1 hour ago, meffo said:

so you consider the timing to be part of the ability's requirement as well? that makes sense practically. i still think it would be more helpful to define ability's requirements separate from timings, though, since we already know you cannot add abilities to the ability queue unless they have a timing or have headings such as Attack: or Action:, which can also be viewed as a requirement, or in a non game term, a trigger.

Yeah, I can see an argument for keeping it separate. Although there are some which seem to include conditions in the timing, like Resistance Chewie:

Chewbacca (Resistance pilot): After a friendly ship at range 0-3 is destroyed, before that ship is removed, you may perform an action. Then you may perform a bonus attack.

Chewie's ability could have been written as "After a ship is destroyed, if it is friendly and at range 0-3, before that ship is removed, you may perform an action." But that's not very easy to read!

Quote

do you think you can decline to resolve an ability you've put in the queue even if there is no "may" in the ability? i'm guessing no.

Correct, if there's no may I don't think you can cancel it.

Quote

do you have examples of abilities with requirements (and not just timings or headings) that don't use "if"?

i mean, obviously there are abilities that cannot be resolved unless certain parameters are fulfilled in the game state, but unless they use "if" they all have timings or headings as far as i know.

There are a few that seem to have requirements as part of the timing, like Chewie above. Other than those I can't think of any.

15 hours ago, Ysenhal said:

Yeah, I can see an argument for keeping it separate. Although there are some which seem to include conditions in the timing, like Resistance Chewie:

Chewbacca (Resistance pilot): After a friendly ship at range 0-3 is destroyed, before that ship is removed, you may perform an action. Then you may perform a bonus attack.

Chewie's ability could have been written as "After a ship is destroyed, if it is friendly and at range 0-3, before that ship is removed, you may perform an action." But that's not very easy to read!

agreed. sometimes abilities don't have timings or conditions, but a combination of them or just one of the two.

15 hours ago, Ysenhal said:

Correct, if there's no may I don't think you can cancel it.

ok, but what about if a requirement is part of the ability, such as Old T or even worse, c1-p10. now, i'm not arguing that these abilities have ability's requirements, but the later part of the effects from these cards definitely have some kind of requirement, a ship has to be chosen.

"At the start of the Engagement Phase, you may choose 1 enemy ship at range 1. If you do and you are in its (front arc), it removes all of its green tokens."
"After you execute a maneuver, you must choose a ship at range 0 - 1. It gains 1 jam token."

if choosing a ship with old T or with c1-10p is considered an ability's requirement or not is a different question all together (it's easy to see why people would see c1-10ps choosing a ship as an ability's requirement, since it's a must, although i don't see that as necessary as the whole ability is mandatory).

how ever, lets say you choose a ship with either old T or c1-10p and therefore add the ability to the queue, but you use ketsus tractor beam to move a new target into old T, or you use fine tuned controls to get close enough for another ship for c1-10p. can you then change target for your ability or would it be locked in since when you built the ability queue (at the start of the engagement phase or after you execute a maneuver)?

13 hours ago, meffo said:

ok, but what about if a requirement is part of the ability, such as Old T or even worse, c1-p10. now, i'm not arguing that these abilities have ability's requirements, but the later part of the effects from these cards definitely have some kind of requirement, a ship has to be chosen.

"At the start of the Engagement Phase, you may choose 1 enemy ship at range 1. If you do and you are in its (front arc), it removes all of its green tokens."
"After you execute a maneuver, you must choose a ship at range 0 - 1. It gains 1 jam token."

if choosing a ship with old T or with c1-10p is considered an ability's requirement or not is a different question all together (it's easy to see why people would see c1-10ps choosing a ship as an ability's requirement, since it's a must, although i don't see that as necessary as the whole ability is mandatory).

how ever, lets say you choose a ship with either old T or c1-10p and therefore add the ability to the queue, but you use ketsus tractor beam to move a new target into old T, or you use fine tuned controls to get close enough for another ship for c1-10p. can you then change target for your ability or would it be locked in since when you built the ability queue (at the start of the engagement phase or after you execute a maneuver)?

