3 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I've seen it; it looks good!

Well, here it is again, anyways!!

And I think it's totally awesomesauce that I have had a {p}repainted REPUBLIC corvette in my collection for 5 years already!

2 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, here it is again, anyways!!

And I think it's totally awesomesauce that I have had a {p}repainted REPUBLIC corvette in my collection for 5 years already!

21 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, here it is again, anyways!!

And I think it's totally awesomesauce that I have had a {p}repainted REPUBLIC corvette in my collection for 5 years already!

Yeah, I admit it looks pretty snazzy and awesome. 😉

Only thing I'd recommend is a good wash. Doesn't need it really, but may help.

1 hour ago, Shadowshand said:

Only thing I'd recommend is a good wash.

What??

I'll get the boys out there with more wax and a clean chamois.

With the Queen having all glinty-silver ships, it's hard to look good parked next to her.

22 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

What??

I'll get the boys out there with more wax and a clean chamois.

With the Queen having all glinty-silver ships, it's hard to look good parked next to her.

As someone who also prefers the look of shinies, I will say that if it's a super thin wash or it's painted directly into the shadows, it doesn't have to make it look terribly dirty; it just makes the details pop.

But unfortunately, the art of perfecting the wash is not something I'm an authority on at all. I'm quite amateur at painting and only got halfway through my Imperial Assault collection (though I've done historical minis before). I typically give up in the middle of projects due to time constraints.

3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Missed a couple listed on the C-ROC product page that haven't been spoiled yet. IG-RM Droids being one.

Yep, I was just covering the Tantive spoils vs unknowns. The Raider has Ordnance Teams and Tubes, Needa, and three more title... MOAR articles, please!!

34 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

But unfortunately, the art of perfecting the wash is not something I'm an authority on at all.

Yeah, I've rarely been happy with my results, which is why I seldom do it.

5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, here it is again, anyways!!

And I think it's totally awesomesauce that I have had a {p}repainted REPUBLIC corvette in my collection for 5 years already!

It could also serve as Santa Claus/Coca-Cola Christmas truck Those red, white and golden colors really gives me the Christmas feeling!

I've got a Raider with a blood stripe down it's dorsal spine and a CR90 with the blue repaint both ready to go. All with painted engines too. Going to have to try blood striping the Gozanti pair. And rusting the GR-75.

Super excited to see the weapons and action options.

2 hours ago, Jedu said:

It could also serve as Santa Claus/Coca-Cola Christmas truck Those red, white and golden colors really gives me the Christmas feeling!

Nothing screams Christmas like a surprise visit of the Republic Judiciary Department in a heavily armed corvette. Hope you were not on the naughty list!

14 hours ago, MegaSilver said:

Btw guys Raymus basically allows your range 0-1 ships to carry focus tokens into the next round after the huge ship is destroyed.

It's the same ruling timing for Tavson + E baffle.

Where / What is the Tavson + E Baffle ruling? I couldn't find it in FAQ. Not saying its not there, just saying I couldn't find it. And it might make my entire argument moot.

Initially I agreed with your assessment, that the focus happens at end of turn. But then I thought about it a bit (read overthinking) and now see Raymus as follows:

First of all, its 2 different sentences, ie 2 different abilities that (appear) to both go onto the queue at the same time. ie. "after you are destroyed".

But I see the sequence as playing out as follows:

Ship is destroyed (takes damage >= to hull).

Rules ref p9

So we get to the end of the initiative step, and the game state is that the Tantive is destroyed, and we are "immediately before it's removed".

Ability one (focus) goes onto the queue.

Ability two (removal timing change) goes onto the queue.

At this point (because it is a Queue and not a Stack) the game still thinks it is just before the Tantive gets removed, and the Focus distribution happens.

Only now does the removal timing get changed to end of the End Phase. (which basically is there to allow the Tantive to still take shots as if it was still alive).

Now (and this is where things gets interesting and I KNOW i'm wrong, but I'm either missing something or FFG rules writers didn't think everything through) skip forward to the End Phase.

Tantive is about to be removed.

