Looking at the Advanced V1 and the restrictions within the upgrade itself I'm thinking the 4-5 point range.

Illicit slot upgrade (as stated in the thread title)

"Force Sensitive"

2 pip limited.

Restriction box text: Non-limited ship

Adds 1 recurring Force charge.

Ability Text: If you have a slot, replace it with a slot. This upgrade cannot be moved to another ship.

Edit: For easier reference

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

Looking at the Advanced V1 and the restrictions within the upgrade itself I'm thinking the 4-5 point range.

Illicit slot upgrade (as stated in the thread title)

"Force Sensitive"

2 pip limited.

Restriction box text: Non-limited ship

Adds 1 recurring Force charge.

Ability Text: If you have a slot, replace it with a slot. This upgrade cannot be moved to another ship.

I'd suggested something a bit weaker, or costing it up.

Perhaps Force sensitive gives 2 non-recurring charges and doesn't give force slot, but isn't limited. 5 points.

Rogue Force User could be a new name for what you'd suggested cost 8 points?

Glitterstim (2 Charges) - At the start of your activation, you may spend a charge to gain 4 focus tokens and two stress. 4 points

Or

Deathsticks (1 Charge) - At the start of the engagement phase, you may spend a charge and gain three stress to treats all focus results as crits or evades. 4 points

Deliberating trying to make narcotics strong but then debilitating so they aren't too expensive.

2 hours ago, Scum4Life said:

Perhaps Force sensitive gives 2 non-recurring charges and doesn't give force slot, but isn't limited. 5 points.

Rogue Force User could be a new name for what you'd suggested cost 8 points?

The name for the character archetype in Edge of the Empire is "Force Sensitive Exile", I believe. I would still think it should be single dot limited - they weren't common! - but a generic-ish force crew would be a nice tool for scum and villainy, who have lots of large ships but currently only 1 force sensitive pilot in the entire faction.

They should still have a 'special way' of either spending or recovering the charge - I'm not sure what, but I'd suggest something escape-artist-ey - a defensive ability of some kind.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The name for the character archetype in Edge of the Empire is "Force Sensitive Exile", I believe. I would still think it should be single dot limited - they weren't common! - but a generic-ish force crew would be a nice tool for scum and villainy, who have lots of large ships but currently only 1 force sensitive pilot in the entire faction.

They should still have a 'special way' of either spending or recovering the charge - I'm not sure what, but I'd suggest something escape-artist-ey - a defensive ability of some kind.

Perhaps such a crew could have a recurring normal charge on it as well which dictates when the Force charge regens.

If the crew-carrier is attacked (or damaged? That may be too strong, however), the charge is made inactive (think Wampa). If the charge is active at the end of the engagement phase, the card regenerates one Force charge.

The conceit of this would be that the crew isn't trained in (or even aware of) the Force, and as such they aren't always in the 'right' frame of mind to use their abilities. If their ship isn't getting shot at, it gives them a chance to focus/relax/regroup/huff some spice/whatever.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The name for the character archetype in Edge of the Empire is "Force Sensitive Exile", I believe. I would still think it should be single dot limited - they weren't common! - but a generic-ish force crew would be a nice tool for scum and villainy, who have lots of large ships but currently only 1 force sensitive pilot in the entire faction.

They should still have a 'special way' of either spending or recovering the charge - I'm not sure what, but I'd suggest something escape-artist-ey - a defensive ability of some kind.

Ok how about an illicit + crew combos

Force Sensitive Exile - Illicit + Crew slot

2 recurring charges - After fully executing a manuveur, you may spend two charges to gain a focus token.

Not as practised as a jedi and uses two slots. Cost at 6-8 points?

Illicit and crew seems odd but makes a degree of sense; you are probably smuggling the individual, after all.

I think having a force sensitive crew giving you a force charge makes sense, but making it not be a naturally recurring one makes sense too.

Make it : +1 instead of : +1 ^▴ and instead of a unique way to spend it, give it the pilot ability "after you [trigger], recover 1 ".

I was thinking maybe give the upgrade a red action of some kind (maybe a red focus action?), and recover your after performing that action?

11 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Illicit and crew seems odd but makes a degree of sense; you are probably smuggling the individual, after all.

I think having a force sensitive crew giving you a force charge makes sense, but making it not be a naturally recurring one makes sense too.

Make it : +1 instead of : +1 ^▴ and instead of a unique way to spend it, give it the pilot ability "after you [trigger], recover 1 ".

I was thinking maybe give the upgrade a red action of some kind (maybe a red focus action?), and recover your after performing that action?

What about you may receive a stress to recover the charge or after removing a stress, recover a charge.

Yes a smuggled passenger was my idea.

Image added to first post.

8 hours ago, Scum4Life said:

1. I'd suggested something a bit weaker, or costing it up.

2. Perhaps Force sensitive gives 2 non-recurring charges and doesn't give force slot, but isn't limited. 5 points.

3. Rogue Force User could be a new name for what you'd suggested cost 8 points?

1. I already did (Advanced V1 points increase from the I3 Baron to the I3 Inquisitor is 3 points. Difference between the 2 is the slot and 1 recurring force charge).