As I said earlier, I don't think you choose a target when those abilities enter the queue, only when the ability is resolved. This would mean you can use the Ketsu tractor to push someone into Old T's range or use fine-tuned controls before C1-10P, provided you choose to put them into the queue in that order, but there would be no "change" of target as you only choose a target once.

E.g. If you have both Old Teroch and Ketsu, I would expect the process to go like this:

1. It's the start of the engagement phase.

2. Old T and Ketsu's abilities both read "At the start of the engagement phase, you may [do something]". Since it's the start of engagement they both go into the queue; you can choose the order since they're both your ships.

For this example, let's say you put Ketsu at the front of the queue.

3. Once everything has been added to the queue, start resolving it. Ketsu is first.

4. You may choose a ship in your mobile and front arc at range 0-1. If you do, it gains a tractor token. If you don't or there are no valid targets, nothing happens.

4a. If you just tractored a ship, resolve the tractoring.

5. Ketsu is done. Old T is next in the queue.

6. You may choose an enemy ship at range 1. If you do and you're in its front arc, it removes its green tokens. If you don't or there are no valid targets, nothing happens.

7. Done!

while thank you, @Ysenhal .

still looking for opinions from others though. a lot of people seem to think the old t - ketsu combo no longer works.

why not? how do you interpret it?

The problem is, determining what is a requirement follows the logic of proper reading. Which tips too much on the side of "spirit of the rules" instead of the "letter of the rules" which people prefer to follow. Which would be fine if there wasn't so much FFG support for official events.

So everyone can give their opinions/interpretations on what they think qualifies as a requirement, base on how they read. Ideally, everyone's interpretations would match up, but that isnt the case. For me personally, it have to judge on a ability-by-ability basis. There isnt any one specific format that can be clearly pointed out and say "its structured like this always".

For the Ketsu & Old T combo..

I personally think it does still work. Nether one, from my point of view, have requirements to enter the queue. Only a timing, and an effect. So at the start of engagement, both are put into the queue. Then resolved when they come up in the queue.

I believe that with the new updated rules, each ship that have an ability with a requirement (like the examples of Old Teroch and Ketsu) have to verify if they can trigger the ability and choose a particular ship which they can apply their affect on before starting to resolve all the abilities from the ability queue.

So starting with the player with the initiative, he has to declare what each ship will do and measure if that particular ability can be or not activated. All those that can, are then added to the ability queue. Then the player without the initiative proceeds doing the same for his ships.

Due to this, I believe that if Old Teroch does not have a ship to which he can apply his ability at the start of the engagement phase, he cannot then add his ability to the ability queue. At least that ishow I see it.

If the ability would not require to choose a ship (For instance if it would say "at the start of the engagement phase all ships who have you on their front arc remove all of their green token") then it could be added.

57 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

I personally think it does still work.

I don't understand why Ketsu/Teroch ever worked. But then I have always tried to argue against combo-wing. I certainly don't think it works with the new language in the Rules Reference. Why does the Rules Reference need the new language if we're just supposed to do it the way we're doing it? Why does the Rules Reference need the new language if you just put it all in the queue and decide it as you come to it?

43 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I don't understand why Ketsu/Teroch ever worked. But then I have always tried to argue against combo-wing. I certainly don't think it works with the new language in the Rules Reference. Why does the Rules Reference need the new language if we're just supposed to do it the way we're doing it? Why does the Rules Reference need the new language if you just put it all in the queue and decide it as you come to it?

why don't you understand that they ever worked - and what's your interpretation of why they do not work?

your questions have a simple answer, because of the nantex tractor chain. that's the example used in the new paragraph of text at least.

otherwise, who knows? did the rules reference need a new update? who decides that? what's the intention? we can only speculate.

how do you view "ability's requirement"? how would you define the term? i'm looking for rules interpretation here.

