So, here's my background ...

- I don't have a war table of my own.
- I previously played Descent 2nd Edition and Imperial Assault, but both of those games have had a soft discontinuation from FFG ... which is sad since I liked that quasi-competitive nature of those dungeon crawlers, and there doesn't seem to be a good replacement
- I've refrained from jumping into wargaming prior because of rules ugliness (i.e. not ease of use)
- However, I do play X-Wing and find that one somewhat enjoyable (scum and rebels, eventually CIS)

How does Legion fare? More to reframe the question ...

• without a landscape crafts war table, is it fun to play with improvised environs? (books, pitchers, etc)
• how much money would I have to sink in before I can really start to have fun? (i.e. Imperial Assault was core box only, but XWing ya kinda need at least 2 players with a full squadron to get the proper experience)
• how user friendly is the gameplay flow? Is it like XWing where most everything you need is on the individual cards ... or more like other war games where you need the 80 page book in your hand?

Any info appreciated!

To answer your 3 questions directly...

1. While having specially crafted terrain is fun, it's hardly nessesary by any stretch. I've played on books and boxes plenty of times and had a blast, plus the core set even comes with a set of 8 barricades that serve as heavy cover that units can shoot over to help with scatter terrain.

2. I would say Legion is similar to X-wing in this regard. The core box absolutely gives you enough to play the game and have a fun time doing it, but the standard is just about double the points the core box comes with. The most economic way to get the full experience is to buy 2 core sets, which are like $60 on amazon right now so $120 would vet you two 800pt armies. That said, there is also a different format created by Imperial Academy (I think) that uses a 500pt format that makes for shorter, but still fun games. If you went that route you would only have to get, say, an extra unit for each faction to make up about 100pts, though paying something like $40 is pretty close to the $60 needed for a second core set anyway.

3. This is... Harder to say... The rules for Legion are somewhat complicated (comes with the territory of being a wargame) but I would say from personal experience that it is pretty darn friendly to new players. I tried to play Warhammer 40k before picking up Legion and I found it to be a confusing mess to try and learn, while Legion does a pretty good job of teaching you the game with the "Learn to Play" book that comes in the core set. As you get more expansions that have new rules to them you may have to break out the rules reference now and then to check how something works, but all in all rounds move bery smoothly and you learn very quickly the steps of the round and what your units can do.

And for some other added info, if you are worried about things not being narritive, FFG have released (and are releasing) terrain sets that come with scenario cards that give some story to the battles you have with your opponent. That could be sorta what you would be interested in, but they are likely still much less narrative than what you are used to with Imperial Assult. The cards can be found online though, so you can read them and see what they're about.

Also, if you're hesitant to jump in, for just $20 on Steam you can buy a game called Tabletop Simulator where you can play the Legion mod to try things out. It is an astoundingly good mod that will let you play with 800pt armies and all the different expansions, with thematic terrain, all for free. Would highly recommend giving it a try on there if you have a computer. There is even a button to set up a tutorial game like in tge "Learn to Play" guide, which is also there page for page in the mod.

Hope this helps, and hope you end up liking it!

6 hours ago, Xclbr1 said:

To answer your 3 questions directly...

1. While having specially crafted terrain is fun, it's hardly nessesary by any stretch. I've played on books and boxes plenty of times and had a blast, plus the core set even comes with a set of 8 barricades that serve as heavy cover that units can shoot over to help with scatter terrain.

2. I would say Legion is similar to X-wing in this regard. The core box absolutely gives you enough to play the game and have a fun time doing it, but the standard is just about double the points the core box comes with. The most economic way to get the full experience is to buy 2 core sets, which are like $60 on amazon right now so $120 would vet you two 800pt armies. That said, there is also a different format created by Imperial Academy (I think) that uses a 500pt format that makes for shorter, but still fun games. If you went that route you would only have to get, say, an extra unit for each faction to make up about 100pts, though paying something like $40 is pretty close to the $60 needed for a second core set anyway.

3. This is... Harder to say... The rules for Legion are somewhat complicated (comes with the territory of being a wargame) but I would say from personal experience that it is pretty darn friendly to new players. I tried to play Warhammer 40k before picking up Legion and I found it to be a confusing mess to try and learn, while Legion does a pretty good job of teaching you the game with the "Learn to Play" book that comes in the core set. As you get more expansions that have new rules to them you may have to break out the rules reference now and then to check how something works, but all in all rounds move bery smoothly and you learn very quickly the steps of the round and what your units can do.

And for some other added info, if you are worried about things not being narritive, FFG have released (and are releasing) terrain sets that come with scenario cards that give some story to the battles you have with your opponent. That could be sorta what you would be interested in, but they are likely still much less narrative than what you are used to with Imperial Assult. The cards can be found online though, so you can read them and see what they're about.

Also, if you're hesitant to jump in, for just $20 on Steam you can buy a game called Tabletop Simulator where you can play the Legion mod to try things out. It is an astoundingly good mod that will let you play with 800pt armies and all the different expansions, with thematic terrain, all for free. Would highly recommend giving it a try on there if you have a computer. There is even a button to set up a tutorial game like in tge "Learn to Play" guide, which is also there page for page in the mod.

