4 hours ago, KAGE13 said:

Another rule we missed this weekend, is that you have to decide if you are going to spend a skilled spacer to get an extra Veteran BEFORE the battles begin.

Correct. The good news is that it is a team expenditure that each player can benefit from.

4 hours ago, KAGE13 said:

But on page 12 it says for 400 point fleets you use the 6x3 for regular battles and 3x6 for Pivotal battles. So all battles with the larger fleets (except pivotal) are played with the set up on the 3' sides. Obviously this is going to be easily missed.

Which means you do not need double the obstacles, it is still only 3' wide. So you cannot just go around the Gravity rift, which was my worry playing these new objectives on the regular 3x6.
So, now should you double the squadrons on some of the objectives? 45 points of squadrons would be almost meaningless compared to 200 point battles. same with Allies. 45 points is almost nothing if fleets are getting to 500 points. at least no where near the advantage they were intended to be with 200 point fleets.

I still believe this to be a typo. The only time the 3’ sides are used as player edges are specifically called out in the objectives. Given Sector Fleet battles up to 1200 points are played on a 3’ x 6’ play area and even the Corellian Conflict AOO battle is played on the same size (for 4 players - 1000 pts/side) I suspect that there is little to this.

If indeed the player setup areas are on the 3’ sides, that could be interesting, but some ships would not get into battle. Think of how long it would take for the SSD to get out of the deployment zone.

I have a few questions about Purrgils after we used them on the Abandoned Mining Facility objective.

They count as an obstacle, does that also mean they obstruct when I'm trying to fire through them?

When crashing into them, can the damage caused be taken on shields? The rule book doesn't say.

When moving them, is it always the second player that moves it first or does this alternate at all?

Thanks in advance

6 minutes ago, Blinky82 said:

I have a few questions about Purrgils after we used them on the Abandoned Mining Facility objective.

They count as an obstacle, does that also mean they obstruct when I'm trying to fire through them?

When crashing into them, can the damage caused be taken on shields? The rule book doesn't say.

When moving them, is it always the second player that moves it first or does this alternate at all?

Thanks in advance

Yes, obstacles obstruct unless the rules say otherwise.

Yes, if the rules say “damage”, and doesn’t say where exactly, then the defender picks which hull zone to take that damage on, and applies it as normal. ( Just like debris fields). The difference is If it says damage CARD.

as for the last one, you will need to refer to the purgill rules and specific objective rules

44 minutes ago, Blinky82 said:

When moving them, is it always the second player that moves it first or does this alternate at all?

Thanks in advance

In Abandoned Mining Facility, the second player always selects one of the two Purrgils to move first.

27 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Yes, obstacles obstruct unless the rules say otherwise.

Yes, if the rules say “damage”, and doesn’t say where exactly, then the defender picks which hull zone to take that damage on, and applies it as normal. ( Just like debris fields). The difference is If it says damage CARD.

as for the last one, you will need to refer to the purgill rules and specific objective rules

Thank you, the reason I ask about the movement is mainly because Abandoned Mining Facility and Hyperspace Migration both state how Purrgil movement should play out but Marked for Destruction does not. In AMF it's the second player, in HM it just says that they move towards the objective token opposite them so I guess order isn't important. On MfD it doesn't say anything.

Hence the confusion.

28 minutes ago, Blinky82 said:

Thank you, the reason I ask about the movement is mainly because Abandoned Mining Facility and Hyperspace Migration both state how Purrgil movement should play out but Marked for Destruction does not. In AMF it's the second player, in HM it just says that they move towards the objective token opposite them so I guess order isn't important. On MfD it doesn't say anything.

Hence the confusion.

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2019/08/rebellion-in-rim-obstacles-and.html?m=1

Second player always moves the first Purrgil. It might not be on the Hyperspace Migration card (probably because there's already a lot of text on the card), but it's in the RitR rules.

