We were having a discussion the other day about some of the (sometimes...energetic...lol) discussions here on the boards about buying Talents outside of a Spec.

Now I know some say "Nope, if it's not in a Spec tough", others say "Yeah, that's what Scars rules are for" and still others just say "Run Genesys!"

However, during our discussion, on of my players brought up something that seems a rather balanced solution and yet seems so simple.

Allow the player to choose another talent in place of Dedication. Talent choice, of course, to be approved by the GM. This way it's on the most expensive row and the character actually trades something of value to get it, an Attribute increase.

This came from a discussion on advanced characters, and wondering what to do about attribute bloat and high attributes that don't really fit for the concept. Also, it allows a character to buy a talent that may have come out in a later spec that really fits their character concept and spec choices.

Thought I'd bring it up here to entertain discussion and thoughts. Fair or way off base?

At first glance, that does strike me as a somewhat elegant compromise and there isn't anything that immediately springs to mind as a reason why it couldn't work as a trade-off. I would probably be open to the idea if a player suggested it in my games - but a big part of my "GM approval" would probably come more from whether I thought the talent had a thematic link to the character/career than anything else.

That's what we were talking about concerning the GM approval. So probably no Barrel Roll for a straight gunslinger or charmer, but probably not a problem for the pilot/driver.

I would certainly allow it if asked.

In the EotE GM Kit there's rules for building a Nemesis with XP as if it were a PC. For them, it says talents can be purchased outside a career but there's like an extra 40xp in cost.

On 9/29/2019 at 5:34 AM, Jareth Valar said:

We were having a discussion the other day about some of the (sometimes...energetic...lol) discussions here on the boards about buying Talents outside of a Spec.

Now I know some say "Nope, if it's not in a Spec tough", others say "Yeah, that's what Scars rules are for" and still others just say "Run Genesys!"

However, during our discussion, on of my players brought up something that seems a rather balanced solution and yet seems so simple.

Allow the player to choose another talent in place of Dedication. Talent choice, of course, to be approved by the GM. This way it's on the most expensive row and the character actually trades something of value to get it, an Attribute increase.

This came from a discussion on advanced characters, and wondering what to do about attribute bloat and high attributes that don't really fit for the concept. Also, it allows a character to buy a talent that may have come out in a later spec that really fits their character concept and spec choices.

Thought I'd bring it up here to entertain discussion and thoughts. Fair or way off base?

I personally don't think it's necessary to sacrifice the Dedication for it. There are countless examples in media of a character learning that ONE TRICK, from an ally, or mentor, that is totally outside their normal skill set. Usually due to a lot of amusing/frustrating training montages, and it ultimately ends up being incredibly useful at a clutch moment in the story, usually towards the climax. The ambassador taught that one grapple technique, who uses it to allow them to escape a captor, The gunman taught how to relax and meditate by their monk/mystic buddy. A fire-bender being taught a water-bender inspired technique, etc etc. A stubborn water bender finally learning that one dodging step technique from an air bender fighting style. The list is long and lustrous.

If a player is just REALLY set on trying to learn a single talent out of another tree, then I would have it be something of a side story for them. Make it a mini-arc in your campaign, of them busting their butt to learn the singular skill. And, if they perform well enough in your mini-arc, the reward is they are able to buy that talent independently. Regular price.

There is precedent for this in the game line, as there are at least...2 (I think) unique Force powers, that are introduced in some of the Force and Destiny game modules, that specify they are able to learn these unique powers, specifically because they found X object, or underwent Y training/trial.

If the player wants several talents from this "other" tree, then I would say they should just cross-spec like everyone else, and go as normal. But if it really is just ONE talent they want, meh, just have a short game arc (maybe a session or 2), focusing on them trying to learn it, and be done with it.

On 9/30/2019 at 10:58 AM, KungFuFerret said:

I personally don't think it's necessary to sacrifice the Dedication for it. There are countless examples in media of a character learning that ONE TRICK, from an ally, or mentor, that is totally outside their normal skill set. Usually due to a lot of amusing/frustrating training montages, and it ultimately ends up being incredibly useful at a clutch moment in the story, usually towards the climax. The ambassador taught that one grapple technique, who uses it to allow them to escape a captor, The gunman taught how to relax and meditate by their monk/mystic buddy. A fire-bender being taught a water-bender inspired technique, etc etc. A stubborn water bender finally learning that one dodging step technique from an air bender fighting style. The list is long and lustrous.

If a player is just REALLY set on trying to learn a single talent out of another tree, then I would have it be something of a side story for them. Make it a mini-arc in your campaign, of them busting their butt to learn the singular skill. And, if they perform well enough in your mini-arc, the reward is they are able to buy that talent independently. Regular price.

There is precedent for this in the game line, as there are at least...2 (I think) unique Force powers, that are introduced in some of the Force and Destiny game modules, that specify they are able to learn these unique powers, specifically because they found X object, or underwent Y training/trial.

If the player wants several talents from this "other" tree, then I would say they should just cross-spec like everyone else, and go as normal. But if it really is just ONE talent they want, meh, just have a short game arc (maybe a session or 2), focusing on them trying to learn it, and be done with it.

If it were only ever going to be one talent, I agree, but this popped up from a discussion we were having about our long running game and a new one that one of the players just started.

In the long running game our characters are quite advanced (@2500 xp) and some don't see their attributes going up any higher than they are and all are heavily multi-spec already. Taking a new spec for just a couple of talents seems overkill and we were trying to find a balanced approach. Also, some talents synergize very well with some of the older specs, but are only available with the new hotness.

It's one of the reasons we house ruled allowing the switch out of Tricky Target for the base Barrel Roll. This could allow the pilot to advance that talent tree without trying to take the Clone Pilot spec, for example.

Anyway, thanks for all the reads and posts. More opinions are definitely welcome.