Hi all,

I have long wanted to play an Elementalist in a RPG that can use all elements. It seems to me that Genesys might be the first RPG that could facilitate this happening! I don't understand why a Elementalist needs to be restricted to casting only 1 element, so I hope the below addresses this with a balanced approach.

With the free format of Spellcasting that is found in Genesys, I guess any spell caster can call themselves and Elementalist, and it really comes down to how they describe the spell cast, or how they use advantage.

Instead, I thought it should go to the next level and have some Talents that can be purchased to specialise in casting elemental spells. The first range of talents "Elemental Attunement" (plus Improved and Supreme) allow a spell caster to specialise in casting elemental spells. The last talent allows a caster to cast all 4 elements, but they don't receive quite the same bonuses as those focusing on 1 element only.

Elemental Attunement (Tier 1 Talent – use appropriate Magic skill to cast, setting dependent)

• Ability to draw on the elements (Air, Fire, Water, Earth) to cast spells
• Choose one element (Air, Fire, Water or Earth)
• Spells cast can ONLY be drawn from the elements (ie player must explain how the spell manifests from the elements)

• Spells cast with chosen element gain a Boost die
• Spells of the opposite element are not allowed to be cast
• Spells cast using the other 2 elements are cast with 2 Setback dice (or perhaps increase difficulty by one?)
• Spells cast that are not calling on the elements are also cast with 2 setback dice (or perhaps increase difficulty by one?)

Improved Elemental Attunement (Tier 3 Talent)

• Prerequisite - Elemental Attunement
• Difficulty reduced by one when casting elemental spells

Supreme Elemental Attunement (Tier 5 Talent)

• Prerequisite - Improved Elemental Attunement
• Caster gains an automatic Advantage when casting elemental spells

True Elementalist (Tier 1 Talent)

• Prerequisite - Elemental Attunement
• Allows the PC to cast spells from all 4 elements. The means the cast can add the Boost dice, as described in Elemental Attunement, to all the Elements.

think True Elementalist should only be a Tier 1 Talent as, after all, any spell caster can cast an elemental spell usually. The Talent only grants a Boost due to their focus. Elemental Attunement is also a prerequisite.

I would love to hear your feedback and thoughts! TIA.

Edits:

• added "Spells cast can ONLY be drawn from the elements (ie player must explain how the spell manifests from the elements)" in Elemental Attunement
• clarified the added Boost dice in True Elementalist

The Wheel of Time RPG by WotC using D20 system (and not ogl) was an RPG that could use all four classical elements, Fire, Water, Air,and Earth, + a fifth one : Spirit. Not surpirsing since the magic in the Wheel of Time books is based on those five elements only.

True Elementalist at Tier 1 should just remove Penalties/Remove the disallowance of the casting of opposite elements. Maintain a Setback for opposite elements until Expert Elementalist at Tier 3, and add the Boost at Tier 5 (Master Elementalist).

There's a specific 'elementalist' in the Lost Legends deck of Descent- so any Elementalist ideas would fit well in any Terrinoth games- there's also a suggestion from its cover art of dual-element characters (Shadar seems to be an earth + fire elementalist)

There's scope for adventures to give characters access to any elements that fit the combination of character, events and setting.

I'd picked up some hints of maybe some elemental links outside the norms of air/earth/fire/water for certain characters- there are some theory-based ideas (from pondering things we never got to see in Descent) weaved into the fan adventures I'm working on.

For Terrinoth the latest artwork seems to (unsurprisingly) associate orange flame with fire and green with earth So that could be used to work on some logical connections if you so wished.

Of course elementalist doesn't have to be limited to Terrinoth-set adventures, maybe other settings could have their own quite original and unique elemental aspects.

4 hours ago, AlanTheBothersome said:

True Elementalist at Tier 1 should just remove Penalties/Remove the disallowance of the casting of opposite elements. Maintain a Setback for opposite elements until Expert Elementalist at Tier 3, and add the Boost at Tier 5 (Master Elementalist).

Good feedback.

I think I would like to keep the Boost there, as what I didn't add into Elemental Attunement is that by taking the Talent the PC can draw magic ONLY from the elements. This restriction on spell types means they gain focus in elemental magic, hence the Boost. The idea is that this spellcaster focuses only on the elements.

I will edit the above to clarify.

Now that the EPG has been released, with a Elementalist talent included, I will revisit the above.

I still would like to see a Talent that removes the restriction to cast only one type of elemental spell. I think adding the restriction that any spell they cast can only be of the elements adds good balance.

