm curious whether you can get Dace Bonearm into Range 1 of a huge ship on turn 1 with that strategy. Dace with 4-LOM + SDV (or any other means to ionize) could be really nasty for crippling an enemy huge ship's energy reserves (and limiting it's firepower) before it even gets to shoot.

Vizago got reduced to near uselessness since you can't even use him to trade off Saboteur's Map/Scanner Baffler for a usable illicit, but you could use him to equip double Deadman's Switches, and he's not very expensive so if as long as you've got a spare crew and illicit on a standard ship he might be given a ride now and then. Hopefully we don't have to wait an eternity before we get Illicits that are actually good. Although... perhaps Inertial Dampeners will turn out to be really good on a huge ship? If so, Vizago + Inertial Dampeners on a I1 Quad or HWK + Deadman's Switch on a C-ROC (total cost 6 points) would be cheaper than putting an Inertial Dampeners on the C-ROC directly (presumably it'd cost atleast 8 points on a C-ROC as per the initiative based costing), while adding an extra illicit and potential Vizago jank on top. Using shenanigans to cheat costs is so flavorful!

Corsair Refit+Point Defense Lasers+Autoblasters/Ion Cannon/Heavy Laser Cannon+IG-88D+IG-88B really worries me. It may be the most broken thing in the game if FFG didn't word their rules correctly. If huge ships don't have any restriction on bonus attacks, a C-ROC with IG-88B on the field has the potential to fire 4+ attacks in a turn, then activate B's ability infinitely to bonus attack with its cannon for each attack until every single attack hits. As bad as TLTs were, they never had the ability to throw infinite dice until you took damage.

18 hours ago, Bort said:

So between all the previews the unknown cards in the C-ROC kit are:

• Command - Stalwart captain
• Team - Ordinance Team
• Cargo - Adaptive Shields
• Cargo - Optimized Power Core
• Hard Point - Ordinance Tubes

We have a partial spoil of Ordnance Tubes:

I like what your throwing out here.

some comments...

First of all, I would be very surprised if there isn't going to be a general rule stating that huge ships can't boost/roll. Too many absurd things can happen if they can.

7 hours ago, Enigami said:

If huge ships can boost, Cad Bane would also synergize with Saboteur's Map, since you could use the remaining charges after pre-deploying mines to fuel boosts.

Cad Bane requires a device to be dropped or launched. But Saboteur's Map lets you "Place" them. So this one won't work.

*Edit. Ignore me... I misread your plan. Yes, you can use the remaining charges to boost... assuming you can boost. I thought you wanted to do a pre-game boost.

I see what you say here. Wow! I was planning on doing this anyways simply because IGs are my favorite ship, and I have been anxiously awaiting epic so I can play 3 + C-ROC plus all the robots I can field. But that was just meant to be a fun thematic thing... now its insane.

I do however think it shouldn't go into infinity. Strictly as written at the moment I guess each "bonus" attack that then misses will in itself generate another trigger for B, which will generate another bonus attack. This was never a problem before due to the hard limit on one bonus attack per turn, which Huge ships don't seem to have.

But won't the "once per opportunity" thing somehow put a stop to it? I guess not, because each attack and or bonus attack you make is a fresh opportunity.

Clearly this is rather broken, as you say. Even without all the rest, any cannon + 88D + 88B in the fleet will guarantee that every C-ROC shot fired becomes a guaranteed hit with a cannon.

*Edit. maybe they will be hard limited to one bonus attack in general excluding hard point attacks?

*Edit edit... no, that can't be right either. Corsair refit (config) and Merchant one (title) obviously also work on the multiple bonus attack mechanic. Good luck anyone facing my C-ROC robo fleet!! Bwhahahah!

Slight necro, to calm any panic (or in my case over-excitement) towards IG-88D crew on C-Rocs. @Enigami pointed out that 88B's wording would allow infinite cannon attacks until one hits because Huge ships are not limited to one Bonus attack per turn. I don't think it will be the case.

The way they formatted this card allows it to have 4 bonus attacks. Even if it has like 10 energy.

Compare this to something like Targetting battery. It only has one Bonus attack line, also requiring one energy spent.

So obviously there is still some form of restriction on Huge ships and bonus attacks. So maybe for Huge ships there will be a general rule that each bonus attack can only be taken once (with Point-Defense obviously overriding that rule). I'm speculating for sure, but obviously if Huge ships are just able to take any number of bonus attacks, without restriction then any of the hardpoint attacks can be taken multiple times, and Point-Defense layout is kinda dumb.

One bonus attack per time it is mentioned on the card. So, if you had enough energy, you could fire a Turbo Laser once or the Point Defense System 4 times. Or. . All of them if you have the energy. Energy is going to be the limiting factor.

2 hours ago, heychadwick said:

One bonus attack per time it is mentioned on the card. So, if you had enough energy, you could fire a Turbo Laser once or the Point Defense System 4 times. Or. . All of them if you have the energy. Energy is going to be the limiting factor.

Yup. I know how energy works, and hard point bonus attacks.

The issue was (if you scroll up 3 posts) IG88D crew on a C-ROC with an IG88B in the fleet.

My point in the above post was that although Huge ships have multiple Bonus attacks allowed, they probably won't have infinite bonus attacks (until one finally hits) from 88B. The limitation on one bonus attack per instance is still implied or more likely explicitly ruled for Huge ships.

If however it is not stated, and Huge ships can simply take "as many bonus attacks as they want" then 88D is broken.

14 hours ago, Bort said:

Yup. I know how energy works, and hard point bonus attacks.

The issue was (if you scroll up 3 posts) IG88D crew on a C-ROC with an IG88B in the fleet.

