31 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

In an attempt to bring this thread back on the rails...

I think there's a lot of sleeper potential in mid-range Scum fleets; that is, Initiative 4 or 5 pilots with really quirky abilities. Keep one "pocket ace" on the table, but build a squad that allows some of the generics to become more considerable threats. For example, I recently took inspiration from @Oldpara's comment on generic Z-95s and Deadman's Switch, which is the way I've typically used them in 2.0, and made a more meaty list with three of them and Dalan Oberos (StarViper). It used three Pirates, but if I want to go a little leaner on Dalan or on the Zs, I can upgrade them to Black Sun Soldiers with Intimidation and Deadman's Switch, as below:

Z-95-AF4 Headhunter - Black Sun Soldier - 32
Black Sun Soldier - (27)
Intimidation (3)
Deadman’s Switch (2)

Z-95-AF4 Headhunter - Black Sun Soldier - 39
Black Sun Soldier - (27)
Intimidation (3)
Proton Rockets (7)
Deadman’s Switch (2)

Z-95-AF4 Headhunter - Black Sun Soldier - 39
Black Sun Soldier - (27)
Intimidation (3)
Proton Rockets (7)
Deadman’s Switch (2)

StarViper-class Attack Platform - •Dalan Oberos - 90
•Dalan Oberos - Elite Bounty Hunter (54)
Outmaneuver (6)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Electronic Baffle (2)
•Virago (10)
Shield Upgrade (8)

Total: 200/200

Ekhm...

You're proposing 90pts Dalan Oberos with almost 40 points Z95. It not gonna to work, I promise you.

1 hour ago, feltipern1 said:

In an attempt to bring this thread back on the rails...

I think there's a lot of sleeper potential in mid-range Scum.

There's some potential in mid-range Scum, byt that list isn't it. The proton rocket Zeds will die without firing them once, Dalan is too expensive, and the deadman's switches are going to either backfire directly, or force you to fly so you're easy pickings, being already divided you're ripe for the conquering.

Could try running a quasi-swarm though, like this:

Swarm over asteroids

(33) Unkar Plutt [Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug]
Points: 33

(40) Serissu [M3-A Interceptor]
(2) Autoblasters
(1) Marksmanship
Points: 43

(34) Quinn Jast [M3-A Interceptor]
(6) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
Points: 40

(28) Outer Rim Pioneer [Escape Craft]
Points: 28

(30) Captain Seevor [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
Points: 30

(26) Overseer Yushyn [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
Points: 26

Total points: 200

2 hours ago, Oldpara said:

Ekhm...

You're proposing 90pts Dalan Oberos with almost 40 points Z95. It not gonna to work, I promise you.

Oh, I know - it'll be fun to try it, though! I never concern myself with tiers, and I'm not about to be competitive with this thing. It's casual flying and if it does some fun stuff, I'm happy. But I didn't particularly want to read another few pages of assessing the merits of various beverages, so I thought I'd stick it up there anyway.

However, the purpose of the thread was to discuss whether Scum are the weakest faction, and this is a win either way. If I try it and it does something, it may prove that Scum are not as weak as we are discussing. If I try it and it does nothing, then it proves that Scum are weaker. Either way, we're talking about Scum, not children's toe cheese or various fruits. Both might fall into the category of scummy, but not X-Wing Scummy

Fair point. Better read about 90pts Dalan.

My go big build for Dalan is

Daredevil, Virago, Adv Sensors, Shield Upgrade, and Hull Upgrade.

There’s something magically hilarious about a ship with the hit points on par with a ******ed Y-Wing or B-Wing, that has 3 Agility and can tap-dance across the board.

18 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Look, he's good but he isn't Anakin good.

Rather, he's Anakin bad.

escape craft has really fallen off the radar, esp in extended format. You guys think FFG will buff its points a bit to get it back on the table? I hope so... even if its just L337. popular opinion was the nerf of tactical officer from 2 up to 6pts wasn't going to prevent scum players from using the escape craft... turns out its rare you see it anymore.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Rather, he's Anakin bad.

What you did there... I approve!

42 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

escape craft has really fallen off the radar, esp in extended format. You guys think FFG will buff its points a bit to get it back on the table? I hope so... even if its just L337. popular opinion was the the nerf of tactical officer from 2 up to 6pts wasn't going to prevent scum players from using the escape craft... turns out its rare you see it anymore.

I had some really positive and surprisingly consistent experiences using L3 in the escape craft but I just dont use tactical officer anymore.

It was Moldy Torkil with engine upgrade, L3, Unkar, an I2 Khiraxz and I2 Starviper.

If Tactical officer was 2 points i'd have taken it over the engine upgrade.