Hope this helps, and hope you end up liking it!

I agree with everything you said, except your third point. Legion has a lot of rules that were borrowed from X-Wing and other FFG games. This includes Suppression, which acts a lot like Stress. Instead of ships Legion contains Units, which would be the same as any military unit. Every unit in Legion comes with a card that explains any abilities with simple reminder text as well as stats which is also similar to X-Wing with upgrades that can be purchased as part of its point based system. Where Legion and X-Wing differ is that your movement is not hidden and each player takes turns moving one unit each, until all units in your army have activated, then you repeat for 5 more rounds after the first. Legion is an objective based game where even if you opponent has every unit left, and you only have one, you can still win the game. If Objectives do not give enough narrative, there are also free Operations that you can download from the Legion web page . If you want to learn more, you can download the Learn to Play Guide , which is also free, and it will explain everything in easy to understand terms. The Learn to Play rule book is 32 pages long, but has lots of pictures and about the last 10 pages are just fluff about the “hobby” aspect of the game, so it’s not a hard read.

The cheapest way to get the full 800 point per side experience, is 2 core sets and any 2 rebel & imperial expansions. If cost is a concern all 4 of those expansions can be the $12 heroes. For reasons regarding the rules, don't buy more than 1 commander for each side (yet). You can fit 1-2 commanders per army but the starter box comes with one.

The commanders are:

• Leia
• Han
• Jyn Erso
• Veers
• Palpatine
• Krennic

Plus a low level commander in each $20 specialist pack. Though that commander is so cheap, for the rebels at least, it would leave them stretching to try and hit 800 points.

Then there are "operatives", of which you could fit 0-2 per army in your initial collection:

• Chewbacca
• Sabine Wren
• Boba Fett
• Bossk

You can also play the free published small missions with one core set for awhile.

As for the crafted wargame table... most people can make that for free. Just throw a blanket, tablecloth, or piece of fabric, in a natural color like green or brown, over your table. Add some ovals of blue paper for rough terrain "ponds", some green paper ovals with a handful of twigs and gravel on them for light cover "bushes", and a few big rocks to block line of sight. Upturned opaque tubs and bowls can sometimes make great buildings to hide behind too.

You will find this website useful:

https://tabletopadmiral.com/legion/

Painting is fun and easy. If you are on a tight budget you can use that 50 cent craft paint like Apple Barrel when you are starting out.

All unit specific rules or keywords are on the cards so you can see what they do there. No rule book needed aside from knowing the general rules of how to play.

As most have said, you don’t need “real” terrain or a war table. Just imagination will work for that. I knew I was buying Legion for months before the game came out so I had the luxury of time to produce terrain bits at home (if you have space for it, and you decide you like Legion, highly recommend looking into terrain tutor on YouTube to get ideas of how to make inexpensive terrain).

For minis you can play a few games off the core set only using the missions online, but at the end of the day you’ll want more. Double core is the most dollar efficient way to do this. It’s not mandatory if you really want unit variety in your army, but you’ll be spending more over time to build up forces without it.

I started as a “one of each minimum” guy, but I abandoned that back in December because it wasn’t tenable for me. I now just buy what excites me personally or what I want to paint, etc. I share this so you don’t feel obligated to buy everything in order to be able to play.

Terrain is very important, but literally anything can be terrain. Fight over the library books or use the toaster as cover; works as well as my arts and crafts time desert buildings. I have a similar background, as I came from X-Wing, and Legion is the my first true table top war game. I personally consider Legion to be the vastly superior game, and think its easier to pick up than X-Wing. There might be more rules, but everything isn't so precise, and its a bit more forgiving in that you don't have to constantly be worried about running your ships off the man, into one another, or into asteroids.

My advise would be to try to get a demo game in with a local group, if there is one, and see if the game appeals to you. Most players I've met are super happy to do so. If that's not an option, you'll have to either try TTS, or take the plunge and pick up a core set. While more expensive than X-Wing's core set, you're also getting more, and what you'll be getting is a fair chunk of your initial army. After playing a couple of games with it, you can decide if you want to really take the plunge or not.

thanks a ton for all the feedback!

I do paint my own minis, so that aspect also appeals to me (given FFG's usual sculpt quality is on display with these varied minis).

There's a couple wargame shops nearby, so I'll ask them if they have a jump-in game night. thanks for that tip. ^^ I'll also give it a shot on TTS (do have that)

14 minutes ago, thinkbomb said:

I do paint my own minis, so that aspect also appeals to me (given FFG's usual sculpt quality is on display with these varied minis).

These make great Star Wars buildings. Molded in "Mos Eisely Tan", they don't have any raised logos or writing, and the lip around the edge is perfectly flat. Turn it upside down on your table and it's under $2 for a Star Wars house:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Project-Source-6-5-in-x-6-5-in-Disposable-Paint-Tray/3371206

Some of the other tan paint trays this links to at the bottom, have funky textured areas to drag a brush across, of flat areas to lay a brush. These make great Star Wars buildings too, as "comm arrays", "solar generators", and what have you.