1 hour ago, Mikhs said:

I believe that with the new updated rules, each ship that have an ability with a requirement (like the examples of Old Teroch and Ketsu) have to verify if they can trigger the ability and choose a particular ship which they can apply their affect on before starting to resolve all the abilities from the ability queue.

So starting with the player with the initiative, he has to declare what each ship will do and measure if that particular ability can be or not activated. All those that can, are then added to the ability queue. Then the player without the initiative proceeds doing the same for his ships.

Due to this, I believe that if Old Teroch does not have a ship to which he can apply his ability at the start of the engagement phase, he cannot then add his ability to the ability queue. At least that ishow I see it.

If the ability would not require to choose a ship (For instance if it would say "at the start of the engagement phase all ships who have you on their front arc remove all of their green token") then it could be added.

that's interesting. so you view it as you have to check that an ability can resolve fully before you can add it to the queue? the whole ability is a requirement for the ability, even if the word "may" is used.

what about if old teroch has a ship that he can choose and you then go on to resovle the queue - and ketsu moves another ship into range of old t. could he then choose the other ship instead when his ability is resolved?

also, you don't think you can combo erratic c1-p10 with fined tuned controls to choose a ship other than yourself to get a jam token by boosting in before resolving erratic c1-p10?

5 minutes ago, meffo said:

why don't you understand that they ever worked - and what's your interpretation of why they do not work.

If the ability doesn't do anything absent some other effect resolving then you've not got all the things you need to put it in the queue.

25 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

If the ability doesn't do anything absent some other effect resolving then you've not got all the things you need to put it in the queue.

Except that we know from the RRG that abilities can be added to the queue even if they can't be resolved:

Quote

While [Jake Farrell] resolves his ship ability, he performs a red [boost] action. This triggers his pilot ability and his ship ability again. He chooses to add his pilot ability first, then his ship ability.

The ship ability is added to the queue, even though it cannot be resolved as Jake is stressed and has already performed a boost action.

44 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

If the ability doesn't do anything absent some other effect resolving then you've not got all the things you need to put it in the queue.

i'm not following. how did you come to that conclusion and what in the rules reference did you base it on?

26 minutes ago, Maui. said:

Except that we know from the RRG that abilities can be added to the queue even if they can't be resolved:

The ship ability is added to the queue, even though it cannot be resolved as Jake is stressed and has already performed a boost action.

I was in the middle of writing this exact thing when you posted

Requirements to resolve an ability, are not the same as the requirements to add it to the ability queue.

37 minutes ago, Maui. said:

The ship ability is added to the queue, even though it cannot be resolved as Jake is stressed and has already performed a boost action.

In the rules reference example the ship ability that Jake can "not do" because he is stressed was added to the queue when Jake was not stressed and could perform the ability. It could be resolved when added to the queue.

The rules reference example for Jake starts with barrel roll. Not boost. That example does not say you can put things without a "legal" target into the queue.

The example from the rules ref.

Jake barrel rolls ---> < pilot ability instance 1 > and < ship ability instance 1 > are now the queue.

Jake resolves < pilot ability instance 1 > ----> Jake does a focus action . < ship ability instance 2 > and < ship ability instance 1> are now in the queue. Jake can still resolve a boost action.

Jake resolves < ship ability instance 2 > -----> Jake does a red boost action and receives a stress token. < pilot ability instance 2 > and < ship ability instance 1 > are now in the queue despite < ship ability instance 1 > now being unresolvable -- it was already in the queue.

Jake resolves < pilot ability instance 2 > -----> Jake gives a focus action to squadmate within range . <squadmate ship/upgrade ability> and < ship ability instance 1 > are now in the queue.

Jake can not resolve < ship ability instance 1 >

------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 hour ago, meffo said:

i'm not following. how did you come to that conclusion and what in the rules reference did you base it on?