Hyperspace Scum are sorta limited don't you think?

few archetypes seem playable versus what the other factions are bringing to the table.

outside of Fett and guri or 4 star vipers or 4 fang fighters I'm not seeing anything else that's worthy of representing... am I missing something?

I guess I should be thankful scum even has these options? not sure what ffg can even do here other than drop the points on some of the other hyperspace legal ships. I play exclusively extended (have played a single hyperspace event) so I'm not impacted by these limitations but other players must be.

9 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

outside of Fett and guri or 4 star vipers or 4 fang fighters I'm not seeing anything else that's worthy of representing... am I missing something?

I've had ok luck with twin Bounty Hunters w/Perceptive Copilot + Proton Bombs and a Shielded Juking Seevor. Still Hyperspace is fairly rough right now, without some of the big Scum hitters like Turkil, Drea, and the Cartel Marauders.

This weekend, I took the following to a Hyperspace Trial:
Boba Fett - Slave One
Fenn Rau - Crack Shot
Serissu - Marksman Autoblasters.

199 points

3 Wins, 2 Losses... slightly above middle of the pack and therefore matching my goal (I always set myself the 50% +1 goal.... and I achieved exactly that this weekend).
Had 3 games that came down to final round dice rolls (lost one of those) and one loss due to sub-good flying choices (....and Crack/Advanced Optics SFs are pretty good, especially if you let them choke your lanes and get Fenn in behind them... both of my losses were to the First Order with those guys making the bulk/all of the list).
Need more practice, need to be better flying. My positioning was pretty woeful in at least two games.

I decided on the day that I would drop Crack Shot from Boba... The bid was relevant twice (once gave me the bid, once forced a meaningful dice-off), but I also would have got a Crack Shot opportunity maybe once or twice per game. Not sure which direction is better.

Fenn did Fenn things (in both good and bad ways), and changing it to Predator might have been as effective.... not sure if I would change it. He died too cheaply too often, but he is also fairly new to me (I don't think I had tried him this edition until two weeks ago). Given that, less points is better?
Serissu (in this configuration) was.... interesting. The Autoblaster is a nice bonus dice if Bullseyed, and an Enormous threat if she is in your side arc. Range 1 Bullseye Marksman Autoblaster is Amazing. However.... more often than not, she was (with the way I was flying) rolling 2 dice and/or repositioning to give Fenn and Boba a better run and/or defensive re-rolls. I don't remember losing her all day... maybe once? Having giant targets that aren't her helps a lot.
Boba was his big bludgeoning self. Was quite happy with Slave One and the Firespray in general. He was forced to carry a few times after I lost Fenn too cheaply. I think that the target painted on him is less prominent than Fenn (or at least the way I flew made it seem that way). Perhaps I could fly him more aggressively, perhaps trying to engage with him before Fenn instead of "whoever gets there first"?

Have rediscovered that Re-Rolls (in mass) are Amazing.
Boba routinely had two re-rolls in defense due to enemy proximity +/- Serissu... and, as always, Boba Re-Rolls in attack are generally pretty good.
Serissu saved Fenn on more than one occasion, including one of those "final dice rolls" games.
Serissu generally gave herself one additional dodge per game.
If you have a spare 43 points, consider Serissu with Marksman/Autoblaster. She is probably not an upper-level ship, but is good/Good filler for ships she can keep up with (Fenn is not always one of those.... though, maybe if she has Afterburners....).

Not sure if I am going to continue flying it, but it felt alright.
Somebody with more practice with Boba and Fenn could probably do a lot more with it.
If you drop Fenn for Teroch, you lose a bit of punch and defense but gain a lot of toys, as well as everyone being the same initiative.... that could have helped a little. Not sure that is worth it.

14 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

Hyperspace Scum are sorta limited don't you think?

few archetypes seem playable versus what the other factions are bringing to the table.

outside of Fett and guri or 4 star vipers or 4 fang fighters I'm not seeing anything else that's worthy of representing... am I missing something?

I guess I should be thankful scum even has these options? not sure what ffg can even do here other than drop the points on some of the other hyperspace legal ships. I play exclusively extended (have played a single hyperspace event) so I'm not impacted by these limitations but other players must be.

One of our locals (Wichita) just won a Hyperspace Trial (21 players) in Edmund, OK with Boba/Fenn.

I believe he builds it with a Fat Boba and Fenn with Outmaneuver, and around a 17 point bid.

I flew Fenn + Pred, Teroch + Pred and Tel with intimidation, contraband cybernetics, dengar crew and hull upgrade to a 4 -0 win at our local tourney 19 players. I did dodge any jedi aces or droid swarms. But faced resistance 4 ship, Torkil and cartels, and Nantex, also a Fenn Guri and MG TIE that I handed init to.