I have another question which sort of involves purrgils but also applies to other obstacles too. This came up in my game last night. So my opponent was flying a Nebulon B at speed 1. He had a Purrgil directly in front of his ship and one of my ships just beyond that. His movement meant that he crashed into my ship and also overlapped the Purrgil. We played it so that he took a face down damage from the crash and also a damage to his shields from the Purrgil hit.

Is this correct or would he only take damage from 1 of them? If so which one, and how is priority decided?

Obstacle overlaps only occur when the ship is finally placed on the table. So it sounds like, in your scenario - only the Ram damage would be done... So if he "tried to move" speed 1, and couldn't, because of your ship, and ended up where he started? Then he never overlapped the Purgill. Take one damage from the Ram and that's it.

If however, let us say, he was travelling at speed 2... He tries the speed 2 maneuver, rams your ship at that point... At that point, he moves back along the movement tool to the Speed 1 position, can be placed there , and in doing so - overlaps the Purgill. IN that instance, both damage from the Ship overlap and the Obstacle Overlap is done.

As long as the *final position* after ramming your ship was Overlapping the Purgill, then yes. You will take both Ram Damage (From the Ship overlap) and the Obstacle Overlap.

If however, the Obstacle is in a position where you don't actually finish your move on it, then it doesn't count. Only the ship ram would in that case.

Had my ship not been there he still would have landed on the Purrgil, does that make a difference?

Edit - Don't answer that, I understand now, it doesn't matter if he would have landed on it had my ship not been there because that's a completely different scenario and wouldn't have called for the ship to reduce speed temporarily.

Got it, thanks again for your help.

I know this was somewhat discussed in the Corellian Campaign, but whats is everyone's thoughts on veteran tokens and hyperspace jumping?

We're in contention right now on it and I might be a deciding vote for it. I can see both sides of the argument but maybe someone has a little more insight for it.

Basically the arguments against it are that the ship is counted as destroyed except it doesn't count as scarred. Since its not on the board at the end of the game its not eligible for a veteran token.

Arguments for it are it specifies its only counted as destroyed for scoring purposes, and that the gain veteran status step is separate from the scoring step of a battle.

I do feel as if it's ambiguous so we need to come to a consensus about it, but we have 2 players who are very much separated on it, (One of them had a ship that killed something and hyperspaced out, and one is on each side). The other imperial player and myself are fairly undecided and trying to be unbiased, so I'm hoping someone else has some insight on this.

1 hour ago, SirToastsalot said:

I know this was somewhat discussed in the Corellian Campaign, but whats is everyone's thoughts on veteran tokens and hyperspace jumping?

We're in contention right now on it and I might be a deciding vote for it. I can see both sides of the argument but maybe someone has a little more insight for it.

Basically the arguments against it are that the ship is counted as destroyed except it doesn't count as scarred. Since its not on the board at the end of the game its not eligible for a veteran token.

Arguments for it are it specifies its only counted as destroyed for scoring purposes, and that the gain veteran status step is separate from the scoring step of a battle.

I do feel as if it's ambiguous so we need to come to a consensus about it, but we have 2 players who are very much separated on it, (One of them had a ship that killed something and hyperspaced out, and one is on each side). The other imperial player and myself are fairly undecided and trying to be unbiased, so I'm hoping someone else has some insight on this.

Lets quote the pertinent rules:

Page 10 under "Veteran Ships and Squadrons": "Each non-veteran ship that was not destroyed during the battle and that destroyed at least one enemy ship becomes veteran"

Page 12 under "Hyperspace Retreat": "... It will count as destroyed when determining score, but does not become scarred after the battle has been resolved".

As I understand it, the ship will become veteran because it was not destroyed during the battle, it just count as destroyed when determining score.

I agree with @Lemmiwinks86 's assessment.

Hey! Can you buy unique upgrade from your base? E.g. we fought green objective, but as a reward I choose to take title reward from our team's base. Can it be unique? Or you can only get titles like Seventh Fleet this way?

