18 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

Elusive is always a good “what the ****” talent for me. Its saved Guri’s bacon more times than her shiny *** would like to admit.

Elusive and Advanced Optics are a pretty fun combo. Haven’t used it on Guri yet, but it has been a good change for my E-Wing experiments.

4 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

Han gunner was simply too cheap to begin with. Then increasing his cost and marauder title and boba fett all at once was overkill and has nerfed him out of the game all together. I feel sad that I bought the scum falcon to get Han gunner.

He was one of the few enablers of double mods for scum. When I look at his cost and then look at the Jedi, I feel extra sad.

Sad that such an icon has been effectively removed from the faction...

A big problem is that they can make new stuff balanced with the current game for the newer factions, but for the three old factions, the way they originally printed ships is how they will remain forevermore. Unfortunately, Scum is getting the spotlight because everything released after Wave 1 has been one of those bad ships. And as a straight re-release from the conversion kits, they can't actually help their bad designs.

Z-95s and TIE fighters are bad ships if you don't have swarm support like the Empire does (excepting pilots like Blount and Seevor who can hit above their weight class), which is why you never see the rebels field these either (well, that and they aren't Hyperspace legal or in 2nd Edition boxes yet). With Drea getting huge nerfs every time she overperforms with things that aren't Zs, she'll never get to play with them now. And while I have an idea for a happy medium between the OP old Jumpmaster dial and the garbage fire new one, that can never be rectified now...

It doesn't help that Scum is so very low on linked actions and force, severely hurting its action economy (outside taking a ship that should not be playable on its own, but that's more a flavor issue).

2 hours ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

Elusive is always a good “what the ****” talent for me. Its saved Guri’s bacon more times than her shiny *** would like to admit.

Good on 4Lom as well.

And -not Scum- Ibtisam Arc with Chopper and Elusive. Cheapest unlimited regen in game, and also no disarm!

5 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Ah right, before I forget snapshot exists

New Squadron

(30) Ahhav [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 37

(30) Captain Seevor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(3) Fearless???????
Points: 33

(25) Mining Guild Surveyor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 32

(25) Mining Guild Surveyor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 32

(25) Mining Guild Surveyor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 32

(25) Mining Guild Surveyor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 32

Total points: 198

MGT Surveyor is one if the cheapest potential Snap shot carriers in the game. Now, Snapshot is imho not good for the game, sad it returns.

200:

Ahhav (30) Snap Shot (7) Ship total: 37 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Captain Seevor (30) Snap Shot (7) Ship total: 37 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Torani Kulda (48) Snap Shot (8) Contraband Cybernetics (3) Hull Upgrade (3) Ship total: 62 Half Points: 31 Threshold: 5

Or leave off hull on her to ensure moving first.

Mining Guild Surveyor (25) Snap Shot (7) Ship total: 32 Half Points: 16 Threshold: 2 Mining Guild Surveyor (25) Snap Shot (7) Ship total: 32 Half Points: 16 Threshold: 2

was one of the builds I made upon knowing Snap shot cost. Stagger them and unleash a hailstorm of Snap. Seevor can jam folks before they move. Ahaav gets 3 dice on Snap against larger bases. Torani procs even on Snap. I made also a build with Graz, as he also gets 3 dice if snapping from behind. But that's difficult to achieve. One of the problems with the list is relatively low firepower, and you might want to proc Snap shot on low Inis, but you have 2 at ini3, and 1 at ini4.

Anyways, having Snap shot in the game will lead to even more passive mod squads, more Jedi, Taps, Kylo, Vader etc. As force users can mod their defense against snap.

14 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

having Snap shot in the game will lead to even more passive mod squads, more Jedi, Taps, Kylo, Vader etc. As force users can mod their defense against snap.

Force mods are already prominent and imo warping the meta bringing imbalance to the game. lists without passive mods are just getting pushed out of competitive play which has created an if you can't beat them join them situation.

scum's time at the top was very fleeting, it might come around again but I'm expecting a long time between drinks. No new scum toys on their way. Card packs and points adjustments are their only hope.

Scum still has a passive mods in its Moldy Crows and r5-p8

+/- 4lom (though expensive with advanced sensors) plus situationally like Frost (made better by immediate stress from debris drop)

So, we can get over passive mods. The issue facing these platforms (minus mux) is easily fixed: they're too expensive at the base level!

When you fly against 3 inquisitors you see how great passive mods on multiple ships is. Two jedi in a 4 ship list are also tough to beat. Scum has nothing close to this in terms of managing dice variance. Moldy crow is one ship and its 18pts. Maul crew is very good but is 12pts on a ship that is already pricey. Asajj is nice but also priced a bit too high for scums only force user. Playable but still not as good as ketsu who is cheaper.

so we have a moldy crow (too expensive), maul (already pricey) and asajj (priced a bit too high)

so hey, we agree!

knock them points down!