I have been flying Fenn quite a bit recently so Fenn and Teroch are always a solid base to work from. Dengar crew was fairly useful. Not as much as I thought though, but needs more testing.

I hope the JM5K gets some sorta buff but not sure what exavtly.

We got the party bus next wave right?

Fenn (Pred) + Guri (adv sens, elusive) +black sun assassin (crack shot) was solid as well. (3-1)

I went 4-2 and scored dice at 50 person HST this weekend running Boba + Koshka.

My two loses were vs 1&3 overall swiss players and it was my first time ever playing the list.

There's something there.

Thursday and Friday I flew my casual Back Attacks & Token Hacks list:

Genesis Red (34)
Marksmanship (1)
Autoblasters (2)
Ship total: 37 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Torkil Mux (37)
Moldy Crow (18)
Ship total: 55 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3

Old Teroch (56)
Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 2

Graz (46)
Outmaneuver (6)
Ship total: 52 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 3

Total: 200
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z133X125WW232Y114XWWWWW156Y98XWY120X126WWWWW&sn=BackAttacks %26 TokenHacks&obs=

It did quite well overall. Not a competitive setting this time, but it was fun. Scum gimmicks are always the draw for me, and I had fun with this style of play.

On Thursday, by fluke all three opponents had Ghosts. I'll tell you what, Old Teroch did some work against their tokens! Reinforce? Gone. Focus? Gone. Lock? Let me arc-dodge you. And rolling 5 outmaneuver dice at range 3 vs no defense was pretty awesome.

Friday's casual tournament was neat. The guy running things decided to be cheeky and say "Okay, since scum are in a terrible spot, if you fly scum you can make an extended list with an additional 35 points. Otherwise you build a normal 200 point hyperspace list". I added Elusive Seevor to great effect. I was tempted to upgrade Torkil to Palob, but I felt I had enough token elimination with Teroch, and Torkil is honestly pretty effective. I did pretty well in most of my matches, but the final match was against another effective scum fleet and I lost on points. Despite the wide points advantage for scum, a Republic list came in third after my final opponent and me, so the rankings were Scum, Scum, Republic, and the rest.

It was a super, super casual night, not meant to draw any conclusions about the actual state of scum. But I had fun!

Well, I went 4-2 with Boba + Koshka at the Worlds LCQ and then 4-3 in Day one with it. My last game was vs UUUU and lost by 35 points. I lost Boba and Koshka was full health. Killed one uwing and halved another.

Other losses were to 5xSF and 4 x T70. Also lost to and incredibly well flown Jendon + 2 x Inquisitor + Soontir.

It struggles vs high health lists with a decent defensive profile. Just can't keep up with the damage race and the trading of points.

I love the list though.

The Firespray is an incredibly powerful ship. I'm more and more wanting to fly Emon/Andrasta. I wish you could decloak into a bomb drop but that would be so busted.

Still, control plus bombs is very strong. Kavil + ICT is amazing. Sense Assajj with her stress and tractors would go well with an Ion cannon on Emon and then bombs and mines galore...

Krassis Trelix with Tractor or Ion also seems fun. I know people say IGs are weak but it's so hard to argue with that stat line. Mainly we need I4 to be a little more meaningful. I honestly think it's almost there but the Jedi and Duchess are pretty abusive, and some other empire aces too...

For all you naysayers, this list was top MOV on day 1A at worlds. It is much more creative than anything I've built, but I really like it.

L3-37 (Escape Craft) (26)
Ship total: 26 Half Points: 13 Threshold: 2

Torkil Mux (37)
Engine Upgrade (2)
Moldy Crow (18)

Ship total: 57 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 3

Captain Seevor (30)
Crack Shot (1)

Ship total: 31 Half Points: 16 Threshold: 2

Cartel Marauder (38)
Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 3

Unkar Plutt (33)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Tobias Beckett (2)
Seismic Charges (3)
Cloaking Device (5)

Ship total: 48 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 3


Total: 200

1 hour ago, gadwag said:

For all you naysayers, this list was top MOV on day 1A at worlds. It is much more creative than anything I've built, but I really like it.

L3-37 (Escape Craft) (26)
Ship total: 26 Half Points: 13 Threshold: 2

Torkil Mux (37)
Engine Upgrade (2)
Moldy Crow (18)

Ship total: 57 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 3

Captain Seevor (30)
Crack Shot (1)

Ship total: 31 Half Points: 16 Threshold: 2

Cartel Marauder (38)
Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 3

Unkar Plutt (33)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Tobias Beckett (2)
Seismic Charges (3)
Cloaking Device (5)

Ship total: 48 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 3


Total: 200

It is an impressive toolbox, to be sure. But you will have to fly like your hair is on fire, practice obsessively, and then get lucky come the day, to get anywhere close to the results posted.