So once again we find ourselves "immediately before the ship is removed".

So all ships in 0-1 gets ANOTHER focus that they carry over to the next round (as you suggested).

And finally the ship gets removed.

So.... we have 3 scenarios:

1) The focus is distributed on the original "immediately before removed" timing.

2) The focus is distributed on the changed "immediately before removed" timing.

3) The focus is distributed on both.

And discus!!!

Problem is with the use of words "immediately before", and then after things happening, changing the timing of when "immediately before" takes place.

1 hour ago, Bort said:

Where / What is the Tavson + E Baffle ruling? I couldn't find it in FAQ. Not saying its not there, just saying I couldn't find it. And it might make my entire argument moot.

Initially I agreed with your assessment, that the focus happens at end of turn. But then I thought about it a bit (read overthinking) and now see Raymus as follows:

First of all, its 2 different sentences, ie 2 different abilities that (appear) to both go onto the queue at the same time. ie. "after you are destroyed".

But I see the sequence as playing out as follows:

Ship is destroyed (takes damage >= to hull).

Rules ref p9

So we get to the end of the initiative step, and the game state is that the Tantive is destroyed, and we are "immediately before it's removed".

Ability one (focus) goes onto the queue.

Ability two (removal timing change) goes onto the queue.

At this point (because it is a Queue and not a Stack) the game still thinks it is just before the Tantive gets removed, and the Focus distribution happens.

Only now does the removal timing get changed to end of the End Phase. (which basically is there to allow the Tantive to still take shots as if it was still alive).

Now (and this is where things gets interesting and I KNOW i'm wrong, but I'm either missing something or FFG rules writers didn't think everything through) skip forward to the End Phase.

Tantive is about to be removed.

So once again we find ourselves "immediately before the ship is removed".

So all ships in 0-1 gets ANOTHER focus that they carry over to the next round (as you suggested).

And finally the ship gets removed.

So.... we have 3 scenarios:

1) The focus is distributed on the original "immediately before removed" timing.

2) The focus is distributed on the changed "immediately before removed" timing.

3) The focus is distributed on both.

And discus!!!

Problem is with the use of words "immediately before", and then after things happening, changing the timing of when "immediately before" takes place.

Long discussion there, saying it works. No clarification from FFG.

21 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Long discussion there, saying it works. No clarification from FFG.

Ok. But I'm missing how Tavson + Baffle have anything to do with Raymus.

Unless you mean the fact that Focus tokens can be generated "after" the remove Focus token step in the End phase, and they stay over till next turn. In which case sure. I agree.

But that doesn't clarify (for or against) the timing problem as I broke it down.

There has been a lot of Huge ship stuff dropped lately. Almost too much to grasp at once. I do like how the CR-90 had it's main guns 9n the side to keep it as a broadside ship. Nice counterpoint to the up the guys Raider.

I like the title that will let you dock 2 ships. I think 2 B-wings will be best. Those ships are great in Huge battles, but aren't fast. Keep them as a bodyguard for the Cr-90.

Jianna's Light is really the Low Energy indicator that will always be flashing with that ship.

Hotshot Gunner is going to be good in Huge games. Han Solo, too, especially with turbo laser.

15 hours ago, Vykk Draygo said:

I’m quite bummed myself on the republic content included after looking through the conversion again, but I don’t figure FFG will leave a lack of republic and separatists crew and commanders for long.....so new huge ships incoming soon???

One can only think they have something in the works for Republic with the lack of content for them. Maybe a new ship or an upgrade pack in the future

For those put off by this, look at the upgrade cards and ask yourself if you would really use them in a list? Many special upgrades just aren't worth it unless a very specific game. Generic upgrades are affordable and you will be fine with them for now.

7 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

As someone who also prefers the look of shinies, I will say that if it's a super thin wash or it's painted directly into the shadows, it doesn't have to make it look terribly dirty; it just makes the details pop.

But unfortunately, the art of perfecting the wash is not something I'm an authority on at all. I'm quite amateur at painting and only got halfway through my Imperial Assault collection (though I've done historical minis before). I typically give up in the middle of projects due to time constraints.