I'm basing it on the card. Teroch's ability isn't broken into two parts. You put the entire ability into the queue. If you do (i.e. choose a target,) you check the arc requirement, target removes tokens. That is the ability. All that goes into the queue. You need an antecedent for "it" or you don't have an effect for the queue.

It isn't a "chance" to do that that goes into the queue.

43 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

Jake resolves < ship ability instance 2 > -----> Jake does a red boost action and receives a stress token. < pilot ability instance 2 > and < ship ability instance 1 > are now in the queue despite < ship ability instance 1 > now being unresolvable -- it was already in the queue.

You got this part a little off.

Jake actually does a red boost action and adds < pilot ability instance 2 > and < ship ability instance 3 > to the queue.

as described in this part, " While he resolves his ship ability, he performs a red action. This triggers his pilot ability and his ship ability again. He chooses to add his pilot ability first, then his ship ability."

That's why at the end of the example, " The only abilities remaining in the ability queue are two instances of Jake Farrell’s ship ability. Since he is stressed, he cannot perform an action so neither ability has an effect and the ability queue empties."

4 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

You got this part a little off.

Jake actually does a red boost action and adds < pilot ability instance 2 > and < ship ability instance 3 > to the queue.

as described in this part, " While he resolves his ship ability, he performs a red action. This triggers his pilot ability and his ship ability again. He chooses to add his pilot ability first, then his ship ability."

That's why at the end of the example, " The only abilities remaining in the ability queue are two instances of Jake Farrell’s ship ability. Since he is stressed, he cannot perform an action so neither ability has an effect and the ability queue empties."

To add something else.. Notice that He performs a red Boost action, which triggers both abilities, and both are added to the queue. So his ship ability (the one that lets him perform a Red Boost) is added, Even though he just performed a boost and hes not allowed to boost again. But its added to the queue DESPITE that. Further reinforcing that the ability queue doesn't care if an ability can be resolved or not, so long as the trigger for it is valid.

Well, Jake Farrel's pilot ability work even if stressed because his ability applies to any ship at 0-1 not necessarily himself.

Also, any ship can be granted a free action, another different thing is that they can use it or not, like with Full Throttle, the Tie Defender/Naboo Fighter get the free action after performing a speed 3-5 maneuver, however they may be unable to perform it due to having stress.

And yes, from what the new rules update specifies, it seems as if now each player have to decide and check their triggers before you actually proceed activating them. Once all the triggers are added to the queue (Let's say after the "at the start of the engagement phase" triggers) you then start activating them, and once you start activating them, yuo cannot add another trigger with that timing, only things that can trigger afterwards as reactions.

2 hours ago, Frimmel said:

In the rules reference example the ship ability that Jake can "not do" because he is stressed was added to the queue when Jake was not stressed and could perform the ability. It could be resolved when added to the queue.

The rules reference example for Jake starts with barrel roll. Not boost. That example does not say you can put things without a "legal" target into the queue.

The example from the rules ref.

Jake barrel rolls ---> < pilot ability instance 1 > and < ship ability instance 1 > are now the queue.

Jake resolves < pilot ability instance 1 > ----> Jake does a focus action . < ship ability instance 2 > and < ship ability instance 1> are now in the queue. Jake can still resolve a boost action.

Jake resolves < ship ability instance 2 > -----> Jake does a red boost action and receives a stress token. < pilot ability instance 2 > and < ship ability instance 1 > are now in the queue despite < ship ability instance 1 > now being unresolvable -- it was already in the queue.

Jake resolves < pilot ability instance 2 > -----> Jake gives a focus action to squadmate within range . <squadmate ship/upgrade ability> and < ship ability instance 1 > are now in the queue.

Jake can not resolve < ship ability instance 1 >

you're skipping the part where he resolves his ship ability and goes on to add his ship ability (as well as his pilot ability) to the queue again.

page 20, Extended Examples:

"Ability Queue Example #1

Jake Farrell (A-wing) has the pilot ability “After you perform a (barrel roll) or (boost) action, you may choose a friendly ship at range 0–1. That ship may perform a (focus) action.” He also has the ship ability “After you perform an action, you may perform a red (boost) action.”

