16 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:

Rose as a pod is equally viable in this list. Arguably more than her crew card on chewie to be honest.

You could put PerCo on Chewie and now have 6 points spare.

That might be a Greer instead of blue squad. Alternatively advanced optics for her or blue squad.

Rose Crew has been of enough help that I am somewhat dubious of the change. I also have doubts about her ability’s consistency as the A-Wings are going faster than her and moving oddly thanks to their mobile arcs. L’ulo in particular prefers getting behind people. Chewie will try to stay in range three of the others (the pod in particular) but the base size and turret means it can and sometimes must veer off, leaving the pod on its own in some enemy arcs. But that is speaking from a position of not having played Rose pilot. My concerns might not be as big a deal as I currently think and while I think Rose Crew is worth it in the build, the alternative of Perceptive Copilot is decent.

Worth a try, but on paper, I’m still more in favor of Finn pilot and Rose Crew.

35 minutes ago, Octarine-08 said:

I'm kinda tempted to try that swapping Lulo for optics Greer/Tallie and put Optics on the Blue.

I think that has potential. Greer has probably my favorite RZ-2 ability and Advanced Optics is a good investment for the frame.

I ended up going with L’ulo for his higher damage ceiling. I felt the extra die was important on a couple of engagements, the most recent in memory was when he was used to harass Whisper and still do damage past her dice and tokens. The loss of defense when stressed is always a concern, but I also think feeds into Chewie.

2 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Rose Crew has been of enough help that I am somewhat dubious of the change. I also have doubts about her ability’s consistency as the A-Wings are going faster than her and moving oddly thanks to their mobile arcs. L’ulo in particular prefers getting behind people. Chewie will try to stay in range three of the others (the pod in particular) but the base size and turret means it can and sometimes must veer off, leaving the pod on its own in some enemy arcs. But that is speaking from a position of not having played Rose pilot. My concerns might not be as big a deal as I currently think and while I think Rose Crew is worth it in the build, the alternative of Perceptive Copilot is decent.

Worth a try, but on paper, I’m still more in favor of Finn pilot and Rose Crew.

I think that has potential. Greer has probably my favorite RZ-2 ability and Advanced Optics is a good investment for the frame.

I ended up going with L’ulo for his higher damage ceiling. I felt the extra die was important on a couple of engagements, the most recent in memory was when he was used to harass Whisper and still do damage past her dice and tokens. The loss of defense when stressed is always a concern, but I also think feeds into Chewie.

Fair, another alternative was Vi Moradi with C3PO. Probably becomes the only reliable support ship, giving you maneuver info and coordinates. But that is slightly more costly.

It also works as a draw to trigger Chewie.

15 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:

Fair, another alternative was Vi Moradi with C3PO. Probably becomes the only reliable support ship, giving you maneuver info and coordinates. But that is slightly more costly.

It also works as a draw to trigger Chewie.

Could also help with Chewie’s red actions. Coordinate a rotate, do a blue, regular action, and his rage action (if applicable). Has merit. The pod’s limited blues make me a little worried that it can’t keep up with Chewie for long, but it might have already popped by then.

On 9/19/2019 at 7:12 PM, SabineKey said:

Okay. But if you would indulge me, I would be curious as to what you would present as other options.

You got some good suggestions already, but I would change more than just Finn. But that's not really the topic of this thread.

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

You got some good suggestions already, but I would change more than just Finn. But that's not really the topic of this thread.

Fair enough.

I took this list to the 2nd part (3 rounds) of a 2 list tournament.

A medium deal

(36) Greer Sonnel [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 41

(38) Cova Nell [Resistance Transport]
(2) R4 Astromech
(19) Leia Organa
(1) Heroic
Points: 60

(29) Finn [Resistance Transport Pod]
(8) Perceptive Copilot
(1) Heroic
Points: 38

(55) Nien Nunb [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
(5) Pattern Analyzer
Points: 61

Total points: 200

Went 2-1 with it. Beating obi, mace and 2 torrents and a sear swarm and losing to ani, obi and a torrent.

I feel Finn is totally worth 38 points. 2 focus tokens still makes him pretty surviveable, and even before the nerf I would sometimes hang onto a strain or two (when using Leia to do a white k turn was often better then doing a blue).

Also as has been mentioned, rolling a single dice makes it easier to trigger heroic, which is rather funny when it works to negate damage (and clear your strain as you defended).

On 9/18/2019 at 5:32 PM, ficklegreendice said:

For 30 points with heroic he's still just hilariously powerful

I mean, THIRTY POINTS!!!