It's not that Scum can't - rather, it's that you have to work three times as hard as any other faction in order to achieve. Which becomes tiresome.

Congratulations and mad respect to the person who flew this, absolutely! But a single result is not proof of anything.

8 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I wish you could decloak into a bomb drop but that would be so busted.

You can- you choose what order to resolve your Systems Phase triggers, so first decloak and then bomb.

3 hours ago, gadwag said:

For all you naysayers, this list was top MOV on day 1A at worlds. It is much more creative than anything I've built, but I really like it.

You can see his R6 match here, starting at 9.12.-

Unkar doing work!

On 10/13/2019 at 11:05 PM, Vespid1311 said:

This weekend, I took the following to a Hyperspace Trial:
Boba Fett - Slave One
Fenn Rau - Crack Shot
Serissu - Marksman Autoblasters.

199 points

After rediscovering how good multiple re-rolls are, I've been trying to come up with a way of making Boba's defense Hilarious (when it works).
Basically, Stealth Device Boba seems pretty good with Serissu in tow. At R3, 4 Dice Boba should be safe from all but the most consistent/numerous shots (Serissu is a bonus) and he can also shrug off a half decent amount at close range. If you get a little lucky, you keep the Stealth Device for multiple shots. If you don't get to dodge anything with it.... well....

Today's variation:
Boba - Crack Shot, Slave One, Cybernetics and Stealth Device
Serissu - Marksman Autoblasters
Talonbane - Crack, Cybernetics and Afterburners.
200 points.

Was a little concerned about dropping from Fenn to Talonbane, but Bane has his advantages:
- Is still basically I5 Fenn with slightly less repositioning (has to move fast to use a Boost, but at least that can be done whilst stressed), albeit arguably more tanky at R2 and significantly less at R1.
- Is cheaper
- Afterburners into Focus/Lock/Roll is pretty good because you are not linking to a Red Action
- Cybernetics is Pretty Good, especially on that 4K-Afterburner-Action move.
- All I5 is Pretty Good for potential movement shenanigans
- Less concern for Serissu trying to keep up with Talonbane (when compared to the guided missile that is Fenn)

Three rounds in a casual tournament setting and I pulled three wins, though I had some Super Hot Attack Dice at times (Talonbane seemed to roll 4+ hits when necessary) and the occasional opponent defense/Critical Hits not cooperating (I shouldn't be able to 2-Shot a focused T70 unless both my Cracks align... and probably not even then).
Did not face an I6... so I still have not shaken that particular feeling yet.

I did get the magical 3-Dodge-Everything at R1 with Boba and Serissu nearby only once (though once or twice at R2+), but it still felt fairly good.

I managed twice to get the Cybernetics-whilst-already-stressed Tallon Roll/K Turn surprise manoeuvre, and Cybernetics in general helped out both Boba and Talonbane a lot.

Not sure if this list is better than that with Fenn, but it bears considering.

***

There are ways to make Boba more defensive, but at the cost of Firepower and increasing the burden onto Boba.

You can drop to Old Teroch instead of Talonbane.
You get the opportunity to Strip the opponent's tokens.

Consider also IG88-C (Boost into Evade).
You can fit Serissu and IG-C with a Stealth Device/IG-D Crew Boba.... and that is literally it. Probably not worth it.
However, you can also get a Stealth Boba with IG-D crew, IG-C and a Coordinate Boat an Escape Craft with points to spare (14 points if you use L337).
Onus is still on Boba to deal damage, and you don't have Serissu backing you up, but you get a Coordinate for (probably) reposition/Evade and whatever action you can achieve normally.
Again, I do not like the drop in Firepower here.... but IG-C does make for additional Tanking when Boosting (something that I find I do a lot when getting Boba into an engagement) and interesting coordinate options. Double Calculate Boba also seems pretty good.

38 minutes ago, Ikka said:

You can- you choose what order to resolve your Systems Phase triggers, so first decloak and then bomb.

You can not decloak and drop a device in the same phase (it is specifically written in to the Cloak rules).
However, an interesting thing can happen if you have the Cloaking Device fail.... that happens during the Planning Phase... meaning you can Decloak in the Planning Phase and then drop a Device in the Systems Phase.

2 hours ago, Ikka said:

You can- you choose what order to resolve your Systems Phase triggers, so first decloak and then bomb.

This was already stated by @Vespid1311, but the specific prohibition against doing this is in the Rules Reference document, p. 8.

11 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

This was already stated by @Vespid1311, but the specific prohibition against doing this is in the Rules Reference document, p. 8.

Yeah, had to re-read the rules. Never impacted me as i don't fly anything that cloaks/bombs normally.