A black wash and then a repaint of the top will just make the recessed areas darker. It will show contrast better. Same for "edging" with a lighter color. Doesn't have to make it look used, but will show the detail better.

4 hours ago, Bort said:

So.... we have 3 scenarios:

1) The focus is distributed on the original "immediately before removed" timing.

2) The focus is distributed on the changed "immediately before removed" timing.

3) The focus is distributed on both.

And discus!!!

And now, in my mind, there is the Focus Distribution Team upgrade tossing green tokens off a CR-90 to fellow ships. . .

2 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I do like how the CR-90 had it's main guns 9n the side to keep it as a broadside ship. Nice counterpoint to the up the guys Raider.

It's a bit of an odd one. I can see exactly what they were doing, and it's obviously meant to play differently from the Raider, which is good.

But the Armada CR-90 is primarily a front arc ship. It has a bigger front arc than sides (unlike the Neb-B, which is all side arc) and throws more dice out the front.

What's strange is that X-Wing CR-90 still has big front and back arcs and small side arcs (though outside the Raider getting a full front half arc, the arcs seem to be standard across all huge bases), it just doesn't through anything natively out the front.

I guess you could make the case that the Armada CR-90 comes with a X-Wing turbolaser upgrade equipped, but the Armada CR-90 still has a turbolaser slot.... Maybe the difference is that the X-Wing upgrade physically adds the gun (and therefore the 'forward' dice) while the Armada slot just represents an upgrade to the existing equipped weapons? After all, one of the Armada upgrades it can take is H9 Turbolasers.... which it's supposed to be equipped with by default anyway.

This really isn't an issue at all. Just a bit of a strange inconsistency between how FFG see the ship in Armada and how they see it in X-Wing that my brain needs to find a justification for to be happy.

Something else I've just realised is going to bug me way more than it should: the CR90 and Raider have the exact same actions (though the CR90's co-ordinate is red), but the Raider's action bar goes focus, reinforce, lock, co-ordinate, jam while the CR90's goes focus lock, reinforce, co-ordinate, jam. Why are reinforce and lock swapped between the two, FFG? Why!?

Another observation comparing the two. The CR90 is 2 hull and 1 shield lighter than the Raider, but has 1 more energy. This mean more bonus attacks but probably a slightly cheaper base chassis. Given that the CR90's dial looks really good, for a huge ship (5 straight, blue 2 banks, all 4 speeds of bank), it's entirely possible that it's better than the Raider's (which I don't believe we've seen yet).

That means that these two ships are keeping with the Armada philosophy of Rebel cap ships being more fragile, cheaper and faster with slightly better ability use and very good crew to compensate, compared with the Imperials. Which is also the exact opposite of the philosophies for the fighters themselves. Empire are the fast glass cannons when it comes to fighters, but the slow brawlers in capital ships,; Rebels are the opposite. It's going to be really interesting to see how that all comes out in listbuilding. Will packing too much onto an expensive Raider ruin the numerical advantage Imps usually enjoy with their fighters? Will Rebels going cheaper on cap ships compensate for the expensive fighters and let them bring one or two extra B-Wings to balance out?

23 hours ago, pyoinator said:

They recently ruled in the RR or FAQ or something that abilities that trigger "after a ship is destroyed" happen when the ship is removed from play. Presumably to nerf TA-175 from how people had been playing him, but this also kinda breaks Raymus from how I think they intended him to work. In this case, the focus would be passed out in the end phase, after round tokens are removed, since this ship is removed in the end phase.

EDIT: see rules reference screenshot on destroyed ships:

The thing is, they are both triggers that resolve immediately before the ship is removed. The second one then stops that removal, but you’ve already given out the focus tokens.

For a cleaner game, that line really should be restated as “destroyed ships are not removed until after all triggers that result from them being destroyed resolve,” or similar.

4 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

focus, reinforce, lock, co-ordinate, jam while the CR90's goes focus lock, reinforce,

Curse you for pointing this out

17 hours ago, Bort said:

Ok. But I'm missing how Tavson + Baffle have anything to do with Raymus.