(not to mention other ships that get up to aether delta-bs in price despite not being jedi...firespray!)

Seriously, the spray may be a SUPER Arc, but is it +22 points (104th vs bounty hunter) super?

13 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Seriously, the spray may be a SUPER Arc, but is it +22 points (104th vs bounty hunter) super?

The spray is great, but that's a lot of points.

10 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Seriously, the spray may be a SUPER Arc, but is it +22 points (104th vs bounty hunter) super?

Possibly...

Slots (Bounty Hunter):

Slots (104th):

I actually think the Firspray is a pretty decent bargain considering the dial, tallon rolls, +1 shield and +1 Agility, +1 rear firepower, white boost and red reinforce instead of a red barrel-roll...

The ARC is a terrific gunship. But the ‘Spray is considerably more survivable and maneuverable.

1 hour ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

I actually think the Firspray is a pretty decent bargain considering the dial, tallon rolls, +1 shield and +1 Agility, +1 rear firepower, white boost and red reinforce instead of a red barrel-roll...

The ARC is a terrific gunship. But the ‘Spray is considerably more survivable and maneuverable.

on paper its a work horse. there must be a reason the generic fire spray isn't seeing the table. The name pilots esp boba are still viable but they eat so many points ur supporting ships are few and less impactful. firesprays are one of my fav scum ships but repositioning high agility ships can simply run circles around them because of the strong support imperials and republic ships can run alongside them. would love to see them cheaper as well as marauder around 2pts.

2 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

there must be a reason the generic fire spray isn't seeing the table.

I think its because it takes up roughly 1/3rd of a list, is initiative 2 and "lost" the talent slot as part of the transition to second ed. I ran triple when it was 66pts and they were not bad. 1-2 of them with lighter squad mates (2x bare + 2x HLC scyks was a favorite of mine) can do some work, but really can't maintain.

6 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

I think its because it takes up roughly 1/3rd of a list, is initiative 2 and "lost" the talent slot as part of the transition to second ed. I ran triple when it was 66pts and they were not bad. 1-2 of them with lighter squad mates (2x bare + 2x HLC scyks was a favorite of mine) can do some work, but really can't maintain.

feels like it could be a solid blocker and chip in good damage at range one but I agree at that price/a third of ur squad points u need it to be better at what it does. as a ship its really gone off the radar, only seeing it a bit in hyperspace paired with guri and lando escape craft and occasionally boba + emon

boba remains the best firespray pilot even tho his cost limits what else you can run with him. something like this might be ok. competitive but not top tier.

Boba Fett (85)
Fearless (3)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Marauder (6)

Ship total: 102 Half Points: 51 Threshold: 5

Black Sun Assassin (48)
Crack Shot (1)

Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 3

Black Sun Assassin (48)
Crack Shot (1)

Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 3


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z103X121WWW54WWWW153WY150X116WWWWY150X116WWWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Even I think Scum are in weak spot right now, almost always there are sleepers. Not talking about things OK (like Teroch, Seevor etc) but about hidden gems. Since I consider myself better list-builder than a player, I love digging those gems. In Extended it was Ketsu (discovered at Adepticon) but now Hyperspace is the challenge.

Maybe it's premature, but I think I found next gem, HS this time:

He's name is Krassis Trelix

Loaded with Ion Cannon (recently added to HS) and Snap shot is a Nightmare to Jedi. Double moded - double arc Ion is super powerful.

Snap is debatable, just playing HS (tops today) and in course of 5 games did 1 dmg and sucked some force. Now bulidng the Squad I would drop Snap in favour of Proximity and some crack shots. But remember - Krassis shots Snap from both arcs, so maybe I just been unlucky

Krassis is King, rest of squad up to your imagination (you can fit Teroch/Guri or even Fenn/Teroch if you like without Snap shot).

I play now:

Krassis control 2

(68) Krassis Trelix [Firespray-class Patrol Craft]
(5) Ion Cannon
(8) Snap Shot
Points: 81

(30) Captain Seevor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
Points: 30

(28) Cartel Spacer [M3-A Interceptor]
(5) Ion Cannon
Points: 33

(56) Old Teroch [Fang Fighter]
Points: 56

Total points: 200

7 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

I think its because it takes up roughly 1/3rd of a list, is initiative 2 and "lost" the talent slot as part of the transition to second ed. I ran triple when it was 66pts and they were not bad. 1-2 of them with lighter squad mates (2x bare + 2x HLC scyks was a favorite of mine) can do some work, but really can't maintain.

I think it’s like the Trandoshin, Shadowport Hunter, Freighter Captain, and other Scum generic pilots of their trademark big ships. “Sure... you can field them. But if you have the points, go for the named. You have the points. Trust me, axe a few upgrades and just take Boba/Bossk/Asajj/Ketsu/Kath/Krassis/etc... No seriously, just drop the Ka’ato and his shield upgrade and concussion missile, and...”