5 hours ago, Andreievitch said:

I still would like to see a Talent that removes the restriction to cast only one type of elemental spell. I think adding the restriction that any spell they cast can only be of the elements adds good balance.

I feel that might cause another power imbalance. If...

1. An Elementalist can only cast spells of the elements,
   -and-
2. Improved Elementalist reduces the cost of casting elemental spells by one,

Then every spell you cast will have its difficulty reduced by one, meaning that for a mere 25XP (the cost of the two Tier 1 Talents and the Tier 3 Talent), the Elementalist can cast any spell any other mage can cast, as long as they can describe how the elements are helping them do it... and they can cast those spells at a reduced cost. If that's the case, why would anyone be anything but and Elementalist?

20 minutes ago, Simon Retold said:

why would anyone be anything but and Elementalist?

in a "fictious fantasy world" this would differentiate/balance against "hedge magic" and other "lesser" spell users, with probably other major spellcasters enjoying other themed benefits? (me remembers speciality priests from the Forgotten Relams)

How about:

True Elementalist (Tier 2 Talent)

• Prerequisite - Elementalist
• Removes the restriction from the Tier 1 Talent "Elementalist" of not being able to cast the other three effects.

The other option is:

True Elementalist (Tier 1 Talent)

• Prerequisite - Elementalist
• Removes the restriction from the Tier 1 Talent Elementalist of not being able to cast the other three effects, however the spell caster must purchase additional versions of the Elementalist Talent to have access to the spell effect.

This way the PC would need to spend 25xp to be able to cast all 4 elements.

I think option 1 isn't too overbalanced, as this would allow access sooner, at a lower XP cost (i.e. 20xp as you would need the 2 x Tier 1 Talents to get access to the Tier 2 Talent), and option 2 means they would miss out on a lot of other Talent options.

hmm ... my re-interpretation:

True Elementalist (Tier 2 Talent)

• Prerequisite - Elementalist
• Allows the spellcaster to use the other elemental effects in his spells, but for those castings has to downgrade his dicepool once.

True Elementalist (Improved) (Tier 4 Talent)

• Prerequisite - True Elementalist
• Allows the spellcaster to use the other elemental effects in his spells without downgrading his dicepool.

True Elementalist (Supreme) (Tier 5 Talent)

• Prerequisite - True Elementalist (Improved)
• For any spells that have elemental effects, the spellcaster may upgrade his dicepool once.

7 hours ago, Terefang said:

hmm ... my re-interpretation:

True Elementalist (Tier 2 Talent)

• Prerequisite - Elementalist
• Allows the spellcaster to use the other elemental effects in his spells, but for those castings has to downgrade his dicepool once.

True Elementalist (Improved) (Tier 4 Talent)

• Prerequisite - True Elementalist
• Allows the spellcaster to use the other elemental effects in his spells without downgrading his dicepool.

True Elementalist (Supreme) (Tier 5 Talent)

• Prerequisite - True Elementalist (Improved)
• For any spells that have elemental effects, the spellcaster may upgrade his dicepool once.

Way to expensive for what they do. Seriously a T2 Talent to have the possibility to downgrade the dice pool and a T4 talent to remove just that downgrade without any other advantage then a T5 talent to gain a single upgrade of the dice pool, something that can be done using a story point ??? That isn't worth spending so much xp for almost nothing. The elemental effects aren't such game breaker that you must waste so much XP just for using all of them in your spells.

Imo Andreievitch True Elementalist Talents are both a lot more balanced.

38 minutes ago, WolfRider said:

Way to expensive for what they do. Seriously a T2 Talent to have the possibility to downgrade the dice pool and a T4 talent to remove just that downgrade without any other advantage then a T5 talent to gain a single upgrade of the dice pool, something that can be done using a story point ??? That isn't worth spending so much xp for almost nothing. The elemental effects aren't such game breaker that you must waste so much XP just for using all of them in your spells.

the T2 talent trades the added difficulty for pool downgrade -- eg: a fire elementalist would get burn quality for free, but has to downgrade once for a (free) lightning effect.
# refer to "Flames of Kellos (T2)" which is more limiting
# downgrades take away the chances for crits/triumphs

the T4 talent allows one free elemental effect from any elemental type
# refer to "Congenial (T3)" which requires strain and is non-combat
# i am a little bit unsure here, could be dropped to T3 because of the prerequisite

the T5 talents allows you to upgrade your dicepool wherever you use an elemental effect
# refer to "Intense Focus (T5)" that requires you to spend strain
# upgrades are actually better, because you get chance for triumph and slightly more advantages/successes
# could be dropped to T4 because of the prerequisite

what are your suggestions ?