IMHO they just need to remove the talent slot. First thing is Finn is not a pilot (the one thing the first movie established). So why does he have a talent slot because he is a main character? The transport pod needs to stay cheap as it is the only Resistance ship that is <30 points. Although they still need a 21-25 point range ship.

Remove talent and it is fine. Some people complain about Finns add blank ability becoming worthless. There are gas clouds which still work. Just because you make an ability more situational doesn't make it disappear.

2 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

IMHO they just need to remove the talent slot. First thing is Finn is not a pilot (the one thing the first movie established). So why does he have a talent slot because he is a main character?

no

it's because he's a big deal

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

no

it's because he's a big deal

Only in The Last Jedi and we all know how that turned out.

35 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

IMHO they just need to remove the talent slot. First thing is Finn is not a pilot (the one thing the first movie established). So why does he have a talent slot because he is a main character? The transport pod needs to stay cheap as it is the only Resistance ship that is <30 points. Although they still need a 21-25 point range ship.

Remove talent and it is fine. Some people complain about Finns add blank ability becoming worthless. There are gas clouds which still work. Just because you make an ability more situational doesn't make it disappear.

Don’t see the need. As of yet, I haven’t been hearing the talent slot being a problem.

So I decided to put Finn on the table today and get some battlefield experience. Due to various listbuilding factors, I ended up running him with Heroic, C-3PO, and Pattern Analyzer, clocking in at 41 points. I set him up in a corner, facing 45 degrees inward and set to pass right through all the obstacles.

I ended up being really happy with the build and flight plan. The only maneuvers he took were straights, except for a K-turn on the final turn. I double-Calculated a few times, and Calculate-Coordinated several times. Honestly I thought he was more useful and consistently less awkward than a Cova Nell in the same list; he managed to toss some key actions around while still boosting his own offense to surprising levels with just the one Calculate. There was only one moment in the game when I wished I’d had Perceptive Co-Pilot on board to flip two eyeballs instead of one, but I’m not sure it would’ve been worth giving up C-3PO’s ability to Coordinate.

We’ll see if I can get some more games in with him and form a more solid opinion, but I think he’s still pretty solid.

5 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Don’t see the need. As of yet, I haven’t been hearing the talent slot being a problem.

That is the problem, Finn's ability is not that good unless it is combined with Heroic in which it becomes more of a guarantee that it triggers and thus making the combo worth more than its points by adding in guaranteed results.

Thing is people just say well up Finn's squadron cost but that ties in with another problem and that is that the Transport Pod needs to be low in point cost because that is the Resistance biggest discrepancy as they have no ship <30 points without the transport pod. Finn can do without the talent, keep the point cost of the pods down.

Does a wounded ant run faster with 4 legs or 5?

Hmmmmm..........

Yesterday, I took Finn to a tournament in this list:

Tallissan Lintra (36)
Snap Shot (7)
Crack Shot (1)

Cova Nell (38)
Snap Shot (7)
R4 Astromech (2)

Finn (29)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)
Perceptive Copilot (8)

Nien Nunb (55)
Snap Shot (7)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

In the first match, Finn was killed in the first round of shooting. The first shot was from Seevor who stripped one of his tokens. And then - if I remember correctly - I had to spend the second focus for a double-eye-roll to get no damage. I didn't have to take the strain. And then there came some additional shots from 3 Cartel Marauders. The New FAQ didn't matter at all. The old Finn would have died just the same.

In the second match, Finn was left alone and could put some hurt into the opponents list. His 3 hits on a range 3 shot against a Rey with Hull Breach was her demise.

In the third match, Finn blocked a Falcon on a rock and put some damage into another ship. Then between the rock and the other ships, there was nowhere to go without bumping and he got killed without any tokens.

In the fourth match, the main problem was, that 2 ARCs shot after Finn. The Jedis just left him alone while he had his tokens. But I had to decide how many tokens I wanted to spend on offence. They got 1 or 2 shots in against a Finn without any tokens and put him to 1 hull. Everything else he evaded. Finn was a star in this match as he put a lot of damage into the ARCs.

So in the end i went 3:1 and Finn was an important part of my wins. In my matches the new FAQ didn't matter at all. I don't think Finn got even shot once while having a strain token. In my opinion Finn is still a deal, not that big anymore but still ok for his points. You just have to fly him a bit more cautiously. Keeping him a bit further back, presenting other targets, or alternatively presenting him if you want to get some heat away from another ship (Hey, if they shoot 2-3 shots into Finn and let Nien go to the endgame, I'm totally fine with that)

what was the nerf?

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

what was the nerf?