2. A bank of 2 calculate tokens (all a non-recurring force charge is is a calculate token) for 5 points... That isn't a bit weaker, that is gutted and wouldn't be taken. This doesn't give a force slot, it replaces a Talent slot if the ship it is equipped to has one with the Force slot. If the ship doesn't have a Talent Slot, then it won't have a Force slot with this upgrade.

3. I think you're missing how restricted this upgrade already is. Can only be applied to Generics (that is what "non-limited ship" means) that have an illicit slot (which only get the single recurring force charge) and full effect only works with the 4 generic ships that have both the Talent and Illicit slots. The Cartel Executioner (Kimogila), Black Sun Soldier (Z-95 Headhunter), Black Sun Ace (Kihraxz), and the Hired Gun (Y-Wing). The 2 pip limitation on the upgrade is there as a further restriction to prevent spamming (Binyare with this even at your suggested 8pts would fit 6 in a list) and to stick with the theme that Force Sensitives are fairly rare, though not extinct (Unlike the Jedi which were parred down from thousands of members to just a couple of handfuls at most).

5 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Image added to first post.

1. I already did (Advanced V1 points increase from the I3 Baron to the I3 Inquisitor is 3 points. Difference between the 2 is the slot and 1 recurring force charge).

2. A bank of 2 calculate tokens (all a non-recurring force charge is is a calculate token) for 5 points... That isn't a bit weaker, that is gutted and wouldn't be taken. This doesn't give a force slot, it replaces a Talent slot if the ship it is equipped to has one with the Force slot. If the ship doesn't have a Talent Slot, then it won't have a Force slot with this upgrade.

3. I think you're missing how restricted this upgrade already is. Can only be applied to Generics (that is what "non-limited ship" means) that have an illicit slot (which only get the single recurring force charge) and full effect only works with the 4 generic ships that have both the Talent and Illicit slots. The Cartel Executioner (Kimogila), Black Sun Soldier (Z-95 Headhunter), Black Sun Ace (Kihraxz), and the Hired Gun (Y-Wing). The 2 pip limitation on the upgrade is there as a further restriction to prevent spamming (Binyare with this even at your suggested 8pts would fit 6 in a list) and to stick with the theme that Force Sensitives are fairly rare, though not extinct (Unlike the Jedi which were parred down from thousands of members to just a couple of handfuls at most).

I prefer mechanics that aren't just a single recurring force (even if that is lackg in scum and villainy) i prefer something a little different and cheaper but intertwined with a negative mechanics (to feel more Scummy)

Having looked through YASB, I agree i was being too high on points. I was comparing to IG-88D (2 calculate for an action for three points) a recurring force charge is better as it adds flexibility and consistent and locks but not worth 8 points.

This is something I've thought of for awhile. Specifically:

Sith Holocron - Illicit, 10 points

1 force charge, recurring.

You can only use [force] to modify your attack dice.

Jedi Holocron - Illicit, 11 points

1 force charge, recurring.

You can only use [force] to modify your defense dice.

On 10/3/2019 at 3:30 AM, Scum4Life said:

recurring force charge is better as it adds flexibility and consistent and locks but not worth 8 points.

You know people pay 12pts just for Maul, right? Or 9 for 5bro?

11 hours ago, gadwag said:

You know people pay 12pts just for Maul, right? Or 9 for 5bro?

🤨 Do they do it for ships that don't have an ingrained ability that either synergizes or works parallel with their (5th Brother and Mauls) Force Charges though? The Maul builds I've seen use him for variance mitigation at point blank (Fearless Ketsu, Boba, etc) especially against massed fire (Maul is basically Hate + a Force charge in and of himself). The only builds I know of that run 5th bro are Decimators, Whisper or Duchess.

On 10/3/2019 at 11:34 AM, ClassicalMoser said:

This is something I've thought of for awhile. Specifically:

Sith Holocron - Illicit, 10 points

1 force charge, recurring.

You can only use [force] to modify your attack dice.

Jedi Holocron - Illicit, 11 points

1 force charge, recurring.

You can only use [force] to modify your defense dice.

If you have both of these holocrons and a force user, you should get a bonus where you can see something's dial to mirror the scene where Kanan, Ezra and Maul saw different things from the combined holocrons.

You're paying somewhere in the ballpark of 35 points for four effects but hey.

2 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

If you have both of these holocrons and a force user, you should get a bonus where you can see something's dial to mirror the scene where Kanan, Ezra and Maul saw different things from the combined holocrons.

You're paying somewhere in the ballpark of 35 points for four effects but hey.

Specialty of the Shadow Caster only I guess. But then, Assajj with 5 force...

...that you literally aren’t allowed to use at all due to the wording I chose, haha.

12 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 Do they do it for ships that don't have an ingrained ability that either synergizes or works parallel with their (5th Brother and Mauls) Force Charges though? The Maul builds I've seen use him for variance mitigation at point blank (Fearless Ketsu, Boba, etc) especially against massed fire (Maul is basically Hate + a Force charge in and of himself).

Variance mitigation is the entire point of force charges. The reason any ship equips Maul or 5bro is to mitigate variance.

12 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

The only builds I know of that run 5th bro are Decimators, Whisper or Duchess.

What other imperial ships with gunner slots are competitive right now? Bombers are seeing some use, but generally in multiples