Unless you mean the fact that Focus tokens can be generated "after" the remove Focus token step in the End phase, and they stay over till next turn. In which case sure. I agree.

But that doesn't clarify (for or against) the timing problem as I broke it down.

You asked

19 hours ago, Bort said:

Where / What is the Tavson + E Baffle ruling? I couldn't find it in FAQ. Not saying its not there, just saying I couldn't find it

so I provided a reference I know. As with many doubtful rules interactions FFG's reaction occus at glacial speed (remember the completely clear RAI interaction between Yushin and Proach/Quinn, but it RAW not working. FFG's answer took months, rendering Yushin unusable. When the ruling finally came (yes it works as RAI), gas clouds already hade made them superflous) - so we still do not know how it is to be ruled, after >9months.

On Raymus

I would think 1).

Focus token effect. Pause.

New sentence, time removal change.

3) would require a kind of feedback loop. Same effect, same cause at different timing. Other unlimited game effects like Han, Boba, Sinker etc have same effect, different cause (different attacks, different rerolls e.g. asteroid hit, bomb, attack). Normally FFG rules against feedback loops, exactly same effect with exactly same cause once again normally not works.

However, I cannot provide a reference for this, I am not at home.

This should be asked over on the Rules question subsection.

1 hour ago, Managarmr said:

You asked

so I provided a reference I know. As with many doubtful rules interactions FFG's reaction occus at glacial speed (remember the completely clear RAI interaction between Yushin and Proach/Quinn, but it RAW not working. FFG's answer took months, rendering Yushin unusable. When the ruling finally came (yes it works as RAI), gas clouds already hade made them superflous) - so we still do not know how it is to be ruled, after >9months.

Thank you, and sorry. Didn't mean to sound snippy or anything. The original wording @MegaSilver used made it sound like some official FAQ answer to me.

1 hour ago, Managarmr said:

I would think 1).

Focus token effect. Pause.

New sentence, time removal change.

3) would require a kind of feedback loop. Same effect, same cause at different timing. Other unlimited game effects like Han, Boba, Sinker etc have same effect, different cause (different attacks, different rerolls e.g. asteroid hit, bomb, attack). Normally FFG rules against feedback loops, exactly same effect with exactly same cause once again normally not works.

However, I cannot provide a reference for this, I am not at home.

This should be asked over on the Rules question subsection.

Basically the queue lost some "precognition" of what is coming in the recent changes. Previously we could declare (for example) an ensnare, knowing that the ship will have a tractor token when the time comes. Or we could declare Old Teroch's ability, knowing that we will later (but still technically in the same time window) tractor an enemy ship into range using Ketsu. Now none of this works. So, since the queue doesn't know what's coming it doesn't know that the ship removal timing is going to change, even though we as players do know.

I'm also leaning more towards (1) as i listed them. I.e. Focus happens on the original initiative removal before the actual removal change happens.

BUT interestingly since its 2 abilities on the card, both with the same timing, the controlling player can actually choose which order to put them onto the queue. Right? Unless there is a rule somewhere that states that abilities have to go onto the queue in the same sequence they are written on the card.

Ironically they could have made it more obvious by making it one convoluted sentence instead of two separate abilities.

In other words you can actually choose between (1) and (2) by placing them onto the queue in a different order.

And yup, I agree that there is some weird feedback loop effect required for the Focus to happen twice. Like I said, I'm pretty certain it shouldn't work, but I can't figure out why/why not.

But now if we go for scenario (2) how does this actually work.

We put the removal timing change effect on the queue first, and then the focus effect.

So the removal timing change happens, and then the focus effect can no longer happen, because the ship is no longer considered to be in the "immediately before the ship is removed" state.

But now we get to the actual removal at the end of the End Phase. How do we get the focus effect on the queue without the same feedback loop?

Uuurgh... Look. I'm just confused, because I feel there are arguments for all options.

Maybe I should move this to the rules section to get some other non-epic people on board.