Strain is now not removed after you defend, but after you roll 1 fewer defense dice while defending. This is pretty impactful for Finn. He used to be able to add an Eye, then clear the strain immediately after defending, but cannot anymore. Now, he'll have to defend another time and roll only 1 green die rather than 2, or else take a blue move, to clear his strain.

4 hours ago, cybu said:

I don't think Finn got even shot once while having a strain token.

In that case nothing actually changed for your Finn in these games. Either the change is then meaningless on its own, or your games are not suitable to gauge the impact.

7 hours ago, Marinealver said:

That is the problem, Finn's ability is not that good unless it is combined with Heroic in which it becomes more of a guarantee that it triggers and thus making the combo worth more than its points by adding in guaranteed results.

Thing is people just say well up Finn's squadron cost but that ties in with another problem and that is that the Transport Pod needs to be low in point cost because that is the Resistance biggest discrepancy as they have no ship <30 points without the transport pod. Finn can do without the talent, keep the point cost of the pods down.

Why would Finn having a Talent slot mean ALL pods need to go up? L’ulo went way up on his own, leaving his fellow RZ-2s behind. Finn could do the same, as necessary.

still not seeing the need for him to lose the Talent slot.

Finn is still good. The strain change takes his ability from S++ to S+.

Heroic is better on Finn than it is on other pilots, but that doesn't mean he needs to lose his talent slot. There are plenty of pilots who can use upgrades more efficiently than other pilots. And while Finn is pretty good, isn't super powerful; at the end of the day he's still sitting on maybe the worst dial in X-wing and just 4 HP. He's not winning games by himself; he's just a really cost-efficient piece. I think a 2-3 point increase would be enough to bring him back to the field, at least enough so that he's no longer an auto-include in all Resistance lists.

16 minutes ago, Maui. said:

... at the end of the day he's still sitting on maybe the worst dial in X-wing ...

The Lambda would like to argue that point.

And I suppose these days, so would the Jumpmaster. 😛

The Lambda is the true OG of bad dials. (Now sliiiiightly mitigated by a wiffy 2 dice back gun)

3 hours ago, DR4CO said:

The Lambda would like to argue that point.

And I suppose these days, so would the Jumpmaster. 😛

Don't forget the escape craft, especially if it's doing its job as a coordinator. The Pod at least can mitigate.

11 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Why would Finn having a Talent slot mean ALL pods need to go up? L’ulo went way up on his own, leaving his fellow RZ-2s behind. Finn could do the same, as necessary.

still not seeing the need for him to lose the Talent slot.

I didn't say that. Finn with his talent slot is too much for his point cost. In order to correct that there is one of three options.

1. Increase the cost of Finn
2. Increase the cost of Heroic
3. Remove the talent slot from Finn

I don't like 1 because I believe the transport pod should be the lowest cost ship starting around 25 points then going up, with Finn it is closer to 30. I also don't like 2 because Heroic is an upgrade that isn't super good like 1st ed PTL so there is only one pilot where it starts to go into broken territory. So I prefer the 3rd one is the best option. You can drop Finn back down to 25 points even without the slot. You can't just add points to every card that wins and expect that to solve the meta.

19 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

I don't like 1 because I believe the transport pod should be the lowest cost ship starting around 25 points then going up, with Finn it is closer to 30.

This is just incorrect thinking. The pilot card should cost what it should cost. If synergy with other cards or the raw power of the pilot's ability means that cost is significantly more than its comrades piloting the same ship, so be it.

In a very real way, Finn is similar to Lulo and Ric in that he's cheating by not even flying the same ship as the other Pod pilots. Because of his ability, Finn's a lot closer to a 3-attack, 3-agility ship than he wants us all to think. Being noticeably more expensive than the others because of that is entirely fair (see what happened to Lulo, and what is almost guaranteed to happen to Ric in January).

28 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

I didn't say that. Finn with his talent slot is too much for his point cost. In order to correct that there is one of three options.

1. Increase the cost of Finn
2. Increase the cost of Heroic
3. Remove the talent slot from Finn

I don't like 1 because I believe the transport pod should be the lowest cost ship starting around 25 points then going up, with Finn it is closer to 30. I also don't like 2 because Heroic is an upgrade that isn't super good like 1st ed PTL so there is only one pilot where it starts to go into broken territory. So I prefer the 3rd one is the best option. You can drop Finn back down to 25 points even without the slot. You can't just add points to every card that wins and expect that to solve the meta.

But even if Finn goes up in cost, the other pilots will still start where you think they should. Finn already isn’t the cheapest option for the Pod. Him going up still means you have three pods fitting nicely in your around 25 point range. So, option 1 doesn’t actually prevent pods from doing what you want.

I’m still not seeing why removing the slot is the better option.