Agree with @WolfRider here is that the talents while thematic is way to expensive for their mechanical benefit. Allthough the base talent is not so bad its more the t4/t5 talents that are off.

The first one is actually not that bad. Its a very little setback to get 1 downgrade. If it was 1 difficulty higher it would make more sense in terms of the rest of the magic talents. If i was GM i would prob give it a difficulty upgrade since your risking angering the elements by mixing them but that just me in short would have it add 1 difficulty if other elements be used. The added difficulty also limits the amount of elements that can be mixed so there is still some penalty for specializing in a element compared to a non specialized caster.

Now the T4 at its core just remove a downgrade. IF its a pure downgrade from a yellow to a green the actual probability of success is not affected that much. Consider other options for a spellcaster at T4 which is mainly improved signature spell and then it has to present a choice between these so would you as a player pick this over improved signature spell ? or even consider it. Also the effect of the talent not that interesting.

Sidenote: Congenial in Starwars can be used in more ways. Its a ranked talent lets you both upgrade difficulty defensively and downgrade difficulty if your making a check.

Again the T5 talent. So upgrades are not better in terms of success compared to a extra die. So dedication would always be a better choice ofc. unless you already had dedication for your casting attribute.

So for suggestions. Again this will depend on the theme and nature of magic in the setting. There are many variables in a skill check beside difficulty upgrades and downgrades ill list some.

• Improved could add a boost (or more) if elements are mixed
• Improved could add exploding mechanic if more then one element was introduced either like the supers so if you roll a triumph roll again or re skin the Flash of Insight talent from ROT so a triumph is rolled add 2 boost die extra. I know its only a T2 talent but when applied to magic should justify the cost.
• Supreme could lower the cost to trigger something/effects if more then one element was present or lower strain cost.
• Supreme could choose 1 more element to benefit from the Elementalist talents.

Just suggestions to make the talents at bit more interesting.

As I said I like the True Elementalist 1st proposal from @Andreievitch . It's well balanced for its price. I'd just add that each more effect used at the same time, either double strain cost for each effect OR add one setback dice for each effect to a max of 4 black dice.

I always prefer to add Black / Blue dice or upgrade to Yellow / Red than to add or remove purple / green dice to raise the difficulty. And I like for player to have a choice between drawing from their body resources (aka spends strain) and putting themselves in danger or making thing more difficult with setback dice. It's the choice a character makes that makes him / her an hero and not the rules of the game.

I think Improved True Elementalist should be a T3 talent like Improved Parry and Improved Reflect in Star Wars FFG. And like both these talent it should grant a powerful effect on a Triumph or 3 advantages. But I don't know enough about Elementalist Magic to think of one.

For Supreme True Elementalist being T5 is fine but it must be more powerful than simply giving an upgrade to one dice. I was think about something like : can mix all 4 element in the same spell without suffering setback dice and by spending only 1 strain.

It's a T5 talent it must be very powerful. With how Genesys manage Talents, buying T5 talents is very expensive in XPs so I think it's unlikely a character'll have many of them. Then each one should really gives an edge.

Ok. Here is another take, keeping Elementalist talent in mind from the EPG.

True Elementalist

• Tier: 1
• Activation: Passive
• Ranked: No
• Prerequisites: None

True Elementalist grants a spell caster 1 Boost dice when casting a spell with any elemental descriptor (ie Fire, Water, Earth, Air and associated effects). Additionally, the spell allows the player to choose the Elementalist Talent more than once, lifting the restriction (ie cannot be used) for each element effect chosen.

The above allows only a Boost (so not too empowering) for only elemental type effects (so not every spell as it is elemental effects only) and opens up great addons for higher tiers (such as suggested above by @Terefang ).

The lifting of the Elementalist talent restriction means they can get those benefits for each element type chosen, at the xp cost of the additional talents. Its not stacking the benefit of the Elementalist talent, so the Ranked: No still applies, and instead it is allowing the payer to spend 50xp to get something along the lines of (if they should choose):

• True Elementalist
• Elementalist (Fire)
• Elementalist (Water)
• Elementalist (Earth)
• Elementalist (Air)

The player may not want to add the 4 Elementalist talents though.

refer CRB p196: your talent might be required to be Tier 2

• adding 1-2 boost to a non-combat action is usually Tier 1, with combat actions usually having one Tier more.
• in addition to the boost effect it also lifts a restriction