When you are brainstorming new lists that you'd like to make competitive, what is your method and what things do you consider? Many people are different and hopefully we can learn things from each other.

Do you start with objectives then work from there?

Do you start with your admiral then build around that?

How do you begin choosing what upgrades make the cut on your list?

First I decide if I want to run a squadron-based fleet or ship-based fleet. If it is a squadron-based fleet than I first get a big ship like the mc80 command cruiser and than add expanded hanger bay, than I choose my commander and officer and more upgrades, than the rest squadrons, and last objective. So for me it is.....

1. Decide what type of fleet I’m running.

2. Flag ship and it’s commander and upgrades.

3. Other Ships and there upgrades.

4. Squadrons.

5. Objective.

49 minutes ago, ThatAsianKid1 said:

When you are brainstorming new lists that you'd like to make competitive, what is your method and what things do you consider? Many people are different and hopefully we can learn things from each other.

Do you start with objectives then work from there?

Do you start with your admiral then build around that?

How do you begin choosing what upgrades make the cut on your list?

1)First thing is look at the meta. If I expect 2-ships and Rieekan Aceholes, then I know I need robust anti-squad.

2)From there, I look at what I’m comfortable with. Which pattern do I know well which matches well against those meta lists. Personally, I run a Defiance/Yavaris list a lot that brings heavy squads and Biggs to blunt Alpha strikes. So I sketch out something with Yavaris, Defiance, squads, + else. I might pick a commander here.

3)I get into the details here. I’ll have an idea of good objectives through familiarity with the list archetypes usual play style. I’ll focus on the crux of the list and then work out details. If I haven’t picked a commander, then I’ll pick one now. That Yavaris/Defiance list I like is pretty ambivalent about what commander to use. So depending on other details, I may take Cracken, Rieekan, Dodonna, Ackbar, Agate, or Leia.

4-50)Then go go play the list and iterate through all of this a few times.

I jeed need to reiterate that a list type you know is important. An okay list you are comfortable with is more useful than a net-list you’ve never run.

Sometimes it's an overall concept ("A Raddus drop my opponent just can't hit," "A Kuat that just won't die," "Boarding Troopers twice in a row to discard tokens.")

Sometimes it's an archetype (Sloane, Demo last-first, Raddus bomb, second player with Strategic.)

Sometimes it's a specific combo that seems good/fun ("Raiders under Vader can take Boarding Troopers," "Ketsu with X-wings," "Screed HIE ISD2.") Then you build the rest of the fleet to make that work. For example, the Raiders set up a Cymoon Avenger. Hera could make Ketsu's X-wings become a rogue ball, or Screed could get more HIE or ACM support.

In terms of upgrades, some stuff (like ECM on larges, TRC on CR90As, Exrax on Hammerheads) is just a default choice. I might think about other options later, but there needs to be a pretty good reason to run anything else.

Other things, like HIE on an Interdictor or Spinal Armament on an ISD2, get tacked on later if I have the points. Good, but expensive.

The upgrades shouldn't have a matchup where they're useless unless the fleet has a glaring weakness to be compensated for, which can be concerning anyway. I consider the SSD an exception because "insurance upgrades" like DCO or Kallus are cheap and cover most of such a fleet.

Some cards are just good enough to be throw-ins when there's nothing else the list needs, including initiative. Stuff like Suppressor in a Sloane list willing to go second, Chimaera when you have token generation and 30 points left over, DCaps on a Gozanti or Slicers over Comms Net.

And finally, some cards only see the light of day when you have a specific plan for them. Repair Crews is just outclassed by Comms Net unless you're running an SSD or doing something weird, etc.

Start with a fun idea ("No Demo, no Rhymer", "7th Fleet is fun", "QTC is interesting", "SSD is... come on, it's SSD!"). Spell out what exactly the fleet is going to do and what is it's the strong point. Optimize the fleet based on the current meta. Playtest. Do extreme playtesting (major tourney qualifies ). The fleet is ready.

I think of what ships or ship combo i haven't flown in a while start there adding upgrades and Admiral then decide if i want squadron defence or squadron attack followed by matching up which objectives will punish my opponent the most. I never build for a bid if i have one its because i cant add anything to my fleet that will make it better

I typically come up with a combination of ships is like to run first or ships and squadrons. (Example: 4 Neb Bs and a pelta.)

The upgrades (axillary Shields and all four titles)

If it's not a squad focused fleet I may pick a squad screen here.

Then I adjust and rework the rest of my points and figure out what kind of a bid I need/want.