I may have had that conversation a few times.

6 hours ago, Oldpara said:

Maybe it's premature, but I think I found next gem, HS this time:

He's name is Krassis Trelix

I am trying to find ways to make Krassis and/or Koshka Frost do some things (primarily for Hyperspace at the moment)....
After having been beat down severely from the Republic Ys with Ion, I am toying with the idea of Ion with Krassis too.
Krassis with other Ion support could be a slow killer.
Unfortunately, when I build, I have a tendency to load things on and so can't really get there... I have been playing with the idea of Ion Krassis, a loaded-for-stress Koshka + filler... Seevor is obvious, but Sunny Bounder for the giggles.
Maybe I should go up to 4 ships, see what catches my fancy there.

In relation to Snap vs Force, I would be ok with that.
If you are draining their passive mods to dodge a poorly modified attack, then they are less likely to spend them later on lower probability events (say All Blank 1 Focus on attack) and/or they are running dry on the next turn or turn after.
Could be worth keeping a track of though (especially compared to a Proximity Mine).

....

Unrelated:
Tried 4 Skull Squadron Fangs this afternoon. Amusing when it works, falls to pieces when it doesn't. Good for a casual game or to simplify your options.

On 9/20/2019 at 4:54 PM, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

Kimogila (all are pretty decent), Shadowcaster (best scum ship right now imo... followed closely by the star vipers)

I literally laughed out loud at this statement. Kimos are subpar aside from Torani who is just okay. Shadowcaster is also subpar aside from Ketsu.

On 9/20/2019 at 5:47 AM, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

Black Sun Syndicate. Cost 0 pts. Scum only.

This ship can equip one free modification.

How about an upgrade similar to Tactical Relay? Different crime organization affiliation? Black Sun, Hutt Cartel, Crimson Dawn, and Syndicate are all options.

Hutt Cartel: When a ship with a Illicit Upgrade does X, it may X.

Black Sun: When a friendly ship defends, if the attacker is in your bullseye, you may X to do X.

Syndicate: When a friendly ship with an illicit Upgrade is destroyed, friendly ships at range 0-1 of that ship may regain a non-recurring charge on an illicit.

Crimson Dawn: Something, something, dark side...

Scums just win Belgian National today (Seevor, Torkil, 3 Black Sun Ace)

46 minutes ago, zimut-X said:

Scums just win Belgian National today (Seevor, Torkil, 3 Black Sun Ace)

It is one of only two good lists that Scum has, the other being Ketsu, Teroch, X.

35 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

It is one of only two good lists that Scum has, the other being Ketsu, Teroch, X.

Looks like it might be Torkil/Seevor + and not just Torkil/Seevor/Marauders. Torkil/Seevor/Boba made top 4 in Italy. Not sure of the exact build. Not liking what it bodes for Mux and Seevor come January...

I’m going to say something very controversial: Boba Fett is still a very good deal.

Yes he’s crazy expensive, especially with his traditional loadout, but the amount of passive mods he has available make him a monster. Small sample size, but his average performance has been well above average even since the nerf.

The trick is that he doesn’t have great wingmen because Scum filler is pretty poor and 2-ship aces are really hard to play well. That aside, Fett is among the strongest pilots in the game with Han, RAC, and Dash nearby.

34 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Looks like it might be Torkil/Seevor + and not just Torkil/Seevor/Marauders. Torkil/Seevor/Boba made top 4 in Italy. Not sure of the exact build. Not liking what it bodes for Mux and Seevor come January...

I'll agree with this, I took torkil, seevor with torani and old T to the grand nationals at Nova 3 weeks ago, and made it as far as top 32 with them. Seevor and Torkil are a really good pair.

Seevor will likely go up in points soon. Probably to 32. Why? Because he is one of scums most efficient pilots and ffg have a track record of nerfing the best scum pilots. What they should do is reduce the cost of the other mining guild pilots by a point or two.

21 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

Seevor will likely go up in points soon. Probably to 32. Why? Because he is one of scums most efficient pilots and ffg have a track record of nerfing the best scum pilots. What they should do is reduce the cost of the other mining guild pilots by a point or two.

Yeah, I absolutely agree. 30pts, with no need for any other upgrade. And your return is an Initiative-3 Tie Fighter that auto-jams a ship he’s attacking or being attacked by, so long as he’s not in their bullseye. Even if you could somehow cram a free primary-arc Hotshot Gunner onto a Mining Tie, Seevor would still be my preferred pick. 30pts a is a ******ed steal.

I can’t see him going up too many points, however... He is, afterall, just an I-3 Tie. But the reason they’d adjust him and not all the others, is because the others are all priced... decently... And Seevor’s the one that stands out as being a bargain.