Jake Farrell activates and performs a (barrel roll) action. At this point, both his ship and pilot ability trigger. He chooses the order to add them to the ability queue, adding his pilot ability first, then his ship ability.

Pilot ability -> Ship ability

While resolving his pilot ability, he can choose a friendly ship at range 0–1. He chooses himself, and then performs a (focus) action. This triggers his ship ability again. Now he adds the second instance of his ship ability in front of the first instance of his ship ability.

While he resolves his ship ability, he performs a red (boost) action. This triggers his pilot ability and his ship ability again.

Pilot ability -> Ship ability -> Ship ability

He chooses to add his pilot ability first, then his ship ability. While resolving his pilot ability again, he chooses a friendly Phoenix Squadron Pilot (A-wing) at range 1. The other A-wing performs a focus action and its ship ability triggers. This is added to the front of the ability queue.

Phoenix Squadron’s Ship ability -> Ship ability -> Ship ability

Phoenix Squadron Pilot resolves its ship ability and performs a red (boost) action. The only abilities remaining in the ability queue are two instances of Jake Farrell’s ship ability. Since he is stressed, he cannot perform an action so neither ability has an effect and the ability queue empties."

so, according to FFGs examples, you can indeed add abilities to the queue that cannot be resolved at all. jake cannot boost more than once a turn and cannot perform actions while stressed, yet two instances of his ship ability managed to get added to the ability queue, in the first instance even though one was already there and so he would have been unable to resolve the second one - and in the second instance while one ship ability had just been resolved and another one was still in the queue while he was stressed.

the other example is also interesting, but maybe not very relevant even though it deals with old teroch specifically.

2 hours ago, Frimmel said:

I'm basing it on the card. Teroch's ability isn't broken into two parts. You put the entire ability into the queue. If you do (i.e. choose a target,) you check the arc requirement, target removes tokens. That is the ability. All that goes into the queue. You need an antecedent for "it" or you don't have an effect for the queue.

It isn't a "chance" to do that that goes into the queue.

oh? it isn't "broken in two parts"? lets see what the rules reference says about abilities, from page 2.

"ABILITIES
Some of the text on condition, damage, ship, and upgrade cards describe abilities. These abilities consist of a timing and an effect."

timings and effects are clearly different things in game terms. the big problem we're currently having that's causing all this discussion, is that this part of the rules reference is missing a description of what constitutes an ability's requirement.

please note that the wording is different for many abilities - and my interpretation is that the word "may" and anything that follows is part of the effect and not a requirement. at least that's certainly my stance on vaders (crew) ability, so i'm just trying to be consistent in my interpretations.

i'll interpret your interpretation (dodgy thing to do, that) as if you view an ability's requirement as being able to resolve all of the ability at the time it's added to the ability queue to be able to add the ability to the ability queue. is that a correct interpretation of your interpretation?

the question remains, though. what are other peoples views on what constitutes an ability's requirement?

1 hour ago, joeshmoe554 said:

You got this part a little off.

Jake actually does a red boost action and adds < pilot ability instance 2 > and < ship ability instance 3 > to the queue.

as described in this part, " While he resolves his ship ability, he performs a red action. This triggers his pilot ability and his ship ability again. He chooses to add his pilot ability first, then his ship ability."

That's why at the end of the example, " The only abilities remaining in the ability queue are two instances of Jake Farrell’s ship ability. Since he is stressed, he cannot perform an action so neither ability has an effect and the ability queue empties."

Alright. Conceded.

Not sure how that makes an argument for Teroch working with Ketsu. His ability is still all the text. You pick before tractor, you check arc before tractor, the target will remove tokens or not remove tokens irregardless.

It is confusing because you have two ways of ending up in the same state if Ketsu would tractor the enemy ship away from Teroch's ability. Resolve Teroch first, or Teroch's removal is in the queue and done after the tractor. We don't have to wrap our heads around why Teroch would still remove the tokens if we resolved Ketsu first and moved the enemy ship out of arc because we just do Teroch first.

The basic is, both Ketsu and Teroch's ability's are added to the queue as they were both triggered by "At the start of engagement phase". Since there are not conditional qualifiers needed to add it to the queue, that trigger is the only thing the queue cares about. Doesn't matter if either of their abilities can be resolved in that moment. Both are added, in which ever order the player wants to add them. Then resolved in that order. Its only during the resolution in the queue that the "... you may choose... " becomes relevant and is checked to see if it can resolve. If it can be resolved, it is. If not, it has no effect, and is emptied from the queue.

9 minutes ago, meffo said:

i'll interpret your interpretation (dodgy thing to do, that) as if you view an ability's requirement as being able to resolve all of the ability at the time it's added to the ability queue to be able to add the ability to the ability queue. is that a correct interpretation of your interpretation?

Mostly. I think that things that need a target need that target when added to the queue. I think if you take something in isolation without any other effects and if you can't do it, it can't go in the queue. That's the heart of the Nantex example.

I have to concede the argument that the ability queue example suggests "illegal targets" can go in the queue. But there is still a target for < ship ability instance 3 >. Folks are arguing for putting Teroch in the queue without a target.

I would also like to make clear that I think the Jake example in the rules reference does not go with the added language. < ship ability instance 3 > that joeshmoe554 points out should not be added to the queue. I think it is a case of doesn't matter if it is in or out since it doesn't resolve. And the example was likely not intended to be a ruling precedent for the new language about abilities entering the queue.

As to abilities consisting of a "timing and an effect" that's both right? In that example with Jake all of those things they put into the queue are two things. Trigger for the ship ability, and the effect of the ship ability.

1 minute ago, Lyianx said:

The basic is, both Ketsu and Teroch's ability's are added to the queue as they were both triggered by "At the start of engagement phase". Since there are not conditional qualifiers needed to add it to the queue, that trigger is the only thing the queue cares about. Doesn't matter if either of their abilities can be resolved in that moment. Both are added, in which ever order the player wants to add them. Then resolved in that order. Its only during the resolution in the queue that the "... you may choose... " becomes relevant and is checked to see if it can resolve. If it can be resolved, it is. If not, it has no effect, and is emptied from the queue.

It is all of Teroch's ability that has to go into the queue. A timing and an effect right?

If you aren't choosing an enemy ship you don't have an effect. Your effect is dependent on if you do i.e. choose. If you don't have an effect you don't have an ability to put in the queue since abilities are a timing and an effect.

6 hours ago, meffo said:

also, you don't think you can combo erratic c1-p10 with fined tuned controls to choose a ship other than yourself to get a jam token by boosting in before resolving erratic c1-p10?

I think you can do it. I’ve been using “erratic chopper” like this:

If choosing a ship R0-1 is a requirement (not 100% sure) you choose yourself, and add the ability to the queue. You also add the fine tuned controls ability to the queue, and decide to do that first. So you can use ftc to boost or BR to R1 of an enemy, and when erratic chopper triggers, you chose the enemy ship you just got close to.

At least that’s how it was ruled in the HST I went to, using chopper on Mace.

4 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

If you aren't choosing an enemy ship you don't have an effect. Your effect is dependent on if you do i.e. choose. If you don't have an effect you don't have an ability to put in the queue since abilities are a timing and an effect.

Quote

At the start of the Engagement Phase , you may choose 1 enemy ship at range 1. If you do and you are in its [front arc], it removes all of its green tokens.

The only thing the ability queue cares about, is the red text above. The rest (green text) is the ability resolution, which the game, when putting it into the queue, doesnt care about if its possible or not. Checking to see if a ship is in range 1, or in your front arc, is checking for resolution, which is ignored when putting it into the queue. The ship being in range, or in arc, is not a condition or requirement to trigger the ability (trigger = putting it into the ability queue).

