I usually with fear of winter, only play one card as it is said in the text card, but since ambush is a keyword and as it is said in the rules and the faqs keyword effects with a point of initiation (such as ambush) cannot be canceled, can i play cards with the ambush keyword during this plot without that limit?

I suppose i was playing right, but i want to confirm it.

Thx for answers

Ambush means you can put a card into play from your hand (by paying the gold cost with influence). The plot doesn't cancel ambush itself it just says you can play or put into play from your hand only one card in this round. It doesn't matter how it happens. The limit remains. So you can't put a card into play with ambush if you have already played a card or put into play a card from your hand this round. You can bring out of shadow, however, as many cards as you like this round because the cards do not origin from your hand!

On a similar vein, is the playing of an event card "put into play from your hand?" (Forgive me is this is a silly question, but I'm a silly person)

goshdarnstud said:

Playing an event card from your hand counts as playing a card, yes.

And what about the duplicates? Can I "duplicate" one of my unique character and then play my only card allowed by Fear of Winter? or the duplicate counts toward the limit of this plot?

Playing a duplicate is still playing a card. It counts against Fear of Winter's limit.

And what about Darkstar ?

Let's say I have already played a card this round and Darkstar is discarded from my hand, while Fear of Winter is revealed.

The plot says that I cannot put Darkstar into play, so the card is discarded anyway, regardless of Darkstar's ability?

This situation actually came up during the MN Regionals in my match against Greg. We asked Nate and Nate said it still goes into play because it's the card's ability and not the player putting a card into play. In my case it was for the "House Dayne Reserves" but it appears Darkstar's ability has similar wording, so I'd expect the same ruling.

ASoIaFfan said:

Well, we're going to need to verify this because Nate and I figured out in discussion that Fear of Winter would block Darkstar/Reserves from coming into play. So he has answered this question two different ways.

(Personally, by the explanation given here, I'm guessing he forgot that Fear of Winter prevents putting into play from your hand, as well as playing.)

At the Regional, Nate told me that the Reserves ability was a "replacement" effect, and thus bypassed Fear of Winter. Instead of the card going to the discard pile, it instead goes into play.

Dobbler said:

Ah, but let's say I have a replacement effect that says "when a character would be killed, it is discarded instead." Could I then choose a "cannot be discarded" character for claim, have the replacement turn the kill into a discard and end up not losing a character since the character cannot be discarded - effectively sidestepping claim? Turns out, no. Because the character is "cannot be discarded" and "cannot" essentially means "don't even try," the "cannot be discarded" prevents the replacement effect from taking hold, the kill is never actually replaced, and the character ends up killed.

The same thing effectively happens in the Darkstar/Reserves replacement effect against Fear of Winter. The "cannot put more than one card into play" effect of the plot prevents the Darkstar/Reserves' card effects from ever replacing the claim, and the cards end up discarded. While a game effect like claim can bypass Fear of Winter, the card effect that replaces/changes the claim effect cannot.

Nate and I talked about this yesterday. He says he got caught up in the "claim effect" part of the equation in MN and forgot the discussion he and I had had where we worked out the "replacement effect" wouldn't actually resolve successfully. Darkstar and the Reserves do not bypass Fear of Winter. Expect to see the clarification in the next FAQ.

Yes, that would be something good to have clarified in the next official FAQ. Fortunately in my match against Greg it did not change the outcome but what if it had? That would have been a nasty blunder. This makes Fear of Winter even nastier than it already is, since it essentially negates the abilities of Darkstar and House Dayne Reserves in addition to its already potent "play one card for the round" limitation. So it's a way to get rid of those characters via intrigue claim for the round that Fear of Winter is active. Even though as a Martell player this weakens my options, I still like the plot.

ASoIaFfan said:

Note that it does not negate the abilities if you have not played/put into play your one card for the round at the time the intrigue claim takes place.

OK, thanks ktom for the explanation and more thanks for having clarified this point with Nate.

And yes, Fear of Winter is a really nasty plot, and, as a Targ or Martell player, I seldom enjoy seeing this plot revealed.

This plot, and Power of Blood, makes me more and more think about playing Margaery (A Sword in the Darkness) OOH.

The plot only restricts cards from your hand so surely if Darkstar is discarded from your deck his effect still works.

I usually play these rounds without putting cards into play so that I can use events if necessary, so having Darkstar in my hand actually hurts me as his effect is not optional!

OK, just to make sure, you can put as many cards from your hand into shadows when this plot is revealed, right? Because you aren't putting them in play or playing. You are putting them into shadows, right?

Staton said:

Not really. You can only put ONE card into shadows once this plot is revealed. FAQ 1.5 dixit.

Staton said:

In the last FAQ update the Shadows rules were changed such that putting cards into the Shadows is considered putting a card into play and/or Fear of Winter was errata to include putting cards into the Shadows. I forget and don't feel like checking the FAQ at the moment However, Fear of Winter does not restrict how many cards come out of the Shadows.

- EDIT - Didn't see the previous post....How come when you press "New" on the forums it fails to lead you to the newest post?

FATMOUSE said:

Just to be clear, putting cards into Shadows (from hand, during Marshalling by paying gold) is not considered putting a card into play. It is considered playing a card (from hand). And rules didn't changed - it is just clarification (Shadow rules already used this definition).

Just to add to this:

Is there any card from hand stuff we have not covered? Face down attachments is from the deck, and effects that are powered by discarding from your hand are not affected, correct? Now how about reveal effects that put the card into play from the deck? My assumption is as long as the card does not originate from or pass to the hand at any point in the transaction, its cool. Now the real kicker is something like the Baratheon plot that lets you play cards from the dead pile, or fields of ghiscar. I know this is classic but still something to consider, my view is that fear of winter applies to anything with the wording "as if in your hand" which both of these cards have (IIRC). It would have been simpler if Nate simply worded the restriction to entering play.

And what about Robert (Kings of the Sea) ?

If Robert Baratheon is the only King character in play, he gains: "Any Phase: Kneel Robert Baratheon to play an ""Any Phase"" event card from your discard pile as if you just played it from your hand. Then, shuffle that event card back into your deck."

I would say it is not affected by Fear of Winter because you play the event "from your discard" pile.

The "as if you just played it from your hand" is just indicating that you have to meet the same play restriction and choose the same targets as if the event was in your hand.

Is this right?

Comm said:

Well, you just said it yourself. The "as if you just played it from your hand" part indicates that you have to met the same play restrictions as if the event was in your hand. Fear of Winter represents a play restriction placed on the cards you play from your hand. If the events played from your discard pile through Robert's ability must meet the same play restrictions as event cards played from your hand, Fear of Winter affects them, too.

what about rusted sword? it does not speack about put into play or play it simply say attach it ...

zazzafa said:

That's an awfully fine hair you are trying to split.

When you use Rusted Sword's "attach" ability, the card starts in your hand (out of play) and ends up on the table (in play). So you have put it into play. If you haven't put it into play, it couldn't affect the card it is attached to or be actionable by other effects. So since the "attach" ability on Rusted Sword clearly puts the card into play from your hand, it counts toward the limit imposed by Fear of Winter.

just bumping this for another player.