what happens when you play a "dark charm" with "Make no excuses" plot card from Zahirell's deck and that hero rolls and X ?

since the hero is "treated as a monster during the attack" and the Overlord can play "dark fortune" and it triggers at the same time as "Make no excuses", can you spend 1 threat token to "immediately defeat that monster" (hero for the case) ?

I would say "yes", but it looks like really strong to me, isn't it ?

You could be a real technical jerk and rule that defeating a hero causes him to suffer fatigue...

Honestly, it looks like a loophole. I don't have a solid argument for why it wouldn't work, but yes, it's a power move for sure.

Yeah, I don't like it, but it looks legit, RAW. Dark Charm states exclusions for OL cards that would need to be used outside the time frames of 1 Move and/or 1 Attack, and but Make No Excuse triggers when the monster roles an X, which occurs at Step 2 of the Attack order before the Attack is resolved. Dark Might for instance can be used and it occurs after a die roll.

So, yeah.

it's not that strong, since you actually need to roll an X *and* the hero needs to fail a test before...

It's a good combo, but circumstantial at best, specially since, if played right, dark charm will usually end up with a defeated hero, anyway (not necessarily the charmed one).

3 hours ago, ssorgatem said:

it's not that strong, since you actually need to roll an X *and* the hero needs to fail a test before...

Just to specify that this combo is not limited to Dark Charm ! any card that 'charms' a hero will work : Dark Host, Out of Darness, Possessive ( 😨 ) , ...

With this combo you are sure you card will work !
up to now should the OL roll an X he would have lost a card for nothing !
With this combo you are sure your card will always be effective ! and it's even better if an X is rolled as the hero is simply defeated whatever is health !

Now about using the Dark Fortune to try to force the X : 16% to obtain it if he didn't happen the first time ...
if I'm cornered and it's a all or nothing move I would try, else I prefer to keep the Dark Fortune to give 83% chance to a monster to avoid the X !

with this combo "Make no excuses " is clearly the card to have in this plot ... even before the Pins and Nedles !

Zarihell's plot deck is a powerful one as it is, one I've long ago decided not to employ.

I haven't played with Zerihell's plot deck before, but given that this combo is very cheesy and probably not intended, I would apply a simple house rule to it:

" When activating a monster during your turn , exhaust this card when a monster rolls an X."

This allows it to work as normal in all regular cases, but prevents its use during charm effects since the hero is not activated.

53 minutes ago, Charmy said:

I haven't played with Zerihell's plot deck before, but given that this combo is very cheesy and probably not intended, I would apply a simple house rule to it:

" When activating a monster during your turn , exhaust this card when a monster rolls an X."

This allows it to work as normal in all regular cases, but prevents its use during charm effects since the hero is not activated.

Just can't help balance patching... 😉

5 hours ago, Zaltyre said:

Just can't help balance patching... 😉

True! After playing the heck out of vanilla Descent, I'd been seeking a more tuned and competitive experience. I think the numerous issues with Lost Legends was the tipping point for me. And once I started balance tuning I haven't wanted to stop because its made my games that much more enjoyable... it is a little addictive :3

22 hours ago, Felin said:

Just to specify that this combo is not limited to Dark Charm ! any card that 'charms' a hero will work : Dark Host , Out of Darness, Possessive ( 😨 ) , ...

With this combo you are sure you card will work !
up to now should the OL roll an X he would have lost a card for nothing !
With this combo you are sure your card will always be effective ! and it's even better if an X is rolled as the hero is simply defeated whatever is health !

Now about using the Dark Fortune to try to force the X : 16% to obtain it if he didn't happen the first time ...
if I'm cornered and it's a all or nothing move I would try, else I prefer to keep the Dark Fortune to give 83% chance to a monster to avoid the X !

with this combo " Make no excuse s " is clearly the card to have in this plot ... even before the Pins and Nedles !

Still, Dark Host is a 3XP card *and* it nees the hero to have 3 infection tokens
Yes, the combo is very powerful, it's very costly to pull off too.

Now, with Possessive, that could be more of an issue. But I think the issue is not the interaction between Possessive and Make no excuses, but Possessive by itself, which is very powerful for a 1xp card.
It's still just a 16% chance, though, and it only happens after they kill your servant, which they can choose to simply ignore.

So still a powerful combo, but quite hard to pull off. I don't think it's troublesome as it is now.