My point in the above post was that although Huge ships have multiple Bonus attacks allowed, they probably won't have infinite bonus attacks (until one finally hits) from 88B. The limitation on one bonus attack per instance is still implied or more likely explicitly ruled for Huge ships.

If however it is not stated, and Huge ships can simply take "as many bonus attacks as they want" then 88D is broken.

Ahh....sorry. I had a minute to spare and didn't read the whole thread.

I do think Huge ships will get to fire as many bonus attacks as they want....if they have the Energy. What does interest me, though, is the Cannon and Turret slots. Those don't normally require energy and I think they will probably get to fire as many times as they want each round. Not sure how many you can fit on a Huge ship. I don't really think it will break them, though. A Turret is only R 1-2 and a Cannon is either a HLC that fires in the bullseye only or something else that isn't that great.

Thinking more on cannons and figured a new paragraph....I think the Ion Cannon will probably be pretty good options, especially if they don't require Energy. R1-3. You can possibly run over a ship you ionize. It would be good vs. Huge ships. Only works in front arc. Pretty good option, I think. It could be enough to wreck havoc on Huge ships. It is more expensive than the HLC, too. Speaking of Heavy Laser Cannon....that will be brutal and we will see a lot of them in Epic games. 2 pts gets you 4 dice for anything in bullseye. It will be a lot easier to get ships in bullseye arc with more on the table. Huge ships, sure, but with more regular ships, it will be easier to hit them, too. I can see a Huge ship (especially Raider) with them. CR-90? Not sure as they will prefer broadsides. They might want Ion more.

Turrets? Well, my main thoughts are if you have hardpoint turrets and little turrets. We will have to put one of the turret rings on top of the other. Kind of odd. Still, Dorsal turrets will be great for the occasional little ship that gets close. Once again, Ion will also be good to help either escape from a little ship nearby or to hit any Huge that gets unlucky enough to be in R1-2.

My guess is little stuff won't have to use Energy. They don't on the little ships.

28 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Ahh....sorry. I had a minute to spare and didn't read the whole thread.

No worries, threads (and my posts) tend to get a lot to follow.

28 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Ahh....sorry. I had a minute to spare and didn't read the whole thread.

I do think Huge ships will get to fire as many bonus attacks as they want....if they have the Energy. What does interest me, though, is the Cannon and Turret slots. Those don't normally require energy and I think they will probably get to fire as many times as they want each round. Not sure how many you can fit on a Huge ship. I don't really think it will break them, though. A Turret is only R 1-2 and a Cannon is either a HLC that fires in the bullseye only or something else that isn't that great.

Pretty much as far as I can gather from the cards you are correct. You will be able to fire multiple bonus attacks.

But as for cannons and turrets being automatic free bonus attacks, I don't think so.

What we know:

Corsair Refit config adds Cannon, Turret and Missile slots, but then specifically states you can spend 1 energy to fire these wpns as a bonus attack.

Merchant One title adds a Turret slot, and then states you can perform a Turret attack as a bonus (no energy required here though)

So my thinking is that if it has normal turret and cannon attacks, without anything else making it a bonus attack, the huge ship will still be limited to one shot per round. So basically you choose between Primary and all secondaries like normal. And then you can do as many bonus attacks as you have Bonus Attack abilities (providing you have enough energy to fuel the ones that need it). I don't think you will automatically be able to fire all secondaries. Once again, if you could, the wording on Corsair Refit and Merchant One wouldn't be needed. Especially Merchant One. If simply adding the Turret slot automatically made this secondary weapon available as a free Bonus attack nothing more would have been stated on the card.

But I can't remember what has already been revealed/explained.

Apologies if I'm missing something that's already been said.

Re bonus attacks, could it not be that Huge ships are only allowed to make 1 (free) bonus attack, and any number of bonus attacks that require spending energy? With the assumption that each weapon source can only be fired once no matter what you're using to get to fire it (so Point-Defence Battery can only activate once, but when it does it allows you to use it 4 times).

That means that Merchant One gets an additional free turret attack, and Corsair refit can spend energy to fire its turret (for example) once, or multiple energy to fire each additional slot once. Also means that IG88 stuff is still limited by energy, or actual free options.

(This may be very poorly articulated, but currently this is the only way I can string these words together! )

3 hours ago, heychadwick said:

Thinking more on cannons and figured a new paragraph....I think the Ion Cannon will probably be pretty good options, especially if they don't require Energy. R1-3. You can possibly run over a ship you ionize. It would be good vs. Huge ships. Only works in front arc. Pretty good option, I think. It could be enough to wreck havoc on Huge ships. It is more expensive than the HLC, too. Speaking of Heavy Laser Cannon....that will be brutal and we will see a lot of them in Epic games. 2 pts gets you 4 dice for anything in bullseye. It will be a lot easier to get ships in bullseye arc with more on the table. Huge ships, sure, but with more regular ships, it will be easier to hit them, too. I can see a Huge ship (especially Raider) with them. CR-90? Not sure as they will prefer broadsides. They might want Ion more.

Commenting on HLC, while I do believe that we'll see HLC more on smaller ships in Epic due to its cheap cost and the volume of ships, it does cost 4 pts, not 2, and the raider(if it has a cannon slot) already has HLC because it rolls an extra die vs anything in it's bullseye, so no need there.

Keeping in mind we don't have the release of the huge ship rules, my current understanding is that you will be able to attack with your primary or a special weapon as the attack as per the normal rules (one primary, or turret, or missile, etc), and then trigger any number of bonus attacks per their card rules/triggers/costs. So, you don't get to fire every special weapon that you have equiped, unless they are bonus attacks that you can trigger .

The Raider -class already has better than a HLC built in considering its primary attack and bullseye ship ability.