I would have liked to have seen Sigmar's Intervention be a 0R neutral tactic. Everyone would have to play it (so it's not an ideal solution), but it would have certainly taken some of the bite out of blitz.

Crowdmind posted the above in the warpstone ban thread..... It has inspired me to start this thread.

Post your card ideas here that will stop/slowdown the current rush enviroment.

I will post one later.

Have fun!!!!!

The scary thing is that if the fastest of the fast decks are slowed down even one turn, the unitless bolt thrower deck becomes almost unbeatable.

It's too early folks. Wait till more expansions are added. Nuff said

f7eleven said:

Not really, the unitless bolt thrower is only good because no one is taking it into consideration when they make a deck. Running 3x Mob Ups would kill that deck easily.

Rezoh said:

Rezoh said:

I agree with this, it's far to early in the games evolution to be magic bulleting things. If it goes like any other game asit goes on we will see different decks come to the fore and take the rush crown.

Its meant to be for a bit of fun and to get some ideas down, nothing more!!!!

Chill out

Palisade Wall

Cost - 4

Neutral Support

Only 1 unit may attack your capital during the battlefield phase. Sacrifice Palisade Wall if the opponent controls a Siege card.

Smash 'Em All is a pretty good card against the Bolt Thrower deck. People just don't tech against the deck because rush doesn't need to and rush is more important to tech against.

I think creating neutral cards to weaken Rush is a bad idea. At best you're only going to raise another deck type to the "best" strategy position. At worst, you could create an environment where everyone plays certain core cards, then adds a little of race flavor. What I would rather see is a series of cards for each race that may slow down a Rush opponent, but also keeps to the race's theme. Here are a few ideas:

A 1R2D Dwarf unit with two Toughness and two hit points (no hammers).

A 2R2DE Dark Elf unit with one power, two hit points, may corrupt to give target attacking unit -1 hit points until end of turn.

A 0R2E Empire tactic that allows the defending player to assign the damage from attacking units.

A 4R2C Chaos building (two power) that requires opponents to sacrifice a unit before attacking this zone (or, perhaps a cheaper version that only requires the attacker to corrupt a unit).

A 2R1H High Elf building (one power) that allows you to redirect one point of damage from your capital to a unit you control.

I'm going to intentionally omit the Orcs, since an anti-rush card doesn't really fit with the Orc theme.

RM

Toberk said:

Agreed, and there are other ways to wipe it out and deal with it, too.

Actually, no. I'm running 3x Mob Up! in Orc/Skaven right now and I am still maybe 50% winrate against a well piloted bolt thrower deck. They draw more cards than you do in the early to mid game, and so are just as likely if not more to have the High Elf's Disdain for your Mob Up!s on the critical turn. Mob Up! can be relevant at forcing through damage in the early game, but as ever, winning the late game against bolt thrower comes down to luck more often than skill (once you're above a certain minimum understanding of the matchup).

I would venture a guess that someone who hasnt tested the matchup would lose to a well-piloted thrower deck on the order of 70%+ of the time. People saying otherwise are, IMO, just not playing/building the thrower deck correctly.

It is clearly the best deck in the format and it isnt close. It beats up so badly on every non-Skaven rush deck its hilarious. The only matchup I think reliably posts 50% winrate against thrower is DE/Skaven that maxes out on scouts and splashes Mob Up!, but again, a well-piloted bolt thrower deck can abuse the slower clock of DE/Skaven to set up a critical turn faster than DE/Skaven can handle. Abandoned Mine and good draw/development management also goes a long way toward winning this matchup.

Your results could also, conversely, be related to how you're playing or testing against the BT decks... Hard to get a good feel (yet) imho, for how tough or not tough that particular deck is or isn't. I suspect that you could be right to some extent but then I've not see it be that dominant around these parts when I've faced it. It's definitely one of the cooler deck ideas (though I know a bunch of us had thought of doing this kind of deck a while back but lacked the right cards to really make it gel).

I'm excited to see what the play environment will be like in about 6 months, once we have even more cards. Should be interesting.

Given our current Orc/Skaven build, the thread for which is here, I posted my thoughts for playing Skaven v. bolt thrower in post #29 of this thread.

I welcome insight on my lines of play, but I think our understanding of the Skaven v. Bolt Thrower matchup is pretty good, barring new technology. (We thought about running Smash 'em All! over Mob Up! today, for example, which might change the matchup considerably... or it might just make the bolt thrower play more unsummon effects... le sigh...).

Hey, gonna stop lurking for a sec to comment.

You really don't want to create a universal counter to rush because it causes one of two things to happen.

a) The card is powerful and effectively slows rush down so that plays against an enemy that draws this card must play in the mid game. If this is true, countering rush is no longer a choice, it is an assumption. There is no deck without a stong anti-rush card, and thus no one can play rush except as a Zwichenzug play, as anyone playing control in a rush heavy just plays 3x that card and wins. The problem with this is that, while in a rush heavy environment, everyone is desperate for a good "thinking man's" control game, believe me, endless control v. control games suck. There is no pressure. Its easier to pull off a win despite lax play because no one can with before stage 3. Basically, its 3-4 turns of snoozefest build up followed by 1-2 turns of one of you instantly demolishing the other.

b) The card becomes a coaster.

What we need is targeted anti-rush cards. Defend the Empire is a good example. The card specifically helps the empire, which is lacking against aggro, but doesn't give, say DE bolt-thrower, an anti-aggro card. More targeted rush counters of this kind will go a long way.

The last thing we need is going from skaven rush spam to unit-less bolt thrower spam

Won't happen because the Unit-less BT decks are fairly over-rated and nowhere near as good as some here have (mistakenly) hyped them to be. No worries, man.

Zwichenzug sounds german, but I have no idea what it means, can you explain it?