Yes. If a player's battle used a campaign objective (green), then if that player opts to use their team's base reward for the turn they may take a unique reward from whichever base they select. In your case, that would be a unique ship title.

Thanks alot!

While I was waiting for premoderation I've got one more question about allies (from ally token or mission objective). If I add those allies to my fleet, do they count as part of my fleet value for determining understrenght bonus?

6 hours ago, DinAltEn said:

Thanks alot!

While I was waiting for premoderation I've got one more question about allies (from ally token or mission objective). If I add those allies to my fleet, do they count as part of my fleet value for determining understrenght bonus?

Yes, the player adds that ship or squadrons to his fleet for that game, so they definitely count.

8 hours ago, DinAltEn said:

If I add those allies to my fleet, do they count as part of my fleet value for determining understrenght bonus?

Disagreeing with the other reply, probably not. This is because of the rule on page 3, Scoring Additional Forces:

Quote

When determining scores at the end of the game , the fleet point value of destroyed ships (and their equipped upgrades) and squadrons that were added to a player's fleet are counted as enemy ships or squadrons by that player's opponent.

The rule specifies that added stuff counts for points when determining scores. The page 2 rule also notes that the forces are removed "[a]fter a campaign game."

The "campaign game" is the thing completed in the "Fight Battle" step of the Battle Phase. So as soon as the game is finished, before scoring , the additional ships or squadrons are removed. But because of the page 3 rule they are included when scoring in Step 3 "Score Battle" of the Battle Phase. Meaning they're gone when we get to Step 4 "Determine Experience" of the Battle Phase (when the XP understrength bonus happens) and definitely gone when we get to Step 3 "Gain Rewards" of the Management Phase (for the rewards understrength bonus).

The additional units are never added to the fleet, only counted when scoring.

And this makes sense in the context of the game. The understrength bonus is a long-term, campaign effect - there to stop one side snowballing out of control. But stuff is added for one specific game either due to an Ally Token (hard to get and one-time use), or through an Objective (designed to balance out the first-player advantage, so you shouldn't need an extra reward for playing against one - being first player should be enough).

We've been playing that only forces/points added through rewards or Ally tokens count toward the Understrength bonus, and not forces added through objectives.

1 hour ago, Grumbleduke said:

Disagreeing with the other reply, probably not. This is because of the rule on page 3, Scoring Additional Forces:

The rule specifies that added stuff counts for points when determining scores. The page 2 rule also notes that the forces are removed "[a]fter a campaign game."

The "campaign game" is the thing completed in the "Fight Battle" step of the Battle Phase. So as soon as the game is finished, before scoring , the additional ships or squadrons are removed. But because of the page 3 rule they are included when scoring in Step 3 "Score Battle" of the Battle Phase. Meaning they're gone when we get to Step 4 "Determine Experience" of the Battle Phase (when the XP understrength bonus happens) and definitely gone when we get to Step 3 "Gain Rewards" of the Management Phase (for the rewards understrength bonus).

The additional units are never added to the fleet, only counted when scoring.

And this makes sense in the context of the game. The understrength bonus is a long-term, campaign effect - there to stop one side snowballing out of control. But stuff is added for one specific game either due to an Ally Token (hard to get and one-time use), or through an Objective (designed to balance out the first-player advantage, so you shouldn't need an extra reward for playing against one - being first player should be enough).

After carefully re-reading every relevant part of the rules I think you're right.

"After the winner of the resulting battle is determined, that player removes the additional forces from their fleet."

So efectively you remove them right after the winner is determined, which is right before the "Determine experience" step.

1 hour ago, Yipe said:

We've been playing that only forces/points added through rewards or Ally tokens count toward the Understrength bonus, and not forces added through objectives.

This is exactly how we played it. We agree that they probably shouldn't count based on the rules, but we felt the ally token would be a little too good, especially if you get a base on one early. It was basically a free 45 points every battle.