If you get tired of them being plain colored, spray paint them black (or dark grey or brown) and wait 24 hours. Then put masking tape doors and windows on them, and spray paint them in lighter color of your choice. Wait an hour and peel off the tape. Now your buildings have doors and windows. Drydrush the corners off-white for a weathered look.

A Legion battlefield is supposedly 3x6 ft. Starting out, for each square foot, you'll want at least one piece of terrain. That's an average, there can be more and less dense parts of the board. So your barricades from two core sets count as two pieces of terrain. So if you need 18 pieces of terrain, add 6 of these $2 buildings to have a convincing city, make up the rest with blue and green paper ovals for rough terrain and light cover.

Or for better looking light cover, use brown paper ovals, with a couple pieces of crumpled up green paper bushes on them.

Oh. And don't forget to rummage through the trash for weird styrofoam shapes. Ie, free scifi buildings.

Another thing you can do if you’re looking for terrain on the cheap...

1. Take said free styrofoam packaging

2. Cut it up into rocky chunks.

3. Hot glue them in odd piles on an old CD.

3.5 (optional) - use filler (drywall spackle) on the cd next to the rocks to get a textured feel. Let dry for 24 hours.

4. Spray paint the lot, then paint the base ground whatever color you want for the board and greys for the rocks

Presto, easy rock piles.

It's also worth mentioning that a game can be played on a 3'x3' surface, so a typical kitchen table works just fine.

I would not have bought into Legion if I didn't have at least a half-dozen friends who were prepared to buy in as well, and I believe this to be the number one consideration before buying into any wargame. I don't think it's enough for one person to have the game and share; part of the fun is seeing the paint schemes and army combinations that your friends create.

Regarding your other concerns:

I wouldn't want to play the game without terrain that at least attempts to look 'real.' Immersion is part of the experience.

I would estimate $300 to be an absolute minimum buy in to enjoy the game for a while. You want terrain, paint, and additional units to avoid monotony. The legion core alone will not provide more than one or two satisfying games. Pretty sure I've spent at least twice that even with a friend supplying terrain.

It's neither the most nor least complicated game on the market. You will have to refer to the rules reference frequently; My friends and I have been playing since it release and we still have to check up occasionally and new rules are added with each wave.

2 hours ago, Bobmc said:

I would estimate $300 to be an absolute minimum buy in to enjoy the game for a while. You want terrain, paint, and additional units to avoid monotony. The legion core alone will not provide more than one or two satisfying games. Pretty sure I've spent at least twice that even with a friend supplying terrain.

Assuming you are building two armies at once yes. Two core sets and four heroes is your 800 point factions with a little wiggle room, and is $232 before various discounts. If you DO shop for discounts you can get a LOT more toys for your $232. Basic looking terrain can be made for free, and if you shop at arts & crafts stores for paint and glue instead of at the Android's Dungeon, you could squeak by on $20 to $50 worth of craft supplies.

All it takes for reasonably immersive terrain is a green or brown blanket, a piece of blue paper cut into an irregular shape, core set barricades, and about six, baseball sized rocks from the side of the road.

If I was on a real strict budget and wanted to play two factions of Legion often and without boredom, I'd buy 3 core sets, 2 boxes of specialists, 2 commanders and 4 operatives. That's only $388 and it would take a long time to exhaust all the playstyle options there. Eventually if you got bored, $85 would get you two heavies and change the game up. Later on, $25 for Priority Supplies would mix up your missions and make the game new again.

Course I am not on such a budget and began my foray into Legion with Veers, an AT-ST, and 6 squads of snowtroopers. So maybe it's easy for me to say, since I don't have to make such choices.

On 9/25/2019 at 12:20 PM, Bobmc said:

I wouldn't want to play the game without terrain that at least attempts to look 'real.' Immersion is part of the experience.

I would estimate $300 to be an absolute minimum buy in to enjoy the game for a while. You want terrain, paint, and additional units to avoid monotony. The legion core alone will not provide more than one or two satisfying games. Pretty sure I've spent at least twice that even with a friend supplying terrain.

See, you don’t need super expensive terrain to get immersion. I offered a cheap solution above, and the most expensive part of it is your time. It’s not hard to make some stuff that looks pretty passable for terrain, as long as you’re not trying to build iconic unique structures and are going more nature/natural elements of a world.

My first game board worth of terrain was probably under $50. And I had to buy the hot glue and paint, didn’t have anything left around to start with.

$50 + 2x cores ($120ish or even less in today’s markets) + a commander or operative for each side = getting a good start for $200. Toss in an extra unit or two and say $250.... including terrain. Enough terrain for a 6x3 space mind you - you can get less material to make less terrain so scaled for 3x3. Done.

My problem isn’t budget. It’s time. And to be quite honest, I think there’s plenty of play value in just that budget. Not saying I want to stay there (I obviously haven’t and didn’t ) but it’s a great starting point.