The moment you you start to work though the green text, you are attempting to resolve the ability, which does not happen until it comes up in the ability queue.

51 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

Mostly. I think that things that need a target need that target when added to the queue. I think if you take something in isolation without any other effects and if you can't do it, it can't go in the queue. That's the heart of the Nantex example.

I have to concede the argument that the ability queue example suggests "illegal targets" can go in the queue. But there is still a target for < ship ability instance 3 >. Folks are arguing for putting Teroch in the queue without a target.

I would also like to make clear that I think the Jake example in the rules reference does not go with the added language. < ship ability instance 3 > that joeshmoe554 points out should not be added to the queue. I think it is a case of doesn't matter if it is in or out since it doesn't resolve. And the example was likely not intended to be a ruling precedent for the new language about abilities entering the queue.

As to abilities consisting of a "timing and an effect" that's both right? In that example with Jake all of those things they put into the queue are two things. Trigger for the ship ability, and the effect of the ship ability.

It is all of Teroch's ability that has to go into the queue. A timing and an effect right?

If you aren't choosing an enemy ship you don't have an effect. Your effect is dependent on if you do i.e. choose. If you don't have an effect you don't have an ability to put in the queue since abilities are a timing and an effect.

very interesting. i view the heart of the nantex example as the requirement of a certain game state ("if you are tractored") needs to be fulfilled in order for the ability to go into the queue. i do see where you're coming from with that more clearly now though, thank you.

well, we can always speculate why the rules where changed or why new language was added and how it interacts with the old rules. in believe the intent was always for abilities with a requirement ("if you are tractored", "if you fully execute a maneuver", "if you have no green tokens", basically a requirement of a certain game state to be fulfilled) to not be able to enter the queue and the ability queue to be constructed at a single point in time. it just wasn't clear enough before the last update. therefore, all the old examples should still be relevant.

there is no such thing as a trigger, jake's ability simply has a timing and an effect. the timing being "after you perform a (barrel roll) or (boost) action," and the effect being "you may choose a friendly ship at range 0-1. That ship may perform a (focus) action.". the timing does not need to go into the queue, it's simply an indicator of when the ability can be put into the queue. when the queue gets to that ability, the effect is resolved.

there is still noting indicating you have to make all the choices associated with an effect before putting that ability into the queue, unless you're using the interpretation of the rules and cards that you (and probably a lot of others) do. as in, the whole ability most be pre-resolved and checked if it's working before adding it to the queue, since that's what ability's requirement means according to that interpretation.

again, i'm of a different opinion, but thanks again for sharing your interpretation in detail.

38 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

The only thing the ability queue cares about, is the red text above. The rest (green text) is the ability resolution, which the game, when putting it into the queue, doesnt care about if its possible or not. Checking to see if a ship is in range 1, or in your front arc, is checking for resolution, which is ignored when putting it into the queue. The ship being in range, or in arc, is not a condition or requirement to trigger the ability (trigger = putting it into the ability queue).

The moment you you start to work though the green text, you are attempting to resolve the ability, which does not happen until it comes up in the ability queue.

this is pretty much my interpretation. it's worth noting it's just an interpretation, though. we won't know until we get answers from FFG.

14 hours ago, meffo said:

this is pretty much my interpretation. it's worth noting it's just an interpretation, though. we won't know until we get answers from FFG.

Perhaps, but its a pretty solid one given the example of Jake in the appendix, unless they really screwed that up, which isn't out of the realm of possibility. But given how convoluted the ability queue can be, it feels like they knew how it worked was kinda complicated, which is why they have 2 fleshed out examples of how it works. Its probably not something they can easily (or rather, efficiently) list a bunch of bullet points or straight up rules in a paragraph in under the "Ability" subtext on pg 3.