Then I pick objectives to suite my fleet

For me, there are 3 starting points:

Your favorite ship/a ship you want to build around

Your favorite upgrade (commanders included)

Objective selection

The first 2 are self explanatory. You choose that thing, then build up your fleet around abusing that ship/upgrade/ability.

An example of the last one, recently for me at least. I got tired of yellow objectives. I thought "man, I wish I could leverage a defensive objective. Cause that gets picked almost every time. And CO and PIC are getting old. AND I dont want to fly too many squads." So I picked hyperspace assault and made that objective just absolutely horrible for my opponent by designing my fleet around having that later deployment.

As far as what to cut once you have your fleet, it depends on the fleet and the ship. I fly raiders with just ex racks on them frequently, because with just a concentrate fire dial and token, those things punch HARD above their weight, but also it's only 47 points. Flexible, maneuverable, and, in a lot of cases, expendable if it means I can use it to block/force a bad maneuver. It started with ord experts and ex racks, but those 4 points could have gone somewhere else, i.e. to the thing that's going to pounce once the raiders are blocking something.

I start with ideas most of the time.

sometimes I play around with “how do I get this underused upgrade to work”

lots of lists are slight modifications of other lists that I know work.

I generally build mine by:

Theme/Win Con (heavy squad, no squad, msu, SSD, etc)

Commander

Ships & upgrades

Squadrons

Objectives

Final check

Almost always when selecting a theme I have another area already in mind like the commander, flagship, or objectives. When selecting the remaining ships and upgrades, including auto includes, they all get the test of "how does this improve/exploit the win con or how does it deal with a weakness and what other options are you giving up in this slot for this upgrade?" About this time ships will get swapped in and out until I find the right configuration. Unless I am building heavy or purposely around squads they mainly get added as filler. Objective selection usually sees a few tweaks to my upgrades or a ship swap. The final check looks that there is dice mitigation, how/if my win con works, and what my biggest weakness is & if there is something to address that.

Lately we have decided to use commanders and ships we normally do not use. We have found some fun and interesting setups this way.

I start with an interesting card.

I figure out what I want to do with it.

I work out what objectives allow the card to shine that way.

I combo up till I have a full skewed list.

I have a few things I look at:

- Command Value

- Total Shield Value and positions.

- Fleet Hull Value

- Optimal Batteries

- Total Squadron Value

- Upgrades

These items are what help me chose a ship, its role in my fleet, how it is going to fly in the fleet, and a few other things. An example is the Arquitens Light Cruiser, my personal favorite to use for the Hammer role of the Hammer & Anvil. The ALC has a total shield value of 8 with a Hull of 5, its optimal arcs are the sides with 3 red dice per side, allowing it to be gunning from almost turn 2 (sometimes) until the end of the game. I normally throw EA on them to get a 4th dice out the sides, though I am tempted to try Spinals for a funnier double arc. My lead ALC normally has Yularen and Centicore on it, so my other ships can command squadrons, through it.

On 9/19/2019 at 7:35 AM, FoxOmega44 said:

An example of the last one, recently for me at least. I got tired of yellow objectives. I thought "man, I wish I could leverage a defensive objective. Cause that gets picked almost every time. And CO and PIC are getting old. AND I dont want to fly too many squads." So I picked hyperspace assault and made that objective just absolutely horrible for my opponent by designing my fleet around having that later deployment.

Yeah, I tend to build for 2nd player, so I start with objectives.

Usually I pick an objective I want to try out, and then build a list for it. Then work out which other two objectives pair the best with it to give my opponent a pile of bad choices, at which point you iterate on the overall list to take advantage of those two objectives as well (hopefully without damaging too badly the objective you started with). This has been made a bit easier by the RitR objectives!

On 9/19/2019 at 1:31 PM, Vergilius said:

I start with ideas most of the time.

sometimes I play around with “how do I get this underused upgrade to work”

lots of lists are slight modifications of other lists that I know work.

This is the method I find myself using recently. Right now I'm feverishly tinkering with a Konstantine build so the poor guy can get some table time

On 9/20/2019 at 11:34 AM, xanderf said:

Yeah, I tend to build for 2nd player, so I start with objectives.

Usually I pick an objective I want to try out, and then build a list for it. Then work out which other two objectives pair the best with it to give my opponent a pile of bad choices, at which point you iterate on the overall list to take advantage of those two objectives as well (hopefully without damaging too badly the objective you started with). This has been made a bit easier by the RitR objectives!

I can't build for first player lists. I'm too much of an upgrade fiend and try to utilize most of my points. Plus I've seen bids in the high 20s low 30s and have no desire to try